Glass still good idea?

[djem]

Hi, as I'm new to this forum I'll start by introducing myself (If you don't care, jump down to the dotted line). I've known about this site for several years but didn't notice the forum until the parent site got redesigned.
I started with making wine 10 years ago, mostly from kits but also fresh fruits. Two years later I built my first still in my dorm room from some heavy duty stainless steel pipe (100mm or so in diameter). With very limited information I used a funnel at the top with a tube to a copper pipe through a liebig made from a cola bottle. Due to the use of pvc it probably wasn't very healthy, but it pronounced drinkable alcohol at about 75% so I was happy. But I borrowed it away and it got lost to the police. After that I tried the so called "Amazing Still" and that put me off distilling for a while (better to drink cheap wine than that shit). Two years later I was lucky enough to find a fine stainless steel reflux still at the scrap yard and bought it for scrap price witch was around $4. That spiked my interest again and I've built several stills since that with my latest being a 42mm bokakob.
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Now to my question. I would like a small countertop reflux still that can be dissembled and stored away. I'd also like to be able to do pot distilling and maybe also essential extraction if I can find a use for it. I have a small 0.75l Al-Ambic still, but besides being too small it took away too much taste to use as a pot still and not enough reflux to make a good reflux still.

My idea now is to buy lab distilling equipment. Besides being 100% glass and looking good it would be highly modular and easy to assemble/disassemble. What makes me worried is that I can't find much information about others using this kind of equipment to make ethanol and thought it best to ask for your opinions.
FYI. I plan to make my own electric heating mantle controlled by solid states to reduce any chance of fires in case of glass breakage.

Here's a concept drawing of what I want.

Thanks.

[Dnderhead]

other than being for experimental purposes I say its no go.

[Prairiepiss]

+1

And I don't know how you could possibly heat a glass boiler efficiently or safely with electric?

[ozone39]

It's all labware (made from corion, or borsoloite). they use a low heat natural gas burner (similar to a Bunsen burner) to heat these things. I think it would work fine, seen these units used quite a bit in the research labs up at the university..just don't eat any butter fingers before handling....

[djem]

I did find a youtube video of someone using this kind of still. At the end of the video you can see the type of still I want with an electric heating mantle. Electric heating mantles wrap around the bottom of the flask and is safer and cheaper to use than gas imo. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaUMDlkjn1M
The still will be mainly for testing out techniques and recipes, if I'll need to make larger quantities I'll use my bokakob.

[Ayay]

A small glass aparatus will work but is slower and less efficient than your intestines; that is you will assimilate the alc quicker and more efficiently by drinking the wine or beer straight.

So the aparatus needs to be bigger, and the bigger it gets the more dangerous is glass. How much boiling hot liquids and flammable gasses can you deal with in a sudden spontaneous release? A litre will perhaps kill your keyboard, scald a knee, or set off the smoke alarm. Twenty litres is too much to trust boiling in a glass container.

[heartcut]

I was a lab rat in the 70's and agree that small, it'd be really hard to accurately make cuts and large enough you'd need a big fire extinguisher and a friend in a non-extradition country on speed dial.

[Rachiu]

I have a "no copper" installation but there are some disadvantages: the copper interacts with some components and cleans the spirit. If you use just glass and/or stainless you will notice a hydrogen sulfide smell (like rotten eggs). I have to purify the spirit by soaking some active carbon in it for 2 weeks and then passing the spirit through a pipe filled with carbon. This cleans really well. It is suitable for neutral alcohol/vodka.

[rad14701]

It doesn't matter how many people have successfully used glass labware for distillation, we will not condone its use due to safety concerns... In a lab environment where small volumes are used and all safety precautions are taken it one thing, but in a house or garage with junk, kids, dogs, and whatever else milling around, as well as flammable materials, not a good idea... We want to convey the utmost in safety here and any use of glass in the still itself should be minimized... Even a sightglass failure could prove catastrophic...

[djem]

So to sum it up, it is not recommended to build this still because of the safety concerning glassware and it's brittle nature. It's small size will make it difficult to do accurate cuts since you got less room to play with. And if you want to drink instead of making drinks this size is bad since it's slow and makes small quantities. Did that cover everything?

One of the reasons why I would like to go down in size has to do with the legal system here. If you are caught distilling alcohol for your own consumption it is punished by a reasonable fine. If there are reasons to believe the alcohol is for selling you'll face prison sentence. With a small still that only makes a bottle per run theres no reason to suspect anything other than own consumption if for some reason the police visits me.

Very nice column you got there Rachiu. Where did you find it?

[Rachiu]

http://www.brouwland.com/en/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow -> "Liqueur/Distillation" -> "distilling column + condenser"

There are NO problems with "safety concerns" as long as you are responsible with what you do. There are some dangers even when you get out of your house isn't it? But there are some dangers even if you stay only in your house (earthquakes).

