Found a Popular US Pot For Sale In China!

[roostershooter7]

For the note: I'm not here to offend any present company, or try to slam anyone's product. I will state this on a completely factual basis, and leave the seller's name out of it for obvious reasons.

Today I was online looking for a producer of a part for the company I work for, and came across something very interesting during my break time.

In searching Distillation Equipment on the site I found a certain company's / Brand X "26 Gallon Heavy Duty Milk Can". The thing that threw me off was that I was under the impression that it was 'Made in the USA' as stated by the seller of the product. Come to find out ..... it's made in China, and there is a 200% mark-up on the product if purchased from 'Brand X'.

Just sharing the information, and helping to 'enlighten' my fellow hobbyists.

FYI, I emailed the ACTUAL producer in Shanghai, and just received an email a short time ago. Come to find out .... I can have one of these for $125 + International Freight shipped to my door! If I order 10 or more I can have them for $95 each! Actual shipping from the producer to my door is $85 for 1, so .... I guess I know where I'm buying mine! The only kicker is that I will have to wait until the end of March for them to ship. Evidently, they are on a seasonal shut down or something.

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/44282 ... ality.html

[Washashore]

This has been brought up here several times recently. Not worth it...there's a lot of "fine print" that you may not be aware of.

[roostershooter7]

I'm not sure what the 'fine print' is. Could you please elaborate?

If you are talking about the 'fine print' of the shipping and receiving from China, then I am quite aware of it. US customs accepts these as 'water distillation units', and are not subject to a considerable tax. I might have to pay a US Customs fee of around $15 to $20, but it's well worth it for the price.

[Husker]

If shipping a 1 off, see if they will ship you a shiny 'gift' lawn ornament, with no value. That might eliminate any import fees.

H.

[roostershooter7]

If shipping a 1 off, see if they will ship you a shiny 'gift' lawn ornament, with no value. That might eliminate any import fees.

H.

I'd prefer to do it the 'legal' way to avoid the US Customs Enforcement.

That said, I checked the duty fees on it, and they are $0!

It is classified as a 26 gallon ss milk can, and falls under "Industrial and Agricultural Dairy" so there are absolutely no fees, taxes, or duties on it from China! Now, that is for 1 unit. If I ordered 10 or 20 then it would be considered a 'business import' and fall under the IRS tax and duties category.

[Prairiepiss]

Here is a 3 page thread on the same thing.
http://www.homedistiller.org/wiki/index.php/forum ... =6&t=26512

[roostershooter7]

I read that! It seems like there is an awful lot of misconception and myths being passed around. Again, I'm not here to step on any toes, but to simply state the facts as I see them.

If Brand X's pot IS NOT the exact same product as the one listed, then why are they not available for several months as they are sold out? If the owner of this brand actually DID own the stamps and equipment to make them, then what would stop him from stamping 3 or 4 out in 30 minutes?

Also, a little history on Chinese Steel. It's not 'Made in China'. It's made in Russia, and is smelted in China. How do I know this? I work for a major US Steel foundry, and WE all get Russian Steel. (Sorry ... but there is NO LEAD in steel!) We are in a major bidding war against the Chinese, as we speak! To make a long story short, Russia would rather deal with China and their currency because of it's stability, as opposed to, the instability of the US dollar. That was just a short explanation, and not a political or economical theory. Just the facts.

Here is the kicker. I could understand why FEDEX would cost twice as much for the product to ship from Mainland China. Why not go in on a group buy, and buy 10 by Sea Freight? Sure, it might take 1 month or 2 to get here and clear customs, but it would be less than $60 for each unit purchased. Feel like a group buy?

[astronomical]

Sure. You front all the cash and take all the risk and I'll buy one when I see them on skype.


I doubt you're going to find a bunch of people willing to gamble with cash up front. Consider the fact that we then have to pay for you to ship it to our location. Whats the real savings in the end? Maybe good savings for you, but not so much for others.

