Making Bourbon - help appreciated

[Bevan]

I'd appreciate help with trying to replicate Jim Beam (or as close as possible). I'm using a turbo 500 column still with essences and can't get close, irrespective of what I do with blends / chips etc.

I've been told that:
"... using a column still means that what you're trying to do is flavor a very pure vodka to taste like Jim beam. Not gonna happen. Big picture is you have a miata and you want it act like a big old buick. To do that you have to be willing to putter around with your foot off the gas. If you run a mash from a proper bill of grains through your column still and go for the lowest purity it can give you, then you'd be on the right track. All the stuff your still tries to remove is the stuff you want in there.
Also Jim Beam uses an insane amount of "backwash", that means you mix your spent still into your fresh mash. So it is a several batch process, just like how a true pot still is supposed to run.
Aging in a charcoal cask or putting chunks of charred oak into your distillate is also going to bring you closer.
I have heard some people do a down and dirty run of wort made simply from bran, and they have been very happy with the results".[/i]

As I'm a novice, the help above isn't quite enough detail to get me going so anyone expanding on this (recipe / instructions??) will be a real help - so far I've only used the ready-to-go kits you get from homebrew stores

Thanks
Bevan

[rad14701]

Greetings, Bevan...

If you want to make flavored spirits, like Jim Beam, then you really want a pot still... The problem with the T500 is that it is a reflux column and as per the manufacturer you should not run it to temperatures greater than 85C/185F, which means no detuning for pot still operation... Going above that temperature will cause the plastic components, which we kinda frown upon here, to warp and leak - not to mention potentially contaminating your spirits... So that leaves you with either using flavored essences, which we also kinda frown upon, or just starting out with a pot still which is the right tool for the job...

Take your time, do plenty of research, ask questions, and only after that should you consider building or buying your still...

Good luck and enjoy the journey...


p.s.: the proper term would be "backset", not "backwash"...

[Prairiepiss]

Jim Braz was my goto before I started this hobby. That being said. I can't hardly drink it now. So I'm not sure why you would want to make a clone of it. I would consider my bad batches to be equal to Jim Beam. If not better.

So I say once you get a still that will be good to run some whiskey through. Start experimenting and you will find something you will like better. I would start with UJSSM recipe. Then start tweaking the grain bill using the same recipe. Just replacing some of the corn with other grains.

But as Rad mentioned the T500 isn't ment to run like you need it to. To make a whiskey. Not safely anyway. Building a pot still head to replace the reflux head you have. And making a controller to control the heating element. Would be where you need to start.

[rgarry]

start off with an UJSSM, use oak to flavor and then go from there. I think you will be happy with the results. I think you will be pleasantly suprised at how good it is. Then once you have this down pat, then try one of the full grain recipes. I haven't bought commercial spirits in well over a year and at that time was just because I ran out of stock.

[Dnderhead]

start off with UJSSM,,when you thank your up to it ,mash the grain and add that,,if your mashing is not up to par,,just add sugar to bring up the SG.

[Bevan]

Dnderhead / rgarry / Prairiepiss
Thanks for your advice , guys....really appreciated.
Seems that the homebrew store I bought my still from was full-of-it when it came to advice - particularly as I specifically stated that bourbon was my drink. Anyway...I'm stuck with my column still for now due to the $ outlay so I'll have to do what I can until I can afford a pot still
I've googled UJSSM and (as you all say) it seems to be better suited to pot stills - but can I run the UJSSM method using my column still or will I be wasting my time due to the column still effectively removing the "goodies" I actually need for bourbon?

Thanks, again

PS - Prairiepiss: I'm not fixated on Jim Beam - it's just been my drop for years (with Coke) - I'd certainly be interested in any good / better alternatives but I'm taking from what you guys have said that need to sort my equipment issues out first before I can try and produce something like the good stuff you're talking about

[Bushman]

Brew stores are trying to sell their product, +1 on Dunderhead's advice!

[rgarry]

Ujssm comes out great in any still ( I have done in pot and flute). It will have less corn flavor carried over but you will still enjoy. No need to google, go to the tried and true section. It's not a collection of recipes but a list of very reproducible recipes that many have had success with. One day, I will have my own there but need many more years or learning.

[Washashore]

The beauty of making your own, is that once you really get into it, you'll be drinking it neat (without coke) and prefer all of your bourbon that way. Good luck.

(I will say though, I tried Knob Creek from the Jim Beam distillery the other week and it was pretty good!)