In my country you can distill your own liqueurs just for your consumption without troubles with legality. If you make huge quantities (many hundreds of liters per year (who count them?)) there CAN BE a theoretical problem if you don't have license and don't pay a lot of taxes and bills (fuck their mothers). There was some reports with people caught but I think they had many enemies around who denounced them. Once I had a neighbor who made alcohol in the bathtub for selling I heard then he spent some years in jail for that.

[rad14701]

Legal concerns are the same in most countries where hobby scale distillation is illegal... And regardless of any advice provided by members, including Rachiu, its use is frowned upon and won't be promoted here... Go talk about its use on another site, but not here... Protecting people from their own ignorance is tough enough... If we drop our guard then the next thing we know someone will have blown themselves up by attempting to distill spirits using a one gallon pickle jar on a gas stove... We have too many novices coming here to be condoning any use of glass, even if you think you are a lab expert... Let's nip it in the bud here, please...

[Rachiu]

Yes, there is troublesome with beginners.
As I know, borosilicate glass should be resistant to heat and thermal shocks. But I had a bad surprise when I went to a friend who boiled the stater for a batch of beer in an erlenmeyer flask (like that in my picture) directly on the gas stove - bad move. Even if the flask was intended for heating directly on the gas flame, it broken. I advised him before to use an asbestos gauze under the flask to diffuse the heat. He was stubborn saying that the glass is thermally-shock-resistant. He lost 20 bucks by his foolish.

I would never encourage some of these improvisations with catastrophic consequences like pickle jar on the stove-top. That sounds terrifying. So maybe is better not to try glass for distillation at all.

[rad14701]

I advised him before to use an asbestos gauze under the flask to diffuse the heat.

I don't think asbestos meets our safety guidelines either...

But funny you mentioned that because I was just wondering earlier today, while discussing Teflon and Alzheimer's, whether my mother still has her asbestos diffuser plate from years ago...

[Ayay]

Glass is not a good idea no matter how it's justified. Basic principles are the rule here. Unravelling the finer points can lead to innovations, but the innovations must pass the most severe tests for a long period, verified by skeptical independents before they become acceptable for the mainstream.

And this site has the mainstream in focus. Your innovations must be 110% proven before they can be recognised.

[Rachiu]

I really appreciate your concern. Yes it is, the asbestos is a contaminant and should be avoided. Teflon is toxic and carcinogen as well, aluminum pots so, some plastics, burned fats and oils (especially butter), grill and so on.

As well, some toxic amount of copper can leach into the spirit by a not well maintained copper rig. It makes oxides. I have a friend who went to do some laboratory analyses to his spirit... the amounts of copper was well above the allowed doses.
The oxides can be cleaned by vigorous distilling some water with vinegar and than you should anoint the copper with honey until the next session of distilling. The honey isolates it from oxidation.
If you would see what happens here, at the countryside, you would horrify... stills with lead and tin bonds, uncut spirits, even fore-shots thrown to the neck, and other nasty things that I couldn't tell... very cheap but the death of liver and neurons! I don't even get close to that poisons. This is why I prefer my still. It is 100% food-grade even with the potential dangers mentioned.

[lickermaker]

It doesn't matter how many people have successfully used glass labware for distillation, we will not condone its use due to safety concerns... In a lab environment where small volumes are used and all safety precautions are taken it one thing, but in a house or garage with junk, kids, dogs, and whatever else milling around, as well as flammable materials, not a good idea... We want to convey the utmost in safety here and any use of glass in the still itself should be minimized... Even a sightglass failure could prove catastrophic...

you shouldn't have junk, kids, dogs or anything else milling around any type of still. no wonder your worried about safty!!

[rad14701]

you shouldn't have junk, kids, dogs or anything else milling around any type of still. no wonder your worried about safty!!

I don't have any of those so you're obviously not talking to me...

Well, I have two full grown sons and two granddaughters, one that's seven that I've never seen and one that's three I've only seen four times... But I digress...

[lickermaker]

It doesn't matter how many people have successfully used glass labware for distillation, we will not condone its use due to safety concerns... In a lab environment where small volumes are used and all safety precautions are taken it one thing, but in a house or garage with junk, kids, dogs, and whatever else milling around, as well as flammable materials, not a good idea... We want to convey the utmost in safety here and any use of glass in the still itself should be minimized... Even a sightglass failure could prove catastrophic...

you shouldn't have junk, kids, dogs or anything else milling around any type of still. no wonder your worried about safty!!

