Actual ramifications of getting busted

[Captainfill]

This thread is a simple, yet extremely complex question of the 'what ifs' and 'worst case' situations of ever getting busted producing spirits for personal consumption by either a local or federal agency.

The reason for this question is because I plan on creating and producing a variety of distilled delectables entirely for personal consumption and crafting. My ultimate ambitions over years in this endeavor will be to at some point legitimize and start my own DSP. Much like you wouldn't expect a chef to start a restaurant without cooking food, I don't expect a distiller to start a DSP without experience and a developed and refined product.

I have read through legalities on both local (state) and federal levels until my eyes reached the point of bleeding and ultimately, the verdict is clear - illegal. Penalty for each infraction is a very generic up to $10,000 or up to 5 years in prison and by looking at http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/5601" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow a single personal distiller might face up to 5 infractions ($50,000 - 25 years, respectively.) While the fine would make any man sick, the 25 years is completely outrageous.

I've been trying to research stories and verdicts of the poor chaps who did run into the arm of the law and figure out what exactly they got charged with and what type of penalty they endured. Unfortunately however, I cannot find such a case.

So my question to you is under your experience and knowledge in distilling legal history, what might one expect for legal penalty? Could they seize my house/property because it had a distilling apparatus on it? Will the few drops of liquid send you to the slammer for 1/4 century?

Please not that this is totally worst case and I am quite aware of the golden rules of distilling which is shut the f*ck up about it and keep it to your own damn bizniz and never to sell any of it.

Thank you for any and all feedback, I want to be cautious and aware of the possibilities while keeping my dreams and ambitions afloat!

[MuleKicker]

Every case is different. Depends on where your at, whose the judge/jury/prosecutor. If you were lucky enough to get jury full of us, you would prolly be aquitted. However, if you got a jury full of the oposite, you would get the book thrown at you. So many variables, this question is impossible to answer.

[Bayou-Ruler]

Every case is different. Depends on where your at, whose the judge/jury/prosecutor. If you were lucky enough to get jury full of us, you would prolly be aquitted. However, if you got a jury full of the oposite, you would get the book thrown at you. So many variables, this question is impossible to answer.

+1 Indeed, The bottom line is money plain and simple. The Department Of The Treasury, Alcohol And Tobacco Tax And Trade Bureau is concerned with one thing, Tax Money.

If you do get caught distilling ethanol illegally you will never get permitted. Matter of fact you cant get a DSP or AFP permit if you have a felony criminal conviction on your record.

I guess the real question you have to ask yourself is..Is it worth risking losing everything I own as well as my liberty to distill ethanol illegally?

[1vertical]

I found this today
http://www2.jcfloridan.com/news/2012/ma ... r-3504748/

Don't sell it.....!!

[Tater]

Might want to do a search . http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 5&start=15

[1vertical]

Might want to do a search . http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 5&start=15

Sorry bout the redundant information. It just seemed to fit this topic.

[Kas]

So here in the UK, according to wikipedia the max penalty is a £1000 fine and confiscation of the equipment.
Now of course this would be bad, but it sounds alot better than if one were to get caught in america.
Is this really all they do? no prison sentence or anything?

[WalkingWolf]

One would have to consider the ripple effect as well. Should you so happen to maintain a professional license, issued by your state of residence, to earn your daily wage then I'd think there is a stipulation buried in the mumitia should one be charged with a felony. Said license may be suspended pending the outcome of the investigation. Should the individual be found guilty, then you can fill in the blanks . . . . . .

I fall into this category. I do feel fortunate that in this general geographic location law enforcement doesn't seem to have a hard-on for the average home distiller. There have been several instances of opportunity over the past couple of years that law enforcement has just looked the other way. I will in no way push my luck though.

[Kas]

When you say a professional license, do you mean in terms of alcohol brewing, selling or distilling?
Or do you mean any kind of license not related to alcohol may be revoked?

[WalkingWolf]

When you say a professional license, do you mean in terms of alcohol brewing, selling or distilling?
Or do you mean any kind of license not related to alcohol may be revoked?

License not related to alcohol.

[Bayou-Ruler]

When you say a professional license, do you mean in terms of alcohol brewing, selling or distilling?
Or do you mean any kind of license not related to alcohol may be revoked?

EMT's & Paramedics cant have felonys for sure, not to mention may other's

[Mr.Brown]

http://www2.jcfloridan.com/news/2012/ma ... r-3504748/

gotta love how the guy in that story was Charged with posession of more than a gallon of shine, and also charged with posession of less than a gallon of shine. WTF

[Braz]

gotta love how the guy in that story was Charged with posession of more than a gallon of shine, and also charged with posession of less than a gallon of shine. WTF

That's just the prosecutor piling on charges so they can later offer to drop some of them in order to get a plea bargain. The favorite around here is to get a DWI suspect, order him out of the car and then add on public intoxication since he is drunk outside the car, in public.

[rad14701]

The favorite around here is to get a DWI suspect, order him out of the car and then add on public intoxication since he is drunk outside the car, in public.

Or driving out of restriction of corrective lenses by wearing contact lenses instead of glasses...

[heartcut]

Northern California had a thing where a policeman would speak to a drunk through his front door, ask him to step outside and take him to jail for PI. Got a friend that knows about that in a personal way...

[fullhouse]

had a local around here get busted for selling to a undercover ABC...says they were tipped off by him buying 300 lbs of sugar...well they busted him with about 4 gallons of shine.the sugar (aparently over 500 lbs) a still,several large fermentors,and 400 plastic milk jugs...so far from what ive seen in the papers and heard he was charged by the county for alcohol in a dry county (was around 300.00 fine) and was pending federal charges ...havent heard another word about it....but "local around here" is very small and word spreads like wildfire so i got my ears tuned and this has been about 2 months ago.

