A newbie from Aus.....G'day

[kitacooch]

Hi there folks, just a quick G'day at this stage, am in the process of building my fist reflux still. Wasn't planned but sucked me in a bit like my hobby bee keeping I got into a few years ago lol. Bit of a sucker for hobbies that give me something tangible in return for my efforts. Bit surprised about how much science goes into this hobby, the more I read the more it seems like a trade skill rather than a hobby lol. Oh I'm sure it will be easier once I start playing with it. My plans are to produce something top end, I'm not interested in cheap mower fuel or cheap profits, am guessing at this stage It will mean I will be oak aging to produce a nice smooth product. Well just wanted to say G'day and look forward to asking some stupid newbie questions soon.
Cheers

[LWTCS]

Welcome kitacooch.

It's good that you are looking to make a good product....Thats why most of us are here. However,,,,cheap can be good. Its the low quality part that we like to avoid.....

Cheers
Larry

[tomgndallas]

Wow bee keeping!!! Welcome to the forum, you are in the right place!

Tom G

[Odin]

Welcome, K!

What kinda drinks are you into?

Odin.

[kitacooch]

Thanks guys, and i am into Bourbon mainly, my wife is a Southern Comfort girl, we both enjoy the odd cocktail and am keen to build a great cocktail bar made up of the full collection of white & dark spirits and liqueurs. Luv an ice cold baileys too, or on sambooka or butterscotch schnaps mmm looking forward to that challenge.
cheers

[Odin]

Try UJSSM and/or All Bran in the tried & true recipes department. You will love them!

Odin.

[kitacooch]

Try UJSSM and/or All Bran in the tried & true recipes department. You will love them!

Odin.

OK cheers for that i will, i LOVE my burbs so will be fussy.

cheers

[kitacooch]

Damn, just confirmed with ome readings that I am officially a newbie sucker, I am the not so proud owner of an off set condenser reflux column I think you call them the old CM type. F&$&. Oh well will have to work with wht I got and once up and running build a real one myself
Maybe I can mod this one, mmmm

[Odin]

Show us a pic, K! When I read about CM, my mouth starts to dribble

Off set somehow makes me think of Nixon/Stone & Liquid Management.

Odin.

[kitacooch]

Show us a pic, K! When I read about CM, my mouth starts to dribble

Off set somehow makes me think of Nixon/Stone & Liquid Management.

Odin.

Haunt any picks yet or Sussex how to post them but here is a link to where I purchased on eBay.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/REFLUX-ALCOH ... 8006wt_922" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Cherrs

[LWTCS]

Too bad. Looks pretty dodgy.

Cooling sure does come in very low on the column.

[kitacooch]

Too bad. Looks pretty dodgy.

Cooling sure does come in very low on the column.

Mmm the instructions that came with it instruct to send water in at the top through the condenser first as opposed to in at the bottom of the column ??

Damn I hate being ripped, well will teach me for bing impulsive and not researching

[Ayay]

It's not too bad. You like bourbon so a plain pot still will do. What you have is an enhanced pot still column that will raise the proof of the output. It's not a full length packed column capable of 100% reflux but closer to the pot end of the scale.

Just run it slow and careful as if it is a pot still, collect in small containers, and learn how to make good cuts. The learning curve is the same no matter if it comes out as pure vodka at 95% or as flavoured product at 70%-40% you still have to find the good stuff, the hearts, by making good cuts.

Do your own test for lead in the soldered joints to be sure.

Welcome!

[maheel]

Haunt any picks yet or Sussex how to post them but here is a link to where I purchased on eBay.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/REFLUX-ALCOH ... 8006wt_922" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Cherrs

the cranky old bugger strikes again.....
they are not a very good design
if you have not yet paid for it there still might be time to pull out of the deal....

you might be able to modifiy it into a bok or a offset valved reflux

whats your location in OZ

[kitacooch]

Haunt any picks yet or Sussex how to post them but here is a link to where I purchased on eBay.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/REFLUX-ALCOH ... 8006wt_922" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Cherrs

the cranky old bugger strikes again.....
they are not a very good design
if you have not yet paid for it there still might be time to pull out of the deal....

you might be able to modifiy it into a bok or a offset valved reflux

whats your location in OZ

Mmm it's in my shed on the gold coast qld, too late now

[kitacooch]

Haunt any picks yet or Sussex how to post them but here is a link to where I purchased on eBay.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/REFLUX-ALCOH ... 8006wt_922" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Cherrs

the cranky old bugger strikes again.....
they are not a very good design
if you have not yet paid for it there still might be time to pull out of the deal....

you might be able to modifiy it into a bok or a offset valved reflux

whats your location in OZ

Actually, was thinking about throwing a valve into the pipe joining the condenser to the tower, and extending the column a little at the base but was stuck as to what to do about the pressure?, I might now create a thread in an Appropriate section as have a few questions about a couple things. Cheers for the welcome guys.

