Need some impeller/fan help

[Zxlork]

I've been talking to my buddy about my whole process of switching to electric and about temperature changing and whatnot when we can up with a either great or stupid idea. Now realize that I run a pot still and temperature seems to be guided by the output flow. We are going to try and make a flow meter using either a very small impeller or fan(obviously needs to be safe with cool liquid distillate so I assume metal only). I have searched high and low but the smallest I can seem to come up with for a metal fan is this: http://www.vat19.com/dvds/usb-retro-metal-desk-fan.cfm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow and I can not seem to find a small metal impeller that would be safe to use with the distillate(can only seem to find plastic ones). Since I know there is a large knowledge base from everyone on here because we all do different jobs I am reaching out in hopes that someone might know something that I could buy or go to the junk yard to find a small metal impeller or a small metal fan (just need the metal fan blades).

Thanks ya'll.

[Zxlork]

This also leads me to another question. From looking at MSDS sheets it is my understanding that a neoprene impeller would be ok with cold distillate.

Whats all of your thoughts on Neoprene or Nitrile with cold distillate?

According to: http://www.cptbelts.com/support/chemicalchart.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow Neoprene is very resistant to Ethyl alcohol
http://www.efunda.com/designstandards/o ... M=Neoprene" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow says that it would be ok in seals...but the main thing I can not seem to find is if Neoprene exposed to the cold distillate would react or leach something into my product. If I can not find any information on this is there any way to test this?

[Dnderhead]

on another subject iv looked up flow meters with a gas/vapor there not that accurate.
especially at low flow rates.

[Zxlork]

that is why we were looking at making one using a micro controller on the liquid output.

[Prairiepiss]

Now realize that I run a pot still and temperature seems to be guided by the output flow.

Thanks ya'll.

It's guided by the ABV?

[rad14701]

Zxlork, I mean this in the most sincere way when I suggest that you stop expending brain cells on how to make a contraption that won't do squat for the task at hand... Get a grasp of the underlying theories of distillation and you'll see what an act of futility your notion of measuring spirit flow rates is in the grand scheme of things...

Perhaps you'd be better of explaining exactly what it is that you are attempting to accomplish and for what purpose...

[Zxlork]

Ok here is my idea.

 

To date I have only done a total of 8 distillation runs on my pot still(two 30 gallon mashes). 4 Vodka and 4 Rum. On each of those 3 were stripping runs and 1 was a final spirit run. I am currently using a 15.5 gallon keg on my pot still with a propane burner. I however will be moving up north to so I will have to be switching to electric(will have to run it in the basement and not in the garage). Since I have to switch over and I have to make a variable amperage controller I and my buddy had an idea from my runs.

 

The one thing I seem to find is that when doing stripping runs I run my propane burner full bore all the way through. Realize though when doing this I am getting a stream about ½ the size of a pencil coming out during the beginning of the run and ending at about pencil lead size. I know when I have my 5500w element installed even not at full power I should be able to push it out faster say ¾ or a full pencil size coming out the whole time(as fast as I can without puking is my understanding). As the run gets closer to the end I’ll have to keep pushing up the heating element wattage to keep that ¾ to full pencil size stream coming out.

 

When doing the final spirit run I currently heat it up until the distillate is coming out pencil lead size and back off the heat to keep it there. When using the electric element I’ll be doing the same. I’ll kick it up 5500w and wait for it to hit pencil lead size. Once it’s that size I will then back it off to say 600w(whatever wattage necessary to keep it pencil lead size) and slowly keep increasing it as I go through the run to keep it pencil lead size. Realize though as it’s coming out I’m also putting them in separate pint sized jars because I’m still inexperienced enough not to know when to make cuts and it makes it a lot simpler getting a decent final product.

 

So now that you understand how I run things and how I expect to run things the biggest thing through all the runs is the output flow rate. If I’m doing a stripping run or a final spirit run I might be having a larger or smaller flow rate of distillate but in the end I want to keep it constant at that flow rate(could vary 10-30%). What I am planning on doing is making a flow meter that will be read by a microcontroller. This microcontroller will then talk to the microcontroller that is regulating the heating element and increase or decrease the wattage as necessary. This will then allow me to have a very constant flow rate(maybe vary 5% instead of up to 30%). Although when I eye my pencil lead sized output on my final product runs I am aiming for say 2 quarts an hour I might be running to fast or too slow. But having the microcontroller check the flow rate and adjust the heat source as needed would guarantee me a constant flow rate on my distillate and a more consistent product.

 

The biggest advantage I see in doing this is I would then be allowed to focus 100% of my attention on my distillate. Tasting, feeling, recording time and abv. This in the end would allow for a much superior product because I don’t have to focus as many things as well.

[Dnderhead]

????????

[Zxlork]

What doesn't make sense?

[Dnderhead]

when i strip,i bring it up to temp,turn heat down and let it rip until nothing is coming out or its at a low alcohol out put,,
when i do a spirits run i do similar .making cuts this time
i dont adjust heat during run.
many times i run once,"with a twist" making first cut, then taking off until i have a average of what i want,then make second cut, then keep running until abv is low. this is added to next run or rerun.nether way i do not adjust heat once started.most times it just stops coming out when alcohol is depleted.