I'm not trying to discourage you, please buy them. Just don't sit around bantering trying to collect money so that you can get a free one and take no risk (or at a bare minimum, risk a bunch of money to save some). However, if you bought ten, I'd be more than happy to pay a 10% premium to help pay for yours for funding the initial risk... nuff said

BTW, I clicked the link, the specifications are sketchy as fuck... "Drawings are welcome"??? seriously?

[Prairiepiss]

What's wrong with a keg? Just askin.

[roostershooter7]

What's wrong with a keg? Just askin.

I have one, and I bought it new. I just didn't feel right in using something that belonged to a major corporation to do 'less than legal' activities. After all, when you buy a keg of beer at the liquor store you have to bring the old one back which means that I'm 'renting' a keg, and it doesn't belong to me.

However, kegs only have 2" sankey fitting openings. The openings on these milk cans are 3". That translates into a better vapor flow when the column begins to do it's thing.

Sure. You front all the cash and take all the risk and I'll buy one when I see them on skype.


I doubt you're going to find a bunch of people willing to gamble with cash up front. Consider the fact that we then have to pay for you to ship it to our location. Whats the real savings in the end? Maybe good savings for you, but not so much for others.

I'm not trying to discourage you, please buy them. Just don't sit around bantering trying to collect money so that you can get a free one and take no risk (or at a bare minimum, risk a bunch of money to save some). However, if you bought ten, I'd be more than happy to pay a 10% premium to help pay for yours for funding the initial risk... nuff said

BTW, I clicked the link, the specifications are sketchy as fuck... "Drawings are welcome"??? seriously?

You're right. I forgot where I was for a minute. I've done numerous group buys on other forums, but they all involve legal hobbies. Although, it never involves ANYONE saving any money than the next guy unless it's on shipping. That's the point of a group buy. Everyone gets the same deal. Any other way, and it's not a good group buy, and someone's not being up front.

[Prairiepiss]

You can buy a legal keg that has up to a 6" triclamp fitting on top.

And I'm not sold on the 3" ferrule providing that much more. See people on here running 3" and 4" columns on a 2" standard keg with very good output. All the time. This is just my observations. I am in the process of a build to test these theorys.

[roostershooter7]

You can buy a legal keg that has up to a 6" triclamp fitting on top.

And I'm not sold on the 3" ferrule providing that much more. See people on here running 3" and 4" columns on a 2" standard keg with very good output. All the time. This is just my observations. I am in the process of a build to test these theorys.

Well, it stands to reason that the larger diameter will allow better flow. After all, you get more soda sipping through a standard drink straw as opposed to sipping through a coffee straw.

[Prairiepiss]

Yes this is true. But my opinion is. The column needs to optimized and built to take advantage of the added volume of vapors. Otherwise it is a waist of time and money.

Edited to add. And my thoughts are most are not.

[eddieb]

It's not just about the volume of vapor, it's also about the velocity of the vapor. The volume and velocity are dependent on many factors. Unless you are extrememly good at math and have the knowledge to make your inputs extremely accurate OR you want to do a BUNCH of trial and error experiments and have the abilty to analyze the data, it is gonna be extrmemely difficult to find optimization. Better maybe. There are ways to optimize a complicated process (like distillation) with many variables, but it beyond the scope of this forum probably

[King Of Hearts]

I could make a 4 in on my keg if I wanted to, but why bother, 2 in works just fine with my pot head. It looks to work just as well with a 4 in column and up to ten plates. If it's not broke, don't fix it. We're not pumping out liquid just vapor.

[rad14701]

It's not just about the volume of vapor, it's also about the velocity of the vapor. The volume and velocity are dependent on many factors. Unless you are extrememly good at math and have the knowledge to make your inputs extremely accurate OR you want to do a BUNCH of trial and error experiments and have the abilty to analyze the data, it is gonna be extrmemely difficult to find optimization. Better maybe. There are ways to optimize a complicated process (like distillation) with many variables, but it beyond the scope of this forum probably

Any amount of research on the parent site would show that most of the calculations are available and are not nearly as complex as you're making them out to be... While much of what you see here may seem to be mere happenstance there is more science and physics invested than may outwardly appear... You'll be amazed at what you can find if you take the time to look... The rest can easily be found by doing a few web searches... It's not all smoke and mirrors but we do leave room for a little magic...

