Distilling Help Needed

[Ben the Stiller]

Hi -I'm new to this forum and look forward to advice from all you smart people. I built a still from a beer keg with 3 1300 watt heaters and added a 46" packed column. I run 12 gallons of mash. I watch the temp gauge in the head section of the column begin rising rapidly and then it levels off at 195 degrees, which is odd because it should flatten at 173 (in fact I live at 7500 feet in Colorado so it should be more like 168 to adjust for altitude). I dump the first "little bit" of product since I'm hearing that isn't so good for you (contains nasty light ends??). I sample my wash (if that's what the moonshine is called) every 1/2 liter or so. My first sample ran 180 proof, the second around 170 proof and third about 160. The next sample was closer to 150 proof. I may need to check the accuracy of my thermometer cuz that temperature has me puzzled (even though I'm getting a really good first cut).
So, my questions are:
Is that gradual loss of proof kinda what I should expect in the process?
At what point should I stop collecting? I read some stuff in the forum on when to cut off by smell, but my nose isn't that good.
Should I keep the 150 proof or is that brain killer material?
Does anyone have a good recipe and process for gin?

thanks in advance

[rubber duck]

That doesn't sound like a reflux still to me, or at least that's not how any of mine have run.

Do you have a reflux coil or deflegamator on the top of your packed column?

[Prairiepiss]

I think he has built that old style cm. The not so world class still. I could be wrong just going by clues he has left.

If you would please give us a pic of your still.

[rubber duck]

I think he has built that old style cm. The not so world class still. I could be wrong just going by clues he has left.

If you would please give us a pic of your still.

AHHH, yep that's probably the problem.

On your cuts the first part is what will give you a headache, that's the heads or as the old timers call it the scull pop. The last parts are the tails, they taste like the tail end of a dog hence the name. You can't make cuts by volume, it has to be done by taste and smell. If you can't smell it then who cares? If you want to make clean cuts and you can't smell then just take the middle third of the run and recycle the rest, that will get you pretty close.

For a gin recipe just search for one, they're all pretty good. You could also PM KIWI, he's not on much but he's a frigging genius especially with gin.

[rad14701]

I am changing the title of this topic and moving it to a more appropriate forum...

We need to know more about the type of still you are trying to run in order to be of much help but this definitely doesn't sound like a reflux still... A pot still would start stabilizing at ~195F if the wash is in the ~14% - 15% ABV range...

[Ben the Stiller]

Hi Folks - thanks for all the responses. This is my second attempt to reply - I think I screwed the last one up.

A picture of my lash-up is attached. I use a John Deere trailer as a reservoir for the condenser because water is pretty precious where we live so I don't want to do a once-through process. The column is 4" diam copper about 40" tall, packed with small river rock and marbles. As you can see, I have built a coil in the head section although I haven't been using it (maybe that's the problem). I was having a difficult time making any product when I ran the coil. I had operated a still in Saudi Arabia many years ago following "The Blue Flame". They said if you insulate the column you probably need to run the cooling coil, but if you leave it uninsulated you wouldn't have to. Bad advice?

My "recipe" is 25 pounds of sugar, 1 pound of Fleischman's bread yeast (probably overkill) and 12 gallons of water. I run three heaters for about an hour and when I see the temperature in the head begin to rise (it takes off pretty quickly), I unplug two heaters and just run one.

So, I'm hoping you can offer some recommendations. Also, should I dump all the product I have in the still and re-run it? I could either mix it with enough water to get it above the heating elements or dump it in with a new mash.

Thanks again

ben

[Prairiepiss]

Let's start with your wash recipe. Ditch it and find one in the tried and true section. The recipe you are using doesn't provide needed nutrients for the yeast.

Still looks like some sort of cm still. If you are not using the reflux coil. It's just a pot still. Packing or not. No difference. In order to use the coil and get a higher proof. You will need to adjust the coolant flow through the coil. The reason its called a cooling management is you control the still with the amount of coolant you let flow through the condenser. So if you are just turning flow on and not adjusting it down. It won't work. Lots more research is in order for you on your still as a cm reflux still. Other wise research pot stills and run it that way. The cm mod thread link in my signature mite help you?

And please tell me that collection jug is not plastic?

[Richard7]

Looks like a plastic take off hose as well That stuff has to go.
+1 on what Mr. Piss said about the recipe. That much sugar would work in about 30 gallons of water and the nutrients are a must or your yeast will just give up and die with allot of sugar left in the wash. Maybe try birdwatchers or Rads Allbran but check out "tried and true recipes" for sure! Good luck to ya and keep at it. This forum is a wealth of info. Keep safe man....get the plastic off the still!

[Ben the Stiller]

Thanks for all the good advice. I got rid of all the plastic and have just started a "Tried and True" recipe. I also saw Prairiepiss' recommendation on a centering ring. My column is 4" diameter, so I bought a stainless steel floor shower strainer and placed it just below the reflux head (between the reflux flange and the column flange). The floor drain is solid around the edges and perforated in the middle, so I thought that might do the trick.

However, I'm bumpuzzled. I took the product from my first run (1 1/2 gallons) and dumped it in 12 gallons of water (to stay above the heating elements) and re-ran it. When the temperature in the reflux head hit 165 I turned the CM cooling water on to the reflux tower - and nothing happened. I let it run for about 20 minutes at 172 degrees (and I'm at 7500 feet) - nary a drop. So, my first question is, why wasn't anything coming out at 172 degrees?

I began throttling back the water and watched the temp in the reflux head go up to about 190. I continued running at around 195 degrees got good flow and took 6 samples. All were between 180 and 190 proof. Based on the feedback you gave me earlier, this is running like a pot still, not a reflux still. But, can you get that high of proof from a pot operation?

My biggest concern (or puzzlement) is why I don't make product using the CM reflux head at (or a little above) the boiling point of alcohol?

Thanks for your guidance.

ben

[Dnderhead]

where is your thermometer placed?
it should be at the takeoff.
if its a cm then you regulate the reflux/take off with the cooling water.it cant be off and on.
basically by regulating how much cooling you regulate how much vapor can bypass the reflux condenser.so if to much cooling "you have shut the door" to little and its open all the way and you let all out.

[tom sawyer]

If you dump 1.5gal of alcohol in 12gal of waterthen the most your low wines would be is about 10%, probably a little less. If you go to the parent site at the following link, you'll find that a 10% ABV solution begins to boil at 199F. The boiling point of the mix depends on the amount of each in the mix. Had you not diluted with so much water, you might have started boiling a lot closer to the boiling point fo the pure ethanol.

http://homedistiller.org/theory/theory/strong" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[Ben the Stiller]

I have the thermometer in the middle of the reflux cooling coil so it should be very close to the outlet temp. I tried to insert a picture off my camera, but I don't know how. My intent was not to turn the cooling water off/on, but to find the flow to manage the reflux head temp.

So, with a CM design, what temperature do I try to control the reflux column at? All this time I thought I controlled it to the boiling point of alcohol (172.8F or so). I checked the Home Distillation website (good reading, Thanks Tom), and it seems to suggest that you actually boil at a temperature between the bp of alcohol and the bp of water. Do you determine theoretical %ABV by spec gravity, then decide what temp to run the reflux head at?

Thanks again for your advice.

[LWTCS]

Pound a yeast might could power its way through that recipe...... But they are better ones than that in the tnt .

[Prairiepiss]

The thermometer in the middle of the reflex condenser. Will defiantly be off. Can't help you with temps on a cm still. I don't use a thermometer in mine. They wouldn't help you much with the thermo where it is. And they are different between stills.