Why exactly?

[Slowninja]

Why exactly is it illegal to distill for ones own personal consumption?

I understand why it's illegal to distill for sale, but for personal consumtion there is no reason for it to be illegal.


Thats like arresting a little ol' lady for making sweaters for her kids to wear. Because she made it herself, and didn't pay taxes on the sweaters, she should be arrested? NO!


Can someone explain the thought behind criminalizing home distillation?

[blind drunk]

Thats like arresting a little ol' lady for making sweaters for her kids to wear. Because she made it herself, and didn't pay taxes on the sweaters, she should be arrested? NO!

Maybe we should get granny to make our likker and see what happens

[Braz]

The short answer is, "Taxes."

[BigPa]

That question goes to the good ole Feds. The taxes on sweater, beer, wines, etc are no where near the percentage as Distilled Spirits. They cringe at the thought of loosing that much revenue...

[Slowninja]

But it's unconstitutional to prevent me from making my own likker, based soley on the fact that they would lose my tax money.

Using their own thought process, the money i save will be spent elsewhere. So they aren't 'losing' it, just getting it from something else.

[kenfyoozed]

Cus they say so, and we don't have the resources to bribe them to change the laws

[BigPa]

Mainly because this is no longer "THE LAND OF THE FREE".......

[Slowninja]

Sounds to me like we need to join the "occupy" movement.

[blanikdog]

For the same reason that 'they' were able to conscript twenty year old men and send then to fight - and die - in a shitty war in Vietnam. Because they are the government that WE vote for. It's our fault entirely.

[kenfyoozed]

It's our fault entirely.

I do hope that was sarcastic....... but i guess we should suspend this type of talk less we break rule No.5. But im sure we all agree the law about this aint right. No matter who is at fault.

[Bushman]

Rule 5 is too broad, I would think we are talking about party politics with that rule not law when it comes to our hobby.

[rad14701]

If it was just taxes then home distillation wouldn't be illegal in the majority of civilized countries... This is not just a USA issue... But here in the USA I'm sure it goes well beyond mere taxation but taxation is the easiest method of quelling just about any problem... That and scheduled drug acts...

In all honesty it shouldn't be about why it is illegal, it should be about how we can make it legal or at least decriminalized for personal practice and consumption... I don't care how we got to where we are, I just want to know how to get to where we want to be... And having an open forum like this and displaying that we are responsible in our methods is perhaps the best way to go about moving the the right direction... With all of the shows on television almost making a mockery of "moonshine" we need to make every effort to prove otherwise to the general public who comes here out of curiosity sparked by those shows...

So, here's the deal... Whenever you hear someone discussing those shows just let them know about this website... Let them come here and discover the real truth rather than walking around falsely thinking that it's only backwoods hicks making moonshine... Let them see that it might be the polite old guy down the street, or their cable guy, or their accountant, or the EMT who saved their loved ones life, or someone who is voluntarily serving their country in the military, or the gal who was their hiking guide during last summers vacation... Let them know that the real home distillers are an inconspicuous lot rather than the brazen few who openly walk around on TV acting like hillbillies and illegally making a living from selling moonshine... Let them discover that most home distillers are true artisans who strive to make better spirits than they can purchase at the local liquor store and that the hobby isn't about selling moonshine...

Well, that about does it for now... Probably time to go catch some moonshine show on TV...

[kenfyoozed]

So, here's the deal... Whenever you hear someone discussing those shows just let them know about this website... Let them come here and discover the real truth rather than walking around falsely thinking that it's only backwoods hicks making moonshine... Let them see that it might be the polite old guy down the street, or their cable guy, or their accountant, or the EMT who saved their loved ones life, or someone who is voluntarily serving their country in the military, or the gal who was their hiking guide during last summers vacation... Let them know that the real home distillers are an inconspicuous lot rather than the brazen few who openly walk around on TV acting like hillbillies and illegally making a living from selling moonshine... Let them discover that most home distillers are true artisans who strive to make better spirits than they can purchase at the local liquor store and that the hobby isn't about selling moonshine...