[Kiwikeg]

Hi Bevan, I have been down this road. I used to make 'bourbon' by oaking neutral and trying essences- some good some not so good.
The advice above to try ujssm is good. its over in tried and true recipes and its a monster of a thread.

It starts getting really good around generation 4 or 5

Ive done it with bread yeast and Redstar premium cuvee yeast and i slightly prefer the redstar over the bread yeast but theres not much differance.
Its a very economical recipe as you reuse the grains and yeast.

ive put it thru my reflux still okay but you get better flavour via a pot still. i remember someone on this forum has modified a T500?

One thing i didnt realise when i started with that recipe is the corn flavours will fade over time with aging and oaking changing into more complex flavour I am sure you will like.

I still cant make a jim beam clone but I enjoy what I make.

P.S. Beware the Home brew shop guy he really just wants to sell you more stuff!!!

[Bevan]

Thanks for advice so far, gents. I'm going to go for the UJSSM approach with my column still.
Small snag I've hit - it seems that trying to get bulk corn in New Zealand is harder than sourcing tiles for the space shuttle (sounds ridiculous, I know). Any other base product I can use as an alternative to corn that might be easier to source?
Thanks
Bevan

[bentstick]

Barley,rye,oats,cornmeal,frozen sweetcorn, or a mixture of them

[Prairiepiss]

Wheat, millet, corn meal, corn flour, oatmeal,

All bran cereal, cornflakes, and barley baby cereal made for a nice faux wheated bourbon.

[Kiwikeg]

Thanks for advice so far, gents. I'm going to go for the UJSSM approach with my column still.
Small snag I've hit - it seems that trying to get bulk corn in New Zealand is harder than sourcing tiles for the space shuttle (sounds ridiculous, I know). Any other base product I can use as an alternative to corn that might be easier to source?
Thanks
Bevan

Head to RD1 or wrightsons or whatever your local farm suppiles place is called and ask for "kibbled maize" its the cracked corn talked about on this site its used as chicken food so also look at the chookfood in pak,n,save they might have plain kibbled maize too.
or good old trademe..
http://www.trademe.co.nz/business-farmi ... 274800.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
a 20kg bag will last forever

[mensdomain]

Head to RD1 or wrightsons or whatever your local farm suppiles place is called and ask for "kibbled maize" its the cracked corn talked about on this site its used as chicken food so also look at the chookfood in pak,n,save they might have plain kibbled maize too.
or good old trademe..
http://www.trademe.co.nz/business-farmi ... 274800.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
a 20kg bag will last forever

Thanks for that info Kiwikeg and don't forget Binn inn as well they have bulk stuff as well.

[Kiwikeg]

How could I have Forgotten dirty ole Binn Inn? its the only place I dont feel judged when buying sugar.

[Bevan]

Really appreciate your help, gents
Found it in 2 minutes with your assistance
Bevan

[Bevan]

Appreciate more help, please....
I've started using UJSSM and have reached the point where my first batch has fermented and is ready to distill (I only have a column still)....and here's where I'm confused!
The recipe says "For your first run it is best to take very conservative cuts. I recommend very generic whiskey cuts, say 80% down to 70%". Can anyone tell me what this means, please?

My column still will produce high purity / clarity alcohol and this (as far as I understand the recipe) is not what I want. My understanding is that by purifying the wash too much (my still gives me 93-95%), I'm effectively removing all the flavours I want for my Bourbon.
If my understanding is correct, how do I use a column still and produce the desired result for my first run?

UJSSM recipe looks great but it's very much centred around using a pot still (for understandable reasons) so any help appreciated

[Washashore]

"The recipe says "For your first run it is best to take very conservative cuts. I recommend very generic whiskey cuts, say 80% down to 70%"

He's advising to select purely the hearts cuts (or mostly hearts). Recycle the heads and tails cuts into the feints jug.

If all you've got is a column still, run her a bit hot and fast to lower the purity and carry over more whiskey like characteristics.

[Bevan]

Appreciate the help, Washashore...
To clarify (and sorry for the thousand questions) - how much of the heads & tails should I recycle - say the first and last 250ml (leaving me with approx 2.5 litres of alcohol not involved in the next run), or is this too much?
Thanks

[Prairiepiss]

Your cuts should be made by smell taste feel and sight. Not numbers. Only keeping what you like. Numbers won't tell you what you like.