Nor do you or I know if Djem, or Rachiu has any of those things. So you obviously not talking to any of us either.You must be talking to people who are junky,clumbsy and run paint can or pickle jar stills in the house with kids knocking things over,probably not smart enough to do any research, read this site, and distill the proper way anyway! All stills have flamable material in them so agreed that safety precautions should always be followed.So if the proper safty precations are followed and one uses the right type of glassware it is possible to run a full glass still at any scale and produce good clean pure product.I understand your fear of glass not used correctly but the fact of the matter is that any still run improperly in bad conditions can result in a catastrophic falure.You personally not condoning it does not mean that it can not be done if researched and performed correctly

[lickermaker]

+1

And I don't know how you could possibly heat a glass boiler efficiently or safely with electric?

water bath.. think double boiler!

[Prairiepiss]

Wow dude. If you want to use glass by all means use it. Just don't expect to change how others feel about it. And MK need to go to extremes about it. The point was you never know what will happen. And if you make it as safe as you possibly can from the getgo. There will be less of a chance of something bad happening.

If someone ardently bumps a copper still with something like a collection jar. Or what ever? It's not going to break. Hell I could hit mine with a ball bat and it would still be safe. But glass on the other hand. Can break quite easily. Hell I had the bottom fall out of a glass bowl the other day. I set it on the counter then picked it back up and the bottom didn't want to stay on it. And the browny mix I had in it went everywhere. Now what if this had been a glass still and a part of it broke off. Dropping high ABV liquid in a flame or even a electric burner. Now you have a flame possibly a still that is still spewing high ABV alcohol vapors. A collection jar full of alcohol? This could get ugly quick. And could stem from nothing more the water hose feeding the condenser springing a leak onto the hot glass.

But yrs it can be done safely. They do it in labs all the time. But why would you take the chance. And put whatever you have in jeopardy. House, family, pets, hell even upstairs neighbors if you got them. Murphys law does apply to everything.

I trust myself when running a still. But I know things can happen. Things you would never think would happen. So I don't trust myself to run a full glass still anywhere I could cause damage to more then just me. But if you feel so strongly about it. Knock yourself out.

[lickermaker]

I was a lab rat in the 70's and agree that small, it'd be really hard to accurately make cuts and large enough you'd need a big fire extinguisher and a friend in a non-extradition country on speed dial.

use a cow for separation!

[Prairiepiss]

lickermaker from looking through your posts they lead me to think the only reason your here is to discuss or defend the use of glass in a still? This subject has been debated way to much. There are other parts of the hobby that could use more discussion on. That would better help the hobby. And others. Don't you think?

[lickermaker]

lickermaker from looking through your posts they lead me to think the only reason your here is to discuss or defend the use of glass in a still? This subject has been debated way to much. There are other parts of the hobby that could use more discussion on. That would better help the hobby. And others. Don't you think?

not true. I am interested in building a glass still and discussing the pros and cons,due to the fact that I see this prcoess used daily,and as I've stated I can accuire labware fairly cheap comared to large gauge copper or stainless, but not the only reason I"m here. I am here to learn what I don't know, discuss and defend what I do know to be true and help everyone learn the best,cleanest,safest and most efficient way to persue this hobby.If you are interested in discussing other parts of the hobby that need to be covered further please feel free to throw them out and I may comment on them as well.
Thanks prairie and I appologize I didn't mean to sound like I was arguing just for fun

[Prairiepiss]

Ok off the safety aspect of it. How about we look at the size issue.

How big of a still can you make with glass ware? Really? For the cost of a good sized still that will produce a usefull amount of alcohol. And that you can actually make cuts with. I'm sory anything under 5 to 7 gallons is worthless in my eyes. Unless you are only using it for flavoring after it was distilled in a larger still? Even if you can get a discount on it. Would it not still be cheaper to build with stainless or copper? How much would a good size glass still setup cost? Including all the needed hardware like stands burners what ever else you would need to run it right.

I could build a copper and stainless 5 gallon pot still for around $50 if I really wanted to. That all new parts from a store.

[lickermaker]

Ok off the safety aspect of it. How about we look at the size issue.

How big of a still can you make with glass ware? Really? For the cost of a good sized still that will produce a usefull amount of alcohol. And that you can actually make cuts with. I'm sory anything under 5 to 7 gallons is worthless in my eyes. Unless you are only using it for flavoring after it was distilled in a larger still? Even if you can get a discount on it. Would it not still be cheaper to build with stainless or copper? How much would a good size glass still setup cost? Including all the needed hardware like stands burners what ever else you would need to run it right.

I could build a copper and stainless 5 gallon pot still for around $50 if I really wanted to. That all new parts from a store.

As large as you want it, a twenty ltr flask is five gallons, or I can still use my 15.5 gallon keg. I have a 4" diameter by 60" tall glass column that was free!I'm thinking plates.I've stated I'll make cuts with a cow that I got for ten dollars, so already I'm larger and cheaper than you mention????
and please inform me where you find a useable length of two inch or larger copper and all the fittings for under fifty????

