UJSSM Question,

[mrwoody1985]

today i ran my 2nd ferment of UJSSM and have a few questions, in the tried and true thread it states hearts would be between 80%-70% i know that its not recommended to go off alcohole percentage for cuts but im still trying to teach myself taste feel and smell, the problem is my run started at 65%. so obviously i cant start cuts at 80% lol.. i defiantly put 4kg of sugar in mash and 25% backset like suggested. ive put aside what i think is hearts but is it possible that i didn't get any hearts? the FG was 0.990

[Odin]

If you run your still very hard, you will get a lot of smearing. heads & tails into hearts. But I think you might want to leave your hearts (or what you collected as hearts) air out for a day or two. Then try again.

Odin.

[Barney Fife]

It's been many years since I read the UJSM instructions/details, but 70-80% is not going to happen with most pot stills, even if we run them extremely slow, I suspect. At least mine won't.

Nonetheless, a great way to begin learning where the cuts are is to collect in small jars or glasses, and place them on a bench/table/shelf, in the order they came out at, and after the run, take a whiff of each one, making mental(or written, if that's what you prefer, and you should, at first, write it down) notes on what each one seems like to you. Somewhere in the middle jars/glasses should be the "hearts". Leave the jars/glasses out in the open overnight(cover with paper towels or coffee filters to keep bugs out), and repeat the next day or evening, to get an idea of what happens when they're allowed to air out for a while.

[Odin]

+1 on Barney's comments!

Kiwi wrote a detailed instruction on it:

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 46&t=13261

An enjoyable read, if I might say so.

Odin.

[CuWhistle]

I don't think I can get my pot still to put out 80% either. Not unless I want to take all day to do a 25 litre wash which I will try. I've just done my 1st gen run and after the foreshots it started at only 65%. Temperature adjusted came down to about 62% once cooled and aired overnight. I collected in small jars (4 X 250 ml) then went a little bigger for a couple of jars (4 X 500ml - 600 ml) then went back to smaller ones for the end of the run once it dropped below 50% towards the end of the 8th jar. I kept 2 litres out of the middle which smelt and tasted pretty good and it averaged out to only about 55%. The rest I put into a bottle to re run with the next wash. The highs and lows averaged out to just under 40%. There was a definate difference in the cuts / jars and the middle big jars were pretty good by comparison to the heads and tails. Pretty easy cuts in my opinion.

I was thinking of doing this a few times then doing a slow spirits run once I have a fair bit. Either that or I'll just see how it tastes once aired out and cut to proof on a small sample and then decide from there. Whatever I choose I'll be putting some oak in it and leaving it sit for a while.

The stuff I took out of the first wash (pre addition of backset) I blended with some Neutral that I'd already soaked in Bourbon Barrel Chunks (so bourbon) and it is delicious. Very light in colour and tastes a little like CC but better. Even the wifey likes it.

I think you would need to be running either super slow or using a thumper to get 80% from this.

[mrwoody1985]

Was beginning to question myself but it defiantly says 80%-70%. Here's a copy n paste from recipe
Distill your whiskey in the same manner you did during your first run, being conservative with your cuts until you gain more skill. Anything collected under 80% ABV on this run is considered a Sour Mash whiskey. Congratulations! This spirit is a palatable moonshine when collected directly out of the still.

Collect your run down to your stopping point. Again, I recommend 70% ABV for beginners, perhaps a few degrees into the 60's if you are bold. Save all of the spirit run as good sippin' whiskey.

Maybe that's from a reflux still? Or perhaps that's 80-70 proof? Dunno. Got me beat

[rad14701]

You'll need a 14% - 16% wash to hit ~62% ABV initially out of a pot still... If the pot still provides some reflux then the %ABV would be several percent higher throughout the run... A second distillation would increase the overall %ABV...

[Odin]

I guess some of the confusion is that UJ used a detuned boka, or at least some kinda fractionating still detuned.

