Help with Brew Shop CM Still collection rate

[mesuite77]

Hi all, this is my first post here. Have been reading for the last month or so as I try and learn how to use the still that I have. I have a brew shop CM still. I know that it has its inherent problems, however it is my first still and I borrowed it from a mate just to try out distilling. It is currently using ceramic rings as packing. I am looking at changing this to copper mesh at some point, just haven't done it yet.

I have been a home brewer for 10+ years and do all grain brewing so I will eventually be moving towards doing grain mashes for whiskey however to get the hang of using the still I thought I would do a neutral first. I have fermented 2 x 25L batches of wash and stripped them using the still in detuned 'pot still' mode as detailed in the Better Operation of a Brew Shop CM Still (Novice Guide). One of the washes used was made using Essencia Super 6 yeast with 5kg of sugar as recommended by my brew shop. The other was done using bakers yeast and one of the recipes found here on this site. I ended up with about 9.5 litres of low wines at 41%. So with no further ado, to my question

I put my low wines into the still yesterday to start my spirit run. As the low wines heated up I turned up the cooling with the intent of knocking all the steam down in the reflux column. I had the cooling water flowing as quickly as I could manage without blowing the hoses off the still (I wasn't using hose clamps on the hoses). The problem was that I was never able to fully knock down the steam in the reflux tube and even with the cooling water flowing at this rate the spirit collection rate was really high. I was getting a stream of liquid coming out the condensor typically a bit thicker than a pencil lead. Occasionally it would slow to a drip getting 2-3 drops per second but it would quickly ramp back up to a pencil lead stream.

I checked and the cooling water was flowing correctly into the bottom of the condenser then out of the condensor into the bottom of the reflux jacket. I checked the temperature of the water coming out of the reflux condenser using the highly accurate 'thumb' method and the water exiting was still very cool so it still had plenty of capacity for removing heat. Can anyone provide info on what I need to do to slow down the collection rate of the still.

The spirit collected ranges from 80% down to 75% abv. I threw away the first 150ml. (I know I only really needed to throw away 100ml however due to the high collection rate I decided to play it safe and throw a bit more away. I was worried about the methanol blurring further into the spirit. From then on I collected in 500 ml lots till I ended up with 4 litres. The first jars are at 80% whilst the last collected I measured at approx 75%. All jars are currently being aired before I try and see if I can taste/smell/feel any difference between them. I continued to run the still and colected another litre. I have not yet tested the abv of this but was planning to recylce it in the next run. The temperature during collection was approx 73 degrees C and rose to 78 during collection of the last litre for recycling.

To me the temperatures aren't what I was expecting. but that's what I measured. Anyway I think that is all the information I have and will hopefully be enough to get some advice before I do my next batch, or rerun this batch if thats what is needed.

Sorry for the wall of text but hope I have enough information here to be able to get some good advice.

Cheers
Anthony

[Kifi]

Hi Anthony.

First of all, there is no methanol in your wash. Meth results from the fermentation of pectin and cellulose, not pure sugar. There is acetone and ethyl acetate though.

Your still is running too hot. Are you using a hot plate? If it's a standard US 1500W plate, suggest you get a 20A router speed control and a kill a watt meter, and bring it down to 750W for the sprit run. Good luck.

Kifi

[frozenthunderbolt]

You could also remove some/all of the ceramic saddles and replace with stainless steel pot scrubbers or copper ones - either way check with a magent before buying - neither should be magnetic. The scrubbers will induce more condensation and reflux and may help to slow the volume of vapour to your condensor a bit.
This link may be usefull to you: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 17&t=11265

[mesuite77]

Hi Anthony.

First of all, there is no methanol in your wash. Meth results from the fermentation of pectin and cellulose, not pure sugar. There is acetone and ethyl acetate though.

Your still is running too hot. Are you using a hot plate? If it's a standard US 1500W plate, suggest you get a 20A router speed control and a kill a watt meter, and bring it down to 750W for the sprit run. Good luck.

Kifi

Thanks very much for the response. I hadn't picked up on that point about methanol being from grain/fruit mash not sugar. The recipe I used for the second wash used some wheat cereal for yeast nutrients. Would this generate some methanol?