Thats a good idea, maybe we could each print up some business cards with the site on it and pass out when we can?

[Wards Best Bitter]

Rad 14701
Your post makes perfect sense to me. As a Kiwi where it is legal to make my own choice of what I may make to drink, I guess I am lucky in an age where most governments, including our own seem to consist of a bunch of control freaks.
As a newbie to this site I have to say that I am impressed by the skils and attitude of the majority of posters on here. I have received good guidance and as a result am reading more before I choose a still.
That is by the by. I did wonder if the American government still has a hankering after prohibition, which as far as I can see was a major feck up.
It has to be hoped that good sense will prevail and that you, the real experts in the art will be able to make what you will, without hinderence
Many thanks to you all for your help and for a responsible and interesting forum

[WalkingWolf]

As a newbie to this site I have to say that I am impressed by the skils and attitude of the majority of posters on here. I have received good guidance and as a result am reading more before I choose a still.

On behalf of all the folks that freely give of their time and talent I want to thank you for this observation. This opinion tends to wax-and-wane with the newest of our brethren.

[Dnderhead]

Ill tell ya,,most so called "hill billies" made the best stuff they could,with what they had.they wanted return customers.and usual drank it them selves.bad "hooch" meant they lost customers.the "bad" stuff was usually added by the "middleman" or just like to day the "broker" that wanted up his "cut" then this was usually sold in cities
where you'd never see the customers again.

[Billy4521]

I always thought distillation was illegal because of the dangers involved, not really because it was a tax thing. As far as I know it is not illegal to grow your own tobacco, which is often taxed far more then any type of alcohol depending on where you live. They tax the hell out of beer too IMO, but that is legal in all but two very conservative states.

Let's face it. It is pretty damn hard to blow your apartment complex up, or make something poisonous while brewing beer. Worst case scenario is your beer tastes like crap. As I have been doing my homework on distillation, there is actually a lot of danger to people who are uneducated in proper distillation safety. I have only been researching this for a month or two, but I know enough to be horrified by some of the questions that are posed in the new distillers forum. Particularly fire safety issues. I do believe home distillation should be legal, but I''m not sure the government should just say, "ok, it's legal now. Go crazy with it". If home distillation is to be made legal, I think it might be prudent to have to pass at least a basic safety course to get a license or permit or whatever. I'm not talking thousands of dollars, and miles of government red tape. Just basic safety course, and a fishing license type fee. Like these are the ways you can screw up and make something poisonous. These are the ways you can kill yourself and others though fire and explosion. I mean, do you want someone who is completely uneducated distilling in the apartment downstairs from where your family lives? I certainly don't. Perhaps the pro legalization movement should push for a basic safety license like that. It would show that this movement is not just people wanting cheap booze, but that we are responsible.

But take that for what it's worth. I'm just a newbie...

[clodev]

If it was just taxes then home distillation wouldn't be illegal in the majority of civilized countries... This is not just a USA issue... But here in the USA I'm sure it goes well beyond mere taxation but taxation is the easiest method of quelling just about any problem... That and scheduled drug acts...

In all honesty it shouldn't be about why it is illegal, it should be about how we can make it legal or at least decriminalized for personal practice and consumption... I don't care how we got to where we are, I just want to know how to get to where we want to be... And having an open forum like this and displaying that we are responsible in our methods is perhaps the best way to go about moving the the right direction... With all of the shows on television almost making a mockery of "moonshine" we need to make every effort to prove otherwise to the general public who comes here out of curiosity sparked by those shows...

So, here's the deal... Whenever you hear someone discussing those shows just let them know about this website... Let them come here and discover the real truth rather than walking around falsely thinking that it's only backwoods hicks making moonshine... Let them see that it might be the polite old guy down the street, or their cable guy, or their accountant, or the EMT who saved their loved ones life, or someone who is voluntarily serving their country in the military, or the gal who was their hiking guide during last summers vacation... Let them know that the real home distillers are an inconspicuous lot rather than the brazen few who openly walk around on TV acting like hillbillies and illegally making a living from selling moonshine... Let them discover that most home distillers are true artisans who strive to make better spirits than they can purchase at the local liquor store and that the hobby isn't about selling moonshine...

