Using Bananas to Convert Starches to Sugars

[roostershooter7]

Has anyone tried using ripe / slightly brown bananas to convert starches to sugars?

The primary compound that is responsible for the bananas maturation is gluco-amylase, after all. This is the exact same chemical compound found in Distiller's AG. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Amyloglucosidase just a bio-engineered version of the same gluco-amylase found in bananas?

[heartcut]

You would need to add alpha first, not sure if the gluco in banannas would be enough to convert the long chains. The bio-waste ethanol guys add both to bananna scraps, but that includes stems and peels.
http://www.google.com/patents/US5833757" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[roostershooter7]

You would need to add alpha first, not sure if the gluco in banannas would be enough to convert the long chains. The bio-waste ethanol guys add both to bananna scraps, but that includes stems and peels.
http://www.google.com/patents/US5833757" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

The google article that you sited was for sweet banana syrup from GREEN bananas. A totally different process. Green bananas don't have as much Gluco Amylase as brown bananas do!

Perfect example. Eat a green banana and afterward you will have a starchy mouthfeel for awhile. Eat a completely ripe banana and afterwards you will have a sweet moutfeel for awhile.

I have used bananas for converting starch in wine to fermentable sugars, and in aiding clearing of starch hazes. However, I didn't know if I was missing something in the crossover into 'beer' making.

[heartcut]

The green banannas should have their maximum alpha before they start converting their own starch to sugar. Because banannas have a lot of starch even after they're ripe, they probably don't have enough emzymes left to convert anything else.

[roostershooter7]

The green banannas should have their maximum alpha before they start converting their own starch to sugar. Because banannas have a lot of starch even after they're ripe, they probably don't have enough emzymes left to convert anything else.

Yes, but it's my understanding of the process that tells me that glucoamylase (AG) is produced from the active decaying of the banana peel itself. The bacteria Bacillus subtilis is responsible for the creation of GlucoA. and is not as active in the 'green' phase of the banana as in the 'brown' phase. The enzymes Glucoamylase and Alpha-Amylase are present only in small concentrations during the beginning of the banana's maturation. When it begins to ripen then both Amylase strains are more abundant due to the parent bacteria's activity.

[heartcut]

If you try it, I'd be interested in the results.

[roostershooter7]

I might try it on a small 1 gallon batch this week. I'll use 1 as the control, and the second with ripe bananas.

I'll have to start them both with the same yeast starter to ensure accurate results. I'll put it to the test and get back next weekend.

[Barney Fife]

Yeast will have nothing to do with the results. What you need to study is the conversion, so a SG hygrometer and a few iodine tests should tell you how well(or not) it is converting.

[frozenthunderbolt]

Great to see an experiment. My flatmate buys bananas and lets them go brown all the time. I would have an endless supply of peel to use if it proved worth while!

[rad14701]

Just tossing this out there with no real factual basis to back it up...

If I was going to try using bananas to convert starches I'd wait until they started showing their first signs of spotting and then run the whole bananas through a blender or food processor... Those skins hold a lot of various nutrients and most likely at least some of the necessary enzymes...

I'd be interested in hearing the results from various experiments... Or we could just track down Tim and Tickle and ask them...

[jake_leg]

Banana peels actually contain quite a lot of fermentable sugars themselves. The amylase is predominantly alpha with a bit of beta. Sounds a bit like sweet potato peel in these respects. I would say it's definitely worth trying to ferment cut up banana peels if you have access to a lot of them. They would probably convert a bit of extra starch along the way, given sufficient Calcium ions for the alpha amlyase to work.

[roostershooter7]

Well, I did a test study, and actually put a lot of time and effort into it.

First, I took 2 pounds of bananas and sliced them, peel and all, into 1/4" slices and dehydrated them in my dehydrator. (14 hours total for 2 pounds)

Then, I pulverized the dried bananas into a grit and introduced 1/2" pound into a 1 gallon mash.

The test results were interesting to say the least. I used a piece of whitish yellow sidewalk chalk to perform the test on. When I'm done I cut off 1/8" of the tip of the chalk, and I have a new test platform!