This site wasn't tossed together by Tim and Tickle...

[eddieb]

It's not just about the volume of vapor, it's also about the velocity of the vapor. The volume and velocity are dependent on many factors. Unless you are extrememly good at math and have the knowledge to make your inputs extremely accurate OR you want to do a BUNCH of trial and error experiments and have the abilty to analyze the data, it is gonna be extrmemely difficult to find optimization. Better maybe. There are ways to optimize a complicated process (like distillation) with many variables, but it beyond the scope of this forum probably

Any amount of research on the parent site would show that most of the calculations are available and are not nearly as complex as you're making them out to be... While much of what you see here may seem to be mere happenstance there is more science and physics invested than may outwardly appear... You'll be amazed at what you can find if you take the time to look... The rest can easily be found by doing a few web searches... It's not all smoke and mirrors but we do leave room for a little magic...

This site wasn't tossed together by Tim and Tickle...

WHAT in the world are you talking about?

[Prairiepiss]

but it beyond the scope of this forum probably

Yeah us Tim and Tickles couldn't handle that much scope.

[Husker]

now now, pp, 1 troll is enough.

[eddieb]

If it's all so easy, tell us what is the optimum design for a 4" column. Be specific. Plate design, number of holes, distance between plates, weir height, the hole nine yards. There is a big difference in functional and optimal. That is what was being discussed. To determine optimal conditions, YES it would be VERY complicated and very difficult. But I see it has evolved into name calling and piling on again as usual.

[eddieb]

beyond the scope of this forum probably

Why the digs? Please do a bit of reading befor attacking.

No dig. Optimizing a process with as many variables as distilling is very intense. I have read. Here and other places for years.

[rad14701]

If it's all so easy, tell us what is the optimum design for a 4" column. Be specific. Plate design, number of holes, distance between plates, weir height, the hole nine yards. There is a big difference in functional and optimal. That is what was being discussed. To determine optimal conditions, YES it would be VERY complicated and very difficult. But I see it has evolved into name calling and piling on again as usual.

Now you just want us to hold your hand and spoon feed you rather than doing the required research... Not going to happen... You seem to be the one with all the questions and accusations so go forth and educate yourself and then come back and show us how ignorant you think we are... After all, it's up to you to know the WHY behind the facts... That's called fixing ignorance, but you can't fix stupid... If there is something you don't know, learn it... If we just give in and and tell you all the answers here then the next new guy will think we should just give him all of the answers too without investing any effort into the theories behind that information...

As of now you are doing little more than dragging folks off topic in multiple forums here on HD... You've made your move over to the other side so why not see if they will be more welcoming of your antics over there... I can assure you that they won't... If they will then let your brilliance shine over yon hill...

[King Of Hearts]

LOL, This site wasn't tossed together by Tim and Tickle...

Now that's pretty dam funny.

[eddieb]

If it's all so easy, tell us what is the optimum design for a 4" column. Be specific. Plate design, number of holes, distance between plates, weir height, the hole nine yards. There is a big difference in functional and optimal. That is what was being discussed. To determine optimal conditions, YES it would be VERY complicated and very difficult. But I see it has evolved into name calling and piling on again as usual.

Now you just want us to hold your hand and spoon feed you rather than doing the required research... Not going to happen... You seem to be the one with all the questions and accusations so go forth and educate yourself and then come back and show us how ignorant you think we are... After all, it's up to you to know the WHY behind the facts... That's called fixing ignorance, but you can't fix stupid... If there is something you don't know, learn it... If we just give in and and tell you all the answers here then the next new guy will think we should just give him all of the answers too without investing any effort into the theories behind that information...