So is the rule of throwing out the first 50ml not necessary for a purely sugar based distillation? Or do you still discard because of the acetone and ethyl acetate.

The still is one of the australian Still Spirits 25L super reflux ones which have a 1380W element. I was under the impression that knocking down the steam shouldn't be too hard with this element. Oh well. Looks like I will have to get a power controller sooner than I thought. You mention a 20A router speed control. Is that a particular type of controller. I was gonig to look at something like the Sutronics Burst Fire Controller BFM240-13.

Thanks for the link Thunderbolt. Have already read that link and have made the suggested mods to my still already.

Cheers for the advice.

[Prairiepiss]

Hi Anthony.

First of all, there is no methanol in your wash. Meth results from the fermentation of pectin and cellulose, not pure sugar. There is acetone and ethyl acetate though.

Kifi

Thanks very much for the response. I hadn't picked up on that point about methanol being from grain/fruit mash not sugar. The recipe I used for the second wash used some wheat cereal for yeast nutrients. Would this generate some methanol?

So is the rule of throwing out the first 50ml not necessary for a purely sugar based distillation? Or do you still discard because of the acetone and ethyl acetate.


Cheers for the advice.

Always throw away the forshots. This is where all the nastys are. Including all the mentioned above.

[rad14701]

mesuite77, it sounds like you need to do a bit more research before proceeding much further in this hobby... All of the answers to the questions you have posed, as well as those I'm reading between the lines, will be answered through adequate research...

As for your still, if it didn't come with documentation you can find some on the manufacturers at the http://stillspirits.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow website... I know only because I have downloaded the PDF and have it as part of my ever growing library... But you will learn far more by spending time in our New Distiller Reading Lounge than you will glean from their manual... You new to know the WHY behind the answers, not simply the answers, and having a full understanding of the underlying theories is the only way to get to that point...

Good luck...

[Kifi]

Hi Anthony.

First of all, there is no methanol in your wash. Meth results from the fermentation of pectin and cellulose, not pure sugar. There is acetone and ethyl acetate though.

Your still is running too hot. Are you using a hot plate? If it's a standard US 1500W plate, suggest you get a 20A router speed control and a kill a watt meter, and bring it down to 750W for the sprit run. Good luck.

Kifi

Thanks very much for the response. I hadn't picked up on that point about methanol being from grain/fruit mash not sugar. The recipe I used for the second wash used some wheat cereal for yeast nutrients. Would this generate some methanol?

So is the rule of throwing out the first 50ml not necessary for a purely sugar based distillation? Or do you still discard because of the acetone and ethyl acetate.

The still is one of the australian Still Spirits 25L super reflux ones which have a 1380W element. I was under the impression that knocking down the steam shouldn't be too hard with this element. Oh well. Looks like I will have to get a power controller sooner than I thought. You mention a 20A router speed control. Is that a particular type of controller. I was gonig to look at something like the Sutronics Burst Fire Controller BFM240-13.

Thanks for the link Thunderbolt. Have already read that link and have made the suggested mods to my still already.

Cheers for the advice.

Here is how it works:

1. Rad is right - gotta do the reading. Also pick up 'Making Corn Whisky' by Smiley and The Compleat Distiller by McCaw and Nixon. That way you can read the theory on the can, and not just while you're in front of a PC.

2. You still need to throw out the first 50ml. Those are foreshots. There is not methanol there, but the acetone and ethyl acetate will give you a bad hangover. Also bear in mind that you have heads to throw out or recycle as well as the foreshots. The amount of heads depends on all sorts of factors, but also the kind of still you use. A reflux still will give you a smaller volume of more highly concentrated undrinkables, and a pot still will give you the opposite, with the acetone and ethyl acetate contaminating more of the run. With your still, I'd probably throw out the first 50 ml, recycle the next 400 ml, and assuming you're going slow enough, you should be safely into hearts by that point. Of course, the nose is what knows.

3. A 20 Amp router speed controller will give you enough 'headroom' to keep you safe, given the wattage of your still. Any 20 amp or higher should do.

4. Wheat contains cellulose, so it would contain methanol. So do all grains. Most, if not all fruit contains pectin. Molasses, brown sugar, and sugar contain neither, but as I said before you still need to throw out the foreshots.

Good luck.

Kifi