Edited to add. If you haven't already. You should read the novice guide to cuts thread.

[Bevan]

Message to Kiwikeg (or anyone else in New Zealand)....
Bit of a cheek this but I was wondering if I could give you a ring seeing as though we're both in NZ (I'm in Auckland)? The replies from the guys to my cries for help have been much appreciated but to be frank (and please don't get offended, guys - I really do appreciate your help), most of it is beyond me. I'm a novice (and I mean a real novice) and all this heads, hearts & tails stuff is not getting me anywhere (not to mention that most of the advice / material available is for a pot...and I've got a column still). I've got the gist of what needs to be done but a 5 minute call would probably clear it up for me once & for all.
Apologies for even asking this but I'm ready to top myself
Thanks
Bevan

[blind drunk]

Apologies for even asking this but I'm ready to top myself

That's a bit harsh. It's supposed to be fun

how much of the heads & tails should I recycle - say the first and last 250ml (leaving me with approx 2.5 litres of alcohol not involved in the next run), or is this too much?

Sorry, don't know much about columns. But to answer your question, you can add all the heads and tails from your first run to your next run and call it your spirit run. Full stop. By doing this, and by running harder like Washashore suggests, you'll potentially get alot of flavor. I'd leave out the foreshots. Then reassess. Might become clearer after that. Take a breath, relax. It gets easier.

[Dnderhead]

the idea of a column/reflux still is to git a neutral,,no heads/tails aloud.tho you can add them to the next run or run them by them self.
you cant really make a flavored spirits with a reflux still.as they tend to make all or nothing,not tapering off as a pot still does.so the tales are harsh or nothing.

[blind drunk]

Have you seen this -

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 15&t=16455

I just did a quick glance, could help you a wee bit?

[Kiwikeg]

PM me if you like... but to summarize what the Seppos are trying to say...to put it in nuzilind that u can understand(i hope )
1-Send your flatmate down to King Dicks to buy a 20pack of cruisers rtds
2- find some flanges to plow the cruisers
3- plow the flanges or share with your flat mates
4- number empty cruiser bottles from 1 to 20.
5- run still and collect in bottles from 1 to 20 in order
6- dump bottle number 1 into gas tank of car (heads)
7- cap bottles loosley so bugs cant get in but fumes can get out.
8- wait a few days
9- take a sip of bottle 10- tastes strong but okay- take water- rinse spit
10- work up and down bottles any that taste shit put aside there will be 2or3 bottles from about bottle 16 that taste like cardboard this is the TAILS
11- there will be bottles from 2 to 5-6 that taste like meths these are FORESHOTS
12- everything in between is HEARTS and therefore drinkable.
13- cut hearts bottles to 40% ABV
14- invite m8s around to drink your moonshine
15- on your next still run add the tails and foreshots jars to your wash immediatly before distilling.

I am happy to assist in any of the above activitys

I am considering setting up a monthly get together of like minded distillers in west auckland if you like i will PM you when we get a venue sorted.

hope this helps

KK

[Bevan]

Kiwikeg
Ta for the info - clear as mud and exactly what I was after. I'm off to get my batch sorted and topping myself now off the agenda.
Certainly keen to catch-up with you & other distillers any time, any place
Thanks again
Bevan

[blind drunk]

Can you by pass the reflux mechanism by adding a worm and a bucket as your product condenser? For when you need a potstill.

[Bevan]

Advice appreciated....
I've had my UJSSM recipe in the fermenter for 9 days now and it's still bubbling - slowly. Recipe talks to 3-4 days fermentation but I'm assuming that the fact that it has been quite cold could possibly be adding to the standard fermentation time (?) It's the first batch of UJSSM I've tried so I'm a little lost as to when it is ready for distilling as I'm only familiar with the process for making clear alcohol from shop-bought alcohol kits. I took a reading and it gives me 1020 (way above the 990 I get from the kits I've been using).
Should I just leave it and be patient or is there something I can do to get it closer to the 990 mark (assuming this is even relevant to this recipe)?
Thanks to anyone that can help
Bevan

[Kiwikeg]

Yeah Bevan,
there are 2 things going on with your brew- dont panic shes all good..

1- its too cold auckland hit a low temp thursday night of 3c, so its time to break out the heat pad.

2- UJSSM will never "finish" but will settle down to a slow rolling ferment. 1020 is still too high I usually get 990 eventually.

Remember we are aiming for quality not quantity.

so hurry up and wait!