Well, that about does it for now... Probably time to go catch some moonshine show on TV...

Could not agree more. I will profess that the TV shows pushed me to finally do it. I love the art oand challenge of making the still although I rarly drink. I also tie fly's and don't fly fish for the same reason. Many of you are stand up people and I'm glad to have the oppertunity to learn from you.

[HeadCase]

Much agreed rad.

As someone once told me; "I'd rather be a smartass than a dumbass."

By sharing the knowledge and experience that we have we only can educate the ones that are willing to listen and learn. The ones that have troubles, cause problems, or don't really care are the ones that wouldn't listen even if you sat that down and tied them to a chair while you explained things to them. It is always a responsibility, and also the nature of any hobby, for anyone to look after their fellow peers. We never wish harm to others that do what we are doing, we always hope for and encourage for the best. It is our goal to make the best of the best to our personal standards and our lack of experience on this path is supplemented by the wealth of information fostered here.

Just like any hobby there is always safety involved. The grandmother knitting sweaters has to be sure that her hooks and leads don't stab her; the home brewer watches for the boil over when adding the hops at their 160F temp to make sure that the flame isn't extinguished or causes fires; the officer makes sure there aren't civilians near when controlling a firearm; the pilot goes through his checklist and now gets 10 hours rest; the camp guide watches for the wildlife; the list goes on and on. We can only provide knowledge, experience, and explain safety. If we continue to do this, over time we may just win this battle of legalization, but we have to play by their rules.

[BigPa]

I always thought distillation was illegal because of the dangers involved, not really because it was a tax thing. As far as I know it is not illegal to grow your own tobacco, which is often taxed far more then any type of alcohol depending on where you live. They tax the hell out of beer too IMO, but that is legal in all but two very conservative states.

Let's face it. It is pretty damn hard to blow your apartment complex up, or make something poisonous while brewing beer. Worst case scenario is your beer tastes like crap. As I have been doing my homework on distillation, there is actually a lot of danger to people who are uneducated in proper distillation safety. I have only been researching this for a month or two, but I know enough to be horrified by some of the questions that are posed in the new distillers forum. Particularly fire safety issues. I do believe home distillation should be legal, but I''m not sure the government should just say, "ok, it's legal now. Go crazy with it". If home distillation is to be made legal, I think it might be prudent to have to pass at least a basic safety course to get a license or permit or whatever. I'm not talking thousands of dollars, and miles of government red tape. Just basic safety course, and a fishing license type fee. Like these are the ways you can screw up and make something poisonous. These are the ways you can kill yourself and others though fire and explosion. I mean, do you want someone who is completely uneducated distilling in the apartment downstairs from where your family lives? I certainly don't. Perhaps the pro legalization movement should push for a basic safety license like that. It would show that this movement is not just people wanting cheap booze, but that we are responsible.

But take that for what it's worth. I'm just a newbie...

The federal excise tax on beer is no where near that of distilled spirits. The tax on beer is $18 per 31 gallon barrel. The tax on distilled spirits is $13.50 per proof gallon. That is 1 gallon of 100 proof liquid. That would be a lot of lost revenue.

[Prairiepiss]

If it was about safety in the practice of running a still. They wouldn't allow distillation of alcohol for fuel. Which is easy to apply and get a permit to do.

[Prairiepiss]

I was thinking the other day. If it were to become legal. A good way to for it to work could be loosely taken from the Amateur Radio world. Where you have to be licensed. And those that are licensed police themselves. They also do their own testing. They have volunteers that do the testing to get your license. If we could get it setup simulations to that it would be nice. Have a group of volunteers that would give testing on safety and operation. Then its sent to the government department that regulates the licences. Then it could come back to the volunteers and they could do an inspection of the equipment for safety purposes. Inspect it and give it a registration or something. And give a final ok for the issue of the licence. Clubs could be formed in areas to aid in policing and furthering safety practices. With classes and what nots.