[Zxlork]

Oh....I assumed once I got more power I'd have to adjust a lot more. And I too run mine till I am getting 10% abv.

[Dnderhead]

about the only thing more heat will do is maybe faster stripping,,
and faster heat up.if you turn up heat at the end all you will do is boil off water.

[Zxlork]

I'm only going with 5500w for the faster heat up time.

[LWTCS]

The one thing I seem to find is that when doing stripping runs I run my propane burner full bore all the way through. Realize though when doing this I am getting a stream about ½ the size of a pencil coming out during the beginning of the run and ending at about pencil lead size. I know when I have my 5500w element installed even not at full power I should be able to push it out faster say ¾ or a full pencil size coming out the whole time(as fast as I can without puking is my understanding). As the run gets closer to the end I’ll have to keep pushing up the heating element wattage to keep that ¾ to full pencil size stream coming out.

See,,this is the bit that is the issue. You do not run a steady flow rate for the entire body of your run. As the alcohol gets depleted (at your prescribed heat input setting) your stream will slow. This is a visual indicator that you use to gage the progress of your run.
Collect your keepers without adjusting your input. When you are satisfied with your take then crank your heat to purge your final bit of usable alcohol.

The flow rate indicator is the size of your stream and the time it takes to fill a measured container.
Put an integrated parrot onto your output and you'll have all the data you need.

[Zxlork]

The one thing I seem to find is that when doing stripping runs I run my propane burner full bore all the way through. Realize though when doing this I am getting a stream about ½ the size of a pencil coming out during the beginning of the run and ending at about pencil lead size. I know when I have my 5500w element installed even not at full power I should be able to push it out faster say ¾ or a full pencil size coming out the whole time(as fast as I can without puking is my understanding). As the run gets closer to the end I’ll have to keep pushing up the heating element wattage to keep that ¾ to full pencil size stream coming out.

See,,this is the bit that is the issue. You do not run a steady flow rate for the entire body of your run. As the alcohol gets depleted (at your prescribed heat input setting) your stream will slow. This is a visual indicator that you use to gage the progress of your run.
Collect your keepers without adjusting your input. When you are satisfied with your take then crank your heat to purge your final bit of usable alcohol.

The flow rate indicator is the size of your stream and the time it takes to fill a measured container.
Put an integrated parrot onto your output and you'll have all the data you need.

See no matter how much I whore out these forums I'm always learn'n. To be honest I'm quite shocked. It was always my understanding your trying to keep a constant flow. For example I am always reading that when some of them do a VM you see they are always trying to get 2-5 drips per second. Granted that is pure product(vodka), a VM and not pot still I guess it would make sense if they need to keep increasing the temp to keep that constant rate. But it was always my understanding that you want to keep the same rate throughout. So, now that I know you want to see the stream slowly decrease until you finished your run then crack her up to collect the last bit do I just do like I have been and when I get her up and running on the final spirit run just start out with that pencil lead size and let it slowly decrease through the run like I have been on my gas?

Thanks.

[Dnderhead]

the flow will be determined by the amount of alcohol and the heat input.
so if you start with a 1/8 steam over time it will decrease to the point there is no alcohol left in wash. this happens in both a pot still and a reflux,but a reflux will be more "flat line"
that is it stays at one rate and temperature for an extended time then out put decreases and temperature will increase.(some stop producing)a pot still the output
will decrease threw out the run and temperature will rise threw out the run,depending on how much wash,how much alcohol, and the take off rate . in a small still this will happen much faster ,more noticeable than a large one.it simply runs out of alcohol sooner.

[Zxlork]

the flow will be determined by the amount of alcohol and the heat input.
so if you start with a 1/8 steam over time it will decrease to the point there is no alcohol left in wash. this happens in both a pot still and a reflux,but a reflux will be more "flat line"
that is it stays at one rate and temperature for an extended time then out put decreases and temperature will increase.(some stop producing)a pot still the output
will decrease threw out the run and temperature will rise threw out the run,depending on how much wash,how much alcohol, and the take off rate . in a small still this will happen much faster ,more noticeable than a large one.it simply runs out of alcohol sooner.

This part I do know...but it was always my understanding that as the output decreases I was suppose to keep increasing the heat to keep the output at the same level. I am assuming we don't increase the heat as the run goes on to get a better product by cleaner cuts?

[Dnderhead]

if you increase the heat then you will take off more by products including but not limited to water.

[rad14701]

What Dnderhead said...

By pushing as much heat as your thinking has prompted you to do you are adding brute force smearing throughout the runs rather than allowing them to proceed through the cuts, whether you are trying to make them or not... It sounds like you are running a rolling boil rather than a simmering boil... Take some time to read up on the concept of boiling chips... You're running a lot harder than I have ever attempted even with larger boiler charges than we recommend running in these forums...

By re-reading the entire topic it sounds like you are mixing the concepts of pot stilling with reflux stilling...

Slow down... It's not a race from start to finish... Forget about the flow-meter idea and concentrate on improving your methods instead... I can virtually guarantee that you will see immediate improvements in the quality of your spirits... And by slowing things down you won't feel like such a still jockey and will have time to do all the right things...