uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

[Titus-a-fishus]

Hey Odiddle
I use about 2 tablespoons of bakers yeast per 25ltr wash.
Stir it up good to airiate the wash and watch it go.


TAF

[JollyMon]

Just opened my fermenter on my first ever mash. After 4 days the SG is 1.020 (and still bubbling away), I don't have a starting SG (I forgot to take one ). Does this sound right? Its been fermenting in the garage which averages around 66-71 degrees. I am guessing that since it has been at a cooler temperature it will take more time than the 3-4 days mentioned on the first page. I followed the recipe for the 5 gallons mash to a T minus using bakers yeast instead of distillers yeast. I guess I just have to let it go until the SG is 1.000-0.980. I am assuming once we get to that point the bubbles will stop and we can run it.

Also lets say the mash finishes and I couldn't run in right away, would it be okay if it sat for a few additional days until time opened up on my schedule? Or would you guys have any advice to offer to make sure I dont ruin the mash by letting it sit too long?

Thanks.
JollyMon

[Odin]

Sounds right Jolly!

Mine run usually for 6 days. Bubbling can continue at a slow pace, because of starch conversion (and fermentation) of the grain adjunct. SG arouns 1,000 is okay. Leaving it for a few days? I would rack it off, add some water to your grain & yeast bed and give the beer time to settle & clear.

Odin.

[Odiddle]

Thanks a lot Titus.
gettin ready to add it as we speak.

[Kal]

Also lets say the mash finishes and I couldn't run in right away, would it be okay if it sat for a few additional days until time opened up on my schedule? Or would you guys have any advice to offer to make sure I dont ruin the mash by letting it sit too long?

I just let it sit there in the fermenter until I am ready to distill it. I find it settles and clears up quite well even with all the grain in there.

Edit: just noticed this new sticky in the new distiller reading lounge forum that is probably alot of help to you:

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 46&t=28549

[markbec]

Just completed my 2nd ferment of UJSSM and it's pretty good. Taste the corn though, possibly too much or maybe i'm not used to it. Generally like glenfiddich, but this would be my best attempt so far. Doing the next batch with backset plus adding raisins, blueberrys, rye and barley, then see what happens. Think i probably need to do a proper mash with grains but will keep running this for a couple more times.

[crtbc]

So if your not suppose to disturb the lees and trub when racking off, which is the reason we rack instead of pouring out the contents of the bucket?? How to you get the sugar and water and backset to mix back in with the grains.. ar at that point you dont care and let it thoughouly mix, and or use a mixer after you have added the liquids and sugar??

Thanx

[blind drunk]

The next generation will resettle again after it's done fermenting.

[markbec]

So if your not suppose to disturb the lees and trub when racking off, which is the reason we rack instead of pouring out the contents of the bucket?? How to you get the sugar and water and backset to mix back in with the grains.. ar at that point you dont care and let it thoughouly mix, and or use a mixer after you have added the liquids and sugar??

Thanx

Use the hot backset to mix the sugar and then when it cools below 30c or even lower, mix it all up again in your fermenter. Stir with a folding motion(top to bottom).

[Odin]

You can also use the hot backset to steep your new grain in (the part that replaces old, spent corn). The heats helps crack them open better, swell them so to speak. And it sorta sterilizes the new grain in the way that you don't get any unwanted bacteria, etc. over.

Odin.

[JollyMon]

Welp, The mash finished in 6 days, with an SG of 1 (exactly what Odin said). So I put it in my boiler and ran it. Since its the first generation, not sure if I was supposed to get anything drinkable out of it, but everything I tasted . I am currently letting it air out and hopefully that will smooth out the taste a little. Otherwise that batch will be back in the boiler for another run (when I get enough of it that is). I collected in about 150ml increments and got ~1300ml (I think I only had 4 gallons of the mash as I didn't want to disturb the bottom of the fermenter).

The second fermentation is now currently running (hopefully it taste better).