[jimmyjames1981]

Dang you are one pissed of dude..... I can find every size of copper imatineable at my local scrap yard for 25 cents over scrap price and its all new stuff, I'm sure its all stolen but I could care less....

I have no clue how you think your going to make a glass still for under $50.... OK maybe you got a piece of glass tube for free....how are you going to fasten it to your boiler? Super glue? You would need flanges to compress the glass onto seals, and then crazy fittings for the deflag condenser etc, if you did build it for under $50 you either stole all of the parts to build it correctly or its a big pile of shit just waiting for catastrophic failure. I read to many posts like this that make me cringe... building stills that are dangerous or flat out won't work/or poison you.... sure a glass column could be built, but building it right is not cheap, a correctly built glass column would cost 5 times as much as its copper like. I challenge you to build a correctly working safe glass still for $50, if you'd like I could build 2 copper stills for $50..... either start building something and put your money where your mouth is or...... go the f--- home.....

[lickermaker]

Dang you are one pissed of dude..... I can find every size of copper imatineable at my local scrap yard for 25 cents over scrap price and its all new stuff, I'm sure its all stolen but I could care less....

I have no clue how you think your going to make a glass still for under $50.... OK maybe you got a piece of glass tube for free....how are you going to fasten it to your boiler? Super glue? You would need flanges to compress the glass onto seals, and then crazy fittings for the deflag condenser etc, if you did build it for under $50 you either stole all of the parts to build it correctly or its a big pile of shit just waiting for catastrophic failure. I read to many posts like this that make me cringe... building stills that are dangerous or flat out won't work/or poison you.... sure a glass column could be built, but building it right is not cheap, a correctly built glass column would cost 5 times as much as its copper like. I challenge you to build a correctly working safe glass still for $50, if you'd like I could build 2 copper stills for $50..... either start building something and put your money where your mouth is or...... go the f--- home.....

I am not pissed off about anything. And JJ I am proud that you can find copper at your local scap yard, I doubt you get every size imaginable. I can not! Even if you or I could, $.25 over scrap for a 2"x48" or large stick would not be under fifty dollars.I can not build the whole glass still at the size I'd like for under fifty.I understand it's gonna take money and proper fittings to be correct,nothing stolen or shotty like super glue! All stills have a certain amout of danger involved that is why safty and correct materials is the issue. I am not building anything that won't work or anything that could poison anyone.Sure a 2" dia. by 48" tall packed or plated copper column can be built also not cheap.I'll challenge you as well to find a 4"dia by 60"tall copper pipe for even under $100.I have started building and don't appreciate you bashing, obviously without reading all the details. thank you for your input

[Pikluk]

if you guys are pushing the safety factor this far as telling someone not to use a glass still the kind that is used in labs all over the world everyday.
i think we should tell everyone to stop using propane burner in my opinion its far more dangerous to have a open flame near a still then using a glass still in a water bath that is electric heated.

has with anything that could possibly be dangerous don't cut corner get the proper stands and clamps to hold your rig.
read,read and read some more to be sure you know what your doing.
if you look hard enough there's plenty of training video on the net on the how to use glassware.

how about knifes in the kitchen maybe we should put a stop to that too could cut a finger....

[jimmyjames1981]

Yes I can find every size imaginable, I purchased a 120"x 5" piece of dwv copper pipe for $100, last week I purchased a 71" piece of 3" type L for $61, a couple weeks back I purchased a 48" piece of 2" type L for $29, if you have patients you can find anything you want, I'm good at sourcing stuff and am a fabricator by trade, all of the plates for a copper column can be made with scrap pipe and a hand drill, now if your not a handy person or good at sourcing stuff and order every single piece for your column brand new than yes it would be expensive, but with a glass column there's nothing cheap about it, and there's no "glass scrap yard" you can buy used Pyrex borosilicate tube from, and then cutting or drilling it is out of the question , not too mention almost all borosilicate tube is untempered with a rated temp between 375-400 degrees and is much more prone to braking than its tempered like which is about 5x the cost, also borosilicate tube isn't rated to have thermal differences, the bottom of the column will be 200 degrees plus and near the deflag is could be under 100a decrees causing the glass to expand and contract more in different areas creating stress in the tube, that will make it even more prone to breaking. Like I said a proper glass column could be made for a ton of money, and I have to disagree about the argument that labs use Pyrex everyday and its safe, well labs use beakers and peetree dishes and not 60" tall glass columns on a daily basis, I go by Murphy's law that something will happen, like prairiepiss stated, It would take nothing short of a ball bat to even cause visual damage to my still