[Dan P.]

So here in the UK, according to wikipedia the max penalty is a £1000 fine and confiscation of the equipment.
Now of course this would be bad, but it sounds alot better than if one were to get caught in america.
Is this really all they do? no prison sentence or anything?

Incorrect. Maximum £5000

[moose11]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP6lbqJ2 ... ure=relmfu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Here's an example the penalties in Canada, the video is kinda poor, but it is entertaining.

[RumRaider]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP6lbqJ2 ... plpp_video

Here's an example the penalties in Canada, the video is kinda poor, but it is entertaining.

Good for Canada, not much of a penalty and the old guy gets some attention and has fun.

[moose11]

I think home distilling is pretty rare in Canada, I could be wrong but I don't think the police would be putting a lot of resources into pursuing moonshining after what came of 'all Bob in court.

[RumRaider]

The mounties really stepped on their dicks using 10 cops and an 18 wheeler to get a pensioner distilling on his stovetop! They got more resources than brains, that is about all they proved.

[DistillerofDisdain]

I spoke with a local Attorney who represents a number of Medical MJ shops about home distilling, and he did some research. He found only a handful of cases where the fullest extent of the law was handed to a offender... all of which were during prohibition. Since prohibition, according to his research, there has never been an offender handed any more than 2 years in prison, and 10k in fines. Do I want to trade a bottle of homemade hooch for 10k? Uhhhh.... no. But for every 10k fine there is tons of non felony tax evasion charges that carry only a $500 fine and no jail time, and unless your selling it or transporting it, it was always dropped to a misdemeanor.

So... as with anything we do in life, there are risks. How much of a risk are you willing to take? Gotta answer that for yourself.

DoD

[Richt1304]

[quote="1vertical"]I found this today
http://www2.jcfloridan.com/news/2012/ma ... r-3504748/

I would say that if you make it and sell gallons out of the back of your truck to strangers, you might as well put a sign on the side of your vehicle. In Missouri, there were a couple of cases prosecuted last year and that was due to blatant sales by idiots. Chances are, the ATF agents have much more on their plates and really don't care but if they stumble across a case, they may pursue it.

[Durace11]

If that doesn't lay it out why you shouldn't tell, sell or yell then you probably deserve to get busted. Giving it away to friends is one thing but selling it to just anyone walking through a public parking lot is just plain not smart. You could be selling it to an off duty cop as he's walking to the auction house to bid on something or an undercover ATF agent...

[Prairiepiss]

I can't get to that linked page. It says its inactive?

What kind of idiot would sell out the back of his vehicle to anybody? Wow!

[Durace11]

copied from the actual article:

A Washington County man who lives just over the Jackson County line is accused of selling moonshine whiskey in the parking lot of a Graceville auction house on State Road 2. Authorities say the auction house and individuals associated with it are not implicated in the incident.

Working together from a tip that came in to the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, Washington and Jackson authorities helped organize an undercover operation which led to an agent allegedly purchasing a gallon of moonshine from 69-year-old Paul Edward Daniels.

Authorities say a tipster had alerted them that allegedly Daniels regularly sold gallons of the liquor. Investigators say the controlled sale took place “in the shadows of the parking lot,” where Daniels allegedly used a Chevy pick-up truck as his rolling store.

He lives on Kent Mill Road. Although his postal address is listed as in Alford, his physical address actually lies in Washington County.

There, after the undercover whiskey buy, authorities say they subsequently seized a homemade moonshine still, some finished moonshine and a bit of mash, which is a fermented liquid that can be distilled into an alcoholic beverage.

Investigators also say they collected raw materials, such as whole corn, rye, oak chips, yeast and other materials commonly used in the manufacture of distilled spirits. Some plastic and glass containers were also seized.

Authorities report that criminal charges are pending in Jackson and Washington counties against Daniels, including the sale or delivery of untaxed liquor, possession of more than one gallon of moonshine, possession of a moonshine still and possession of less than one gallon of moonshine.

He was arrested Monday and is expected to make his first court appearance in each jurisdiction soon.

[Prairiepiss]

Authorities report that criminal charges are pending in Jackson and Washington counties against Daniels, including the sale or delivery of untaxed liquor, possession of more than one gallon of moonshine, possession of a moonshine still and possession of less than one gallon of moonshine.

Wonder if these are actual charges. Or just the medias interpretation of them?

Possession of a gallon and under a gallon?
Possession of a still?

If those are actual charges. That means there are specific laws that cover those things. And it sounds like its state not federal going after him?

[Durace11]

Wonder if these are actual charges. Or just the medias interpretation of them?

Possession of a gallon and under a gallon?
Possession of a still?

If those are actual charges. That means there are specific laws that cover those things. And it sounds like its state not federal going after him?

I was thinking that was strange also, it's probably a felony for over a gallon and a misdemeanor for under a gallon so they are charging him with both in case he plea-bargains down they can drop the felony and stick him with the misdemeanor. or drop the felony to a misdemeanor and get him on a double misdemeanor. Definitely sounds like local and not federal. Eitherway, this guy is reported as 69 years old so likely he will do little time and probably just get hit with a big ol' fine to recoop the unpaid taxes. Probably, he screwed himself financially for the rest of his life.

[Seanjohn19]

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Here's an example the penalties in Canada, the video is kinda poor, but it is entertaining.

This was a great video! Bobs the shit