JollyMon

[Odin]

Did you pot distill? Once, twice? What abv? Did you make cuts? If so, how? Many questions. I hope you can answer them so we can help you out.

Odin.

[JollyMon]

I ran my reflux still as a pot still (no packing and just left the output valve wide open) and I only ran it once. Which might be the reason it didn't turn out so well. I don't have the ABV. I was collecting in 150ml increments and my alcoholometer wouldn't register in such a small amount of liquid (in a larger graduated cylinder) and didn't want to start mixing jars on my first go. So I was basically just trying to do this by taste. So my novice taste buds gave me the following. basically first 150-200ml fores, the next 300-500ml I declared as heads, next 300-400 hearts, rest tails. I shut down when the output considerably slowed and I jacked my heat up trying to keep it going. So I am not sure.

With my next fermentation I am going to make sure I take more detailed measurements to figure out what is actually coming out.

[markbec]

Do a stripping run if it's your first wash to collect all usable alc. I normally remove foreshots then just start collecting down to 30%ABV, no need to separate. Pour water back(done asap once racked) into the fermenter leaving room for hot backset with sugar.The next weekend I pour the stripping run from previous week into the still with current racked wash. Think it's called a 1.5 distill method which i find is great tasting. Some people do 3 stripping runs before they actually do a drinking run, for a larger return.

[Odin]

Jolly,

I think running a reflux in pot mode is a bit more difficult than running a traditional pot still. At least with my detuned CM, I still gett a lot of reflux (from 8% to 80% in one run) that cuts are difficult. More over I get high gass speeds that mix my heads, hearts and tails. Smearing, and that can ruin any run.

And what kinda reflux do you use? I think people using Boka's, still draw of fores/heads in a very slow way, before opening up the throttle, but I am no Boka expert so stand to be corrected.

Now I don't know if my problems are yours, but if you have a proper pot still your learning will speed up with this recipe. Three stripping runs, one spirit run ...

Odin.

[JollyMon]

I'm using a Nixon stone twin valve reflux. I read it could go either way (taking it off slow or just leaving the valve open) for the fores on a reflux still if running as a pot. I figured I'd just try it the simpler way first and see how it turned out.

I'll take your advice and build a pot, I have an itch to build something again. I have a couple feet of 2" copper lying around, so Ill whip something up and see how that turns out. In the mean time, I'll throw all my collection in to my feints jar and run the next gen in my reflux for stripping runs.

Thanks for helping.

[Odin]

Jolly,

Maybe someone else with a boka or N/S can step in and share experiences or give advice? Or you can post this question in the mentoring department. For sure someone will pick it up!

But building a pot still is never a bad idea!

Good luck,
Odin.

[KSAguy]

i'd appreciate any comments on this, especially ways in which i need to simplify things or explain things more clearly.

http://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.php/Uncle_Jes ... ash_Method

My first attempt to make this whisky seems like a disaster. I couldn't find any corn so tried using polenta (corn meal)......

I am in Saudi Arabia.

I am having good results with 'Yellow Popcorn" that I mill / grind in a blender (it has a smaller unit for grinding).

I am into my 5th generation and it has a corn flavor!

[Odin]

Congrats KSA!

[markbec]

Just a quick question,


On my 5th gen of sour mash and it's still quite sweet. The flavour has a distinct corn taste but still not going sour. A friend gave me an empty bottle of jim beam to use and hadn't cleaned it, noticed it had a rather sour smell not sweet. Using ultra pure pot still from pure distilling. Backset ranging from 25%-50% over the different generations and my wash finishes around 990 with 8%. I use about 3kg of dextrose for a 23L wash. Any obvious reason's as to why it would stay sweet??

I can't control output or temp.

[Odin]

Maybe you used sweet corn? That way you will end up with a sweet taste in your corn likker. What's important is that the beer you make is sour in taste. So you know no sugars are left and it fermented dry.

Odin.