As of now you are doing little more than dragging folks off topic in multiple forums here on HD... You've made your move over to the other side so why not see if they will be more welcoming of your antics over there... I can assure you that they won't... If they will then let your brilliance shine over yon hill...

Why do you assume you know such much more than me? (or anybody) Speaking of antics, I don't see you acting there like you do here. By the way...you don't have all the answers.

[Prairiepiss]

If it's all so easy, tell us what is the optimum design for a 4" column. Be specific. Plate design, number of holes, distance between plates, weir height, the hole nine yards. There is a big difference in functional and optimal. That is what was being discussed. To determine optimal conditions, YES it would be VERY complicated and very difficult. But I see it has evolved into name calling and piling on again as usual.

My thinking is that the 4" columns being built are not an optimized 4" column. I repeat are not an optimized 4" column. But until I'm done with my build and test my theory. I can't back it. So until I get results I'm not going to bring it to the table. And in my case at this given point in time. I don't have the resources to do it in a timely manner. As soon as I get into the new house and get settled in. Then I will have time and space to work on it.

I don't feel that anything is beyond the scope of this site. With the proper research all the information is available to anyone willing to work on it. They just need to have the determination to do so. Many don't. They just want to build a still that works and be happy sipping the fruits of their labors. But there is as many of us that do want to go further with it. Just because we can't build it and produce it in one day. Doesn't mean we aren't working on it.

You act like you have superior knowledge and have something to bring to the table. But yet you have not proven it or brought it to the table. Give us something. Please.

[eddieb]

If it's all so easy, tell us what is the optimum design for a 4" column. Be specific. Plate design, number of holes, distance between plates, weir height, the hole nine yards. There is a big difference in functional and optimal. That is what was being discussed. To determine optimal conditions, YES it would be VERY complicated and very difficult. But I see it has evolved into name calling and piling on again as usual.

My thinking is that the 4" columns being built are not an optimized 4" column. I repeat are not an optimized 4" column. But until I'm done with my build and test my theory. I can't back it. So until I get results I'm not going to bring it to the table. And in my case at this given point in time. I don't have the resources to do it in a timely manner. As soon as I get into the new house and get settled in. Then I will have time and space to work on it.

I don't feel that anything is beyond the scope of this site. With the proper research all the information is available to anyone willing to work on it. They just need to have the determination to do so. Many don't. They just want to build a still that works and be happy sipping the fruits of their labors. But there is as many of us that do want to go further with it. Just because we can't build it and produce it in one day. Doesn't mean we aren't working on it.

You act like you have superior knowledge and have something to bring to the table. But yet you have not proven it or brought it to the table. Give us something. Please.

Never said I had superior knowledge. But, I do have some experience in this area. Life experiences Do come in handy sometimes. Nothing is impossible. If you put your mind to it you can do anything. Process optimization is a very defined approach to a process. The reason I said it is beyond the scope of this forum is not because the people here couldn't do it, I think it would be difficult to get everybody on the same page long enough to work thru it. Research "design of experiments"or "designed experiment" and that should point you to some good stuff to learn. I would be glad to help in any way possible. PM me if you want. I don't think I'm as bad as you think. It's been a while, I would have to freshen up some too.

[Prairiepiss]

I'm good thanks. No offence but you haven't produced any information around here. To lead me to beleave you can help me. And offering help VIA pm is not a practice that is liked around here. If it can't be put on the open boards. Then it mite be questionable. And raises a red flag. I do beleave that was pointed out once.

[rubber duck]

So were are we going with this thread? It started out with a pot, then a troll got involved and it moved to 4" columns. Then Tim and Tickle got involved and now it looks like all we have is a big pissing match.

WTF are you guys doing? Don't feed the trolls.

[astronomical]

Ugghhh... Those mathmatic formulas are mostly aimed towards efficiency of large scale distilleries. They aren't magical declicious whiskey formulas. More capital, less quality. It's amazing that someone of your unmatched intelligence couldn't realize that.

[rubber duck]

Sigh.........