This would take the some of the burdens off the government. Help insure that things were done safely. Would give more people in the field looking for illegal operation. That could be hazardous and harmful to the hobby. They could also education the public openly of the wonderful safe hobby. Help disband myths of how bad it is.

I see how great it works in one of my other hobbies. HAM Radio. And I think it could be put to good use in this hobby. But it would ne a lot of work to get it going and lobbying for it to happen. But in the end. It would make it much safer and more open hobby.

I could go into more detail with many more ideas but there is a good bit here.

Just my 2 nickels. And no I won't tell you my call sign.

[Bayou-Ruler]

the government could care less about distillation safety. It all bout the TAX Money

[BigPa]

I was thinking the other day. If it were to become legal. A good way to for it to work could be loosely taken from the Amateur Radio world. Where you have to be licensed. And those that are licensed police themselves. They also do their own testing. They have volunteers that do the testing to get your license. If we could get it setup simulations to that it would be nice. Have a group of volunteers that would give testing on safety and operation. Then its sent to the government department that regulates the licences. Then it could come back to the volunteers and they could do an inspection of the equipment for safety purposes. Inspect it and give it a registration or something. And give a final ok for the issue of the licence. Clubs could be formed in areas to aid in policing and furthering safety practices. With classes and what nots.

This would take the some of the burdens off the government. Help insure that things were done safely. Would give more people in the field looking for illegal operation. That could be hazardous and harmful to the hobby. They could also education the public openly of the wonderful safe hobby. Help disband myths of how bad it is.

I see how great it works in one of my other hobbies. HAM Radio. And I think it could be put to good use in this hobby. But it would ne a lot of work to get it going and lobbying for it to happen. But in the end. It would make it much safer and more open hobby.

I could go into more detail with many more ideas but there is a good bit here.

Just my 2 nickels. And no I won't tell you my call sign.

73 to ya Brother Ham...From 5 Land...

[Prairiepiss]

Ima 5 call livin in a 0 world. Back at ya.

[LWTCS]

Been more injured dragging my big cast iron skillet round the kitchen,,,,,
Gonna hafta outlaw runnin with scissors and eatin at MAC donalds if the whole shootin match is about public health and safety.

Regular folks will spend all of their money one way or another,,,,, as their ain't enough for regular folks to hardly save.....

[Billy4521]

The federal excise tax on beer is no where near that of distilled spirits. The tax on beer is $18 per 31 gallon barrel. The tax on distilled spirits is $13.50 per proof gallon. That is 1 gallon of 100 proof liquid. That would be a lot of lost revenue.

So beer at 3.2% is about $9 per proof gallon compared to $13.50. That's not that much different. I doubt many more people would home distill if it were legal. Not that many people homebrew for instance. People selling hundreds of gallons of shine affects the tax man, but I doubt home distilling would.

[BigPa]

The federal excise tax on beer is no where near that of distilled spirits. The tax on beer is $18 per 31 gallon barrel. The tax on distilled spirits is $13.50 per proof gallon. That is 1 gallon of 100 proof liquid. That would be a lot of lost revenue.

So beer at 3.2% is about $9 per proof gallon compared to $13.50. That's not that much different. I doubt many more people would home distill if it were legal. Not that many people homebrew for instance. People selling hundreds of gallons of shine affects the tax man, but I doubt home distilling would.

Either your math or mine is fucked up. I am seeing .58cents a gallon of beer compared to $13.50 a gallon of spirits. They don't figure the proof gallon of beer. It is just a flat tax of $18 per 31 gallon barrel.

[Panda]

I'm glad I live in Australia where you are free to make your own spirit without having to register your still and pay the government a disgusting excise for each drop you produce.

wait, what? Yea our government is just as greedy as yours

[Fourway]

You know it's actually every bit as illegal to grow your own tobacco?