I usually get to 30 to 40% on one run. A second run will take it to 60 to 70%. But I start with lower abv. More like 10%.

Regular pot still that is. One that resembles Samohon's build thread.

Odin.

[CuWhistle]

So I ask this question of anyone else with experiences similar to Woody and myself in this situation,

Is my middle product (2 litres @ 55%) good to go as it is? Cut to proof, oaked and aged of course. It seems fine to me even though it is nowhere near the 94-95% I'm getting from BirdWatchers and my CM Reflux still. This is as I expected and I'm quite happy with it.

OR

Am I better off to collect several batches, say 10 to 12 litres, dilute it down to 15 or 16 litres @ 40%, then do another run through the pot still?

What is the benefit of diluting 55% single still, back down to 40% so you can then redistill it to come out at 70% - 80%, which you then need to cut back to 40% ABV for consumption?

The way I see it is that by doing this, you will probably lose some flavour, but it will allow you to make cuts out of your cuts which will help reduce the smearing affect present in the first run and probably give you a smoother product.

I'll ask my other question over in the Tried and True Recipes UJSSM.

[mash rookie]

If I recall the instructions that was referring to the second generation where he recommended adding back all of the first run before distilling.

The statement should be read as that anything above 80% is not considered sour mash. Whether the second run through on your pot still or first through a reflux still the spirit should be taken off at no higher that 150-160 proof to retain flavor.

I run my UJ fast through my flute 150-170 P and collect deep into the tails. When blending I am careful to avoid heads but usually add a fair amount of tails for flavor.

Yes, CuWhistle. You are good to go. After blending I dilute to 100p for oaking. Some guys go as high as 125p That is preference. Lower ABV on oak is a little darker and richer. Higher ABV is smooth but not as rich.

[Prairiepiss]

You can do it any way you want. It's your drink. If you like it drink it. If you want to experiment and try a second run do it.

If it came off the still at 55% and you like it. I would throw it on some oak and let it age a bit at 55%. Then try it as its aging till it gets to where you think it should be.

You guys are over thinking this. This is a base recipe. That you can adjust to your liking. Not only the recipe but also the way you run it. Run it like any other whiskey. There is only one rule. Do it safely.

Run it slow and low for a single run. You get what you get.
Run it fast for a stripping run then dilute with water and do a slow spirit run. You get what you get.
Run it fast for a stripping run then dilute with backset for a slow spirit run. You get what you get.
Dilute to 40% for higher ABV.
Dilute to 20% or 30% for more flavor.

There are so many way to akin this cat. You just need to figure out what works for you. We can't tell you what this is. You need to experiment and find out what that is. That's a big fun part of this hobby. Now get to having fun.

[CuWhistle]

OK. I'm good on it now. That is all sort of what I thought was going on. The recipe is just a base and do what you like from there. Got it. Too easy.

New rule. Don't too much. Use spirits to dull thinking if necessary.

[irishcarbomb]

here's what i've been doing. Just ran my fifth gen, pot still.

10 gal still charge, collect and dump 8oz foreshots which comes off around 65-70%

65 to about 55% collected as heads, about 2 quarts.

55 to 40% kept as hearts, about a gallon.

40 to whenever i feel like stopping, usually 2 to 4 quarts depending on how late it is.

Saving heads/tails as feints for an all feints run.

I blend two quart jars to 50ish% for oak, the rest gets diluted to 40% to keep white or make apple pie

this is after i already figured where i liked my cuts by collecting in upwards of 30 jars. now that i've got it figured out by taste/smell and correlation to abv i just use a parrot. saves on the clean up. your results may vary.

[CuWhistle]

That's what I thought. Once you know how your still runs you can do it by quantity as long as your charge / wash is pretty good. It has taken me no time at all and only a couple of runs to understand how it is working for me and my rigs. I actually anticipated the sized jars I needed to use on a pot still run by what I've experienced and read in only 3 months in order to facilitate easy cuts.