[markbec]

Hi Odin,
Have been using cracked corn and every wash was the same(sweet). It's not like it was overly sweet but it didn't change and it doesn't taste/smell like sours at the local homebrew shop. I've got my last Gen this weekend and then i'll try something else.

Next attempt:
Cracked barley and sugar or a liquid malt, cracked barley and sugar combo.

Depending on success, I will try a grain mash after this.

[Odin]

Cracked barley is great too, and so is rye! That's my favourite so far.

Odin.

[markbec]

Do you do that as a sour or a one off?

[Odin]

I started with corn. Made a few gens, then started to add more rye instead of corn as replacement grain (I replace like 25% of the grain each generation). I did the same with barley. Then I decided (since my corn over here doesn't give much taste) to try and do an all broken barley. I used some 25% backset of the latest corn/barley combo. I made some 4 gens of that and liked it. Next thing is I switched to all rye. I used the last backset of the all barley to start that up. First two gens were pretty good already, but from gen 3 it really gets well. If I change my recipe, I usually use the first two generations for a vodka, and from gen 3 I start to double pot distill it into a whiskey.

Now that was the long answer. Now the short one: no, I never do a one off. Always at least 4 generations.

Say I have like a few kilo's left of something (had some 5 kilo's of peated barley malt for instance), and when it is not enough to start making continuous generations with grain replacement, I just dump in what I have (5 kilo's in this case) and make 4 gens not replacing grains. My feeling is the grain can get you 4 gens without replacing and taste only gets better. After that, you really need to replace grain to keep up the taste profile. If I have a lot of a certain grain, I simply replace 25% each time.

Try to find your taste, what you like! If you think your corn is too sweet to your palate, maybe add some rye or barley. Maybe malted. Or spelt or wheat. It is the experimenting I love. For me rye gave me the best. And then I "upped" to all malted rye ... and so far it is not good. Well, gen 1 wasn't. Gen 2 will be distilled this weekend. Who knows?

Odin.

[markbec]

Just got home from work and decided to check my last run, found 2 bottles have soured The smell and taste has changed greatly. The last gen had rye and barley added so maybe that changed it a little. Think I probably need 2 washes going, as I now want to keep this, but also try something else


Thanks for the feedback Odin, much appreciated.

[Odin]

You are welcome, now go get them!

Odin.

[rad14701]

A friend gave me an empty bottle of jim beam to use and hadn't cleaned it, noticed it had a rather sour smell not sweet.

Don't go basing anything on a comparison between aged commercial spirits and an undistilled wash, or even distilled yet unaged spirits...

[markbec]

Nah i went to the local homebrew shop and tasted his product and compared it to mine. Have completed 4 gen's already so had plenty to compare it with. Wasn't looking for a match, but wanting a sour mash not a sweet one.

[Fastill]

Nah i went to the local homebrew shop and tasted his product and compared it to mine. Have completed 4 gen's already so had plenty to compare it with. Wasn't looking for a match, but wanting a sour mash not a sweet one.

You are sounding a little confused on terminology and also on the end results you are expecting.
A sourmash doesn't produce a sour distilled wash, but one with more flavor profile than would be achieved by using straight water in the ferment.
Spent beer or Backset was used as a method of using less fresh water, or recycling the used water, so less water was needed for the next ferment. As a plus, it increases the flavor of the finished product and also lowers the Ph of the wash to aid in fermenting. With backset being acidic and "sour" it makes the wash more sour and therefore the name "sourmash"
Now if you are looking for less sweetness in your finished product, you may be allowing too much heads in your final cutting and blending. I feel that some UJSSM heads give a sweetness that after aging on oak gives that sweet Bourbony flavor that I am after.
If you are referring to your wash being sweet, then you just need to give it more time to finnish fermenting. UJSSM will be quite sour when done fermenting.
If your wash is stalling, you may need to address other issues such as quality of water or starting sg being to high.
Sure hope this helps.