[rad14701]

You cannot put a valve in the vapor path because the condenser is not open to the atmosphere... What you have there is a Cooling Management reflux column, as I recall... There are no easy modifications... You would have to totally butcher the existing rig if you want to make changes...

[kitacooch]

You cannot put a valve in the vapor path because the condenser is not open to the atmosphere... What you have there is a Cooling Management reflux column, as I recall... There are no easy modifications... You would have to totally butcher the existing rig if you want to make changes...

Oh bugger, thought a valve might fix, just have to do something about the pressure??
What do they with the pressure in a still that has the condenser in the column and you shut the take off valve??

[rad14701]

You cannot put a valve in the vapor path because the condenser is not open to the atmosphere... What you have there is a Cooling Management reflux column, as I recall... There are no easy modifications... You would have to totally butcher the existing rig if you want to make changes...

Oh bugger, thought a valve might fix, just have to do something about the pressure??
What do they with the pressure in a still that has the condenser in the column and you shut the take off valve??

You need to do some research into the various still design categories... CM stills never have a valve... See the various topics in the New Distiller Reading Lounge...

[Odin]

K,

Just run the darn thing! Don't be disappointed before you even tried it! I have a CM. Different from yours. Completerly impossible to manage my rig as far as reflux in concerned. Just gives me 96.5% all the time, no matter how much or little cooling water I put through. And than I did some thinking ... hey ... not bad at all, actually very good, if you are after neutrals!

Odin.

[kitacooch]

K,

Just run the darn thing! Don't be disappointed before you even tried it! I have a CM. Different from yours. Completerly impossible to manage my rig as far as reflux in concerned. Just gives me 96.5% all the time, no matter how much or little cooling water I put through. And than I did some thinking ... hey ... not bad at all, actually very good, if you are after neutrals!

Odin.

yeh well just after neutrals at this stage of the game.

[bradsgonetrekkin]

Hi mate I learnt to "drive" on one of those cm stills.

Have done neutral and uncle jesses corn whiskey and although its not the best design it will still do the job for you. Work fine for stripping and pot stilling.They are just fiddly to run if you want to try and run it as a reflux still.

Main things I would suggest that I learnt along the way are:-
- get a control valve on the water inlet line to let you regulate coolant flow easier (and yes the inlet is the tube closest to the product outlet tube)
- strip your washes first run (flat out and dont worry about temps and no scrubbers/mesh in column)
- Once you get enough stripped product dilute to 40 % and run again (a bit slower if possible)
- You can add scrubbers / mesh to column and insulate it to help bump up the alcohol content and regulate it easier if you are trying for a vodka / neutral.
- You will find that the biggest problem is keeping the temps around the optimum 78.1 etc with this cm still. I played with the coolant flow to try and keep the same temp on and off till I thought I'd go mad trying to keep it stable for reflux runs but ended up taking heaps of notes about times / temps and alcohol contents throughout the runs and ended up just letting it do its thing without worrying too much about the temps like a pot still.
- If you do proper cuts you can still get some good stuff from a cm still....

[kitacooch]

Hi mate I learnt to "drive" on one of those cm stills.

Have done neutral and uncle jesses corn whiskey and although its not the best design it will still do the job for you. Work fine for stripping and pot stilling.They are just fiddly to run if you want to try and run it as a reflux still.

Main things I would suggest that I learnt along the way are:-
- get a control valve on the water inlet line to let you regulate coolant flow easier (and yes the inlet is the tube closest to the product outlet tube)
- strip your washes first run (flat out and dont worry about temps and no scrubbers/mesh in column)
- Once you get enough stripped product dilute to 40 % and run again (a bit slower if possible)
- You can add scrubbers / mesh to column and insulate it to help bump up the alcohol content and regulate it easier if you are trying for a vodka / neutral.
- You will find that the biggest problem is keeping the temps around the optimum 78.1 etc with this cm still. I played with the coolant flow to try and keep the same temp on and off till I thought I'd go mad trying to keep it stable for reflux runs but ended up taking heaps of notes about times / temps and alcohol contents throughout the runs and ended up just letting it do its thing without worrying too much about the temps like a pot still.
- If you do proper cuts you can still get some good stuff from a cm still....