After 45 minutes in the mash tun my control mash WITHOUT bananas still showed a light blueish gray hue to it.

While the mash WITH the bananas showed almost a complete conversion after only 45 minutes. The color was a pale yellow to white color!

So, would you say that this confirms my theory?

[heartcut]

Pretty cool- sounds like it worked. Gonna have to play with that a little. Thanks.

[frozenthunderbolt]

Awesome - could you give some more info about the make up of the gallon of mash that you added the banana grits too? Cheers.

[nitramtWhat1]

Hi there new to the forum so not sure if this is appropriate for this location;

I am currently half-way thru the fermentation of a banana/sugar run. Using 3.5lbs of fruit, 2lbs sugar and 5G water with bakers yeast. So far it smells terrific and seems to be fermenting nicely. I hope to run it thru my fract still this weekend or when the bubbling stops. Hoping to get a banana brandy.

Martin.

[Coolbreeze]

Just tossing this out there with no real factual basis to back it up...

If I was going to try using bananas to convert starches I'd wait until they started showing their first signs of spotting and then run the whole bananas through a blender or food processor... Those skins hold a lot of various nutrients and most likely at least some of the necessary enzymes...

I'd be interested in hearing the results from various experiments... Or we could just track down Tim and Tickle and ask them...

I was wondering about their "Brandy" recipe myself....also...how did they swap vehicles back????

[DFitz]

I wonder how this would go over in a molasses wash. I'm wondering if the banana would help convert any of the un-fermented solids in the molasses. I'm sure it would offer a lot to the pallet of the liquor. Not like there's anything to loose by adding a few bunches of browning bananas to the wash. I might give this a try on my next rum.

[rad14701]

I wonder how this would go over in a molasses wash. I'm wondering if the banana would help convert any of the un-fermented solids in the molasses. I'm sure it would offer a lot to the pallet of the liquor. Not like there's anything to loose by adding a few bunches of browning bananas to the wash. I might give this a try on my next rum.

No, bananas will not help with a rum wash because those "unfermentable solids" are just that, unfermentable... They are not starches that can be converted to sugars...

[RumRaider]

I tried a bunch of bananas in a 5 Gal molasses and brown sugar wash. No banana flavor at all came through. I'm pretty new to this so YMMV but, all I got from it was regular rum and experience. The rum was good though

[Alberta Rye Man]

I've used green bananas in my bourbon mash for this purpose and it works. I just cut a couple up, peel and all, into the thick starchy mash, and its thinned right out by the time I go to use it. Green bananas have the enzymes available because they haven't been used up in the ripening process. They give a nice flavour as well.

[Chauncey]

I've used green bananas in my bourbon mash for this purpose and it works. I just cut a couple up, peel and all, into the thick starchy mash, and its thinned right out by the time I go to use it. Green bananas have the enzymes available because they haven't been used up in the ripening process. They give a nice flavour as well.

Can you give us some more deets on your process, grain bill, temps etc

[Alberta Rye Man]

Honestly, I can't. My process is pretty bush league, at present. Lol. I just started. Last year was a test. I loved it, so this year will be taken a little more serious.

10 cups/3.3lbs corn
1 cup/5oz Steal Cut Oats
1 cup/5oz Pot Barley
10 cup/3.3lbs Sugar
4 tsp baking yeast
2-3 Black Bananas
1 Green Banana
Water to the top

That's what I wrote for a recipe. Five gallon pale of mash. I just cooked everything, except green bananas, (3 gallon pot) up to a slow boil and then simmered till it gelitonized. Then poured it into a pale, added water, more sugar and pitched the yeast once it cooled. Then I cut a couple of green bananas into it and stirred. About a week to ferment. Tatse like banana oatmeal, obviously.

Kept some back wash for a couple runs of sour mash, after, and it taste really good. I over cooked a little home made caramel and dropped a chunk into a jar, for a half hour, and ran it through a Brita filter. Also taste really good.

I haven't run any over the winter but I've got a aquarium heater, hydrometer, activated carbon and a few other things to dial in my process this spring. Also building a 6 gallon pot still, right now.