Hey cheers for that, did you have control over boiler temp??
Did you try extending the base of the column?
I was thinking as a quick fix (until I can afford and have enough info to build a decent one) adding a t piece to cooling and running external coil to an extended base, just to allow more controlled reflux in the column??
Cheers

[Odin]

Controling temp of boiler is not possible. The solution of your wash (abv) determines your boiler temp and nothing else. Please check this. There are some interesting posts on this topic and it is important you get this, if you want to understand distilling theory well enough to start your own designs

[mash rookie]

I agree with Odin. Use it ! Most members end up building more that one still after they get hooked and figure out what they like to make. They soon learn what will best suit their needs. You will figure that out.

If you like bourbon you are going to love UJSSM. If your still is a little inefficient for neutral than it may make great bourbon. Run it, find out what it will do before considering any options.

Everyone here has an opinion on what they think is best. Take your time. There is a lot to learn about stills, fermenting, distilling and aging.

Welcome aboard.

MR

[kitacooch]

Controling temp of boiler is not possible. The solution of your wash (abv) determines your boiler temp and nothing else. Please check this. There are some interesting posts on this topic and it is important you get this, if you want to understand distilling theory well enough to start your own designs

Yeah thanks i have read that in-depth thread, i understand that but am being advised to run a power controller anyway, i assume to controll the vigure of the boil up to somwhere closer to 80C . I am assuming that vapour will come off more quikly at 100C than at 80C and so not allowing good reflux hoiwever you can try and control it with cooling. My thoughts with this CM is to control the reflux best i can by keeping boiler at optimum temp 80C (possibly extend bottom of column to allow more ceramic packing) and control cooling water. I am advised that this particular column i have bought is a bit difficult to control.
Dont get me wrong i am hanging to play with it myself, just got to wait for the keg and elements to turn up, hoping to pick up triclamp and flange today/tomorrow.
I am really hoping to get some quality booze off though, as i know myself only too well and i will loose interest very quikly if i cant get something good relatively quikly. I havn't yet read up much on pot stilling yet, it might be more suited to my cm however i'm not sure i have the patience as i understand it is more of an art??

cheers guys

[Odin]

Hi K,

I think I may have given you this advice before: just use your rig. Eventhough others may not like CM's, they can surprise you. Well, mine did!

If I think about power controll to my CM ... yeah ... it was suggested that that is what I do and therefore I get such ... unusual results (96.5% purity and at a high speed too). But I don't think that is very much the case. Using a dense packing (small basalt stones) is what I guess makes the difference. Transports the cooling from the cross tubing I have over the whole diameter of the colum, thus preventing any h20 to pass and so creating pure, azeotropic ethanol.

Another essential (for me, maybe for your rig, dunno) maybe not to change (or try to change) your cooling rate. Just put in on at around 1 litres per minute, and then controll power in such a way that you push enough vapour up your column. When my ABV in the boiler gets lower, I up the power a bit. In a way, you may see this as power management, but it is in no way as sophisticated to deserve that name.

Now go and make us some neutral! Blow our minds by doing the impossible and create a good drink with a "bad" still!

Odin.

[kitacooch]

Hi K,

I think I may have given you this advice before: just use your rig. Eventhough others may not like CM's, they can surprise you. Well, mine did!

If I think about power controll to my CM ... yeah ... it was suggested that that is what I do and therefore I get such ... unusual results (96.5% purity and at a high speed too). But I don't think that is very much the case. Using a dense packing (small basalt stones) is what I guess makes the difference. Transports the cooling from the cross tubing I have over the whole diameter of the colum, thus preventing any h20 to pass and so creating pure, azeotropic ethanol.

Another essential (for me, maybe for your rig, dunno) maybe not to change (or try to change) your cooling rate. Just put in on at around 1 litres per minute, and then controll power in such a way that you push enough vapour up your column. When my ABV in the boiler gets lower, I up the power a bit. In a way, you may see this as power management, but it is in no way as sophisticated to deserve that name.

Now go and make us some neutral! Blow our minds by doing the impossible and create a good drink with a "bad" still!

Odin.

yeh thanks mate, i really do hope i can make so great neutral lol. Oh and you say to like usung the basalt, did you try ceramic?? would expect there to be a difference? i have already packed it with some rater expencive ceramic hoops. I will keep my eyes peeled for some basalt but would it be better?

[Odin]

Try ceramic, if it does not work, change to basalt rocks. They are cheap. There will be differences. Ceramics are probably much more open and the way they take in & distribute heat/cooling from the tubes will be less.

Odin.