2" Copper ferrules

[thelegion]

hey,

I just found this site on the internet today, Copper ferrules for sale, no more pain in the ass trying to weld copper with stainless. Now I don't know if there is a minimum order or not.

http://www.ec21.com/offer_detail/Sell_c ... 93351.html

[NcHooch]

hey,



http://www.ec21.com/offer_detail/Sell_c ... 93351.html

there ya go with the hyperlink.

$27 each? ....the last time I got stainless they were $2.50

[thelegion]

$27 each, WHAT! really? that's insane

Well so much for painless, I have used stainless ferrules on my still but would like to explore pressing some copper ones in a hydraulic press, a simple solder on deal. I used J-B weld on mine, I explored the food safe aspect before using it and it makes for a super clean fitting, it can be removed with heat if necessary (600f). I'm afraid to post picks as the purists might lynch me in the morning.

[Prairiepiss]

JB weld? Oh please do tell.

[thelegion]

JB weld? Oh please do tell.

OK,here it is

[Voodoo74]

I like the look of the SS and copper together. Looks clean too.

[rubber duck]

I don't solder mine on, I put the ferrule in the freezer and then pound it onto the pipe with a mallet. When the ferrule warms up it fits so snug it doesn't leak on type L pipe. On dwv I have to solder.

[thelegion]

I don't solder mine on, I put the ferrule in the freezer and then pound it onto the pipe with a mallet. When the ferrule warms up it fits so snug it doesn't leak on type L pipe. On dwv I have to solder.

never thought of the freezer, the pipe pictured is the thick wall stuff, I bought it for less than the dev as it was almost a solid green. I had to ream the pipe out a bit/allot to get the fit wright.

[Prairiepiss]

Ok I read just about every page on the JB weld website. They do not claim that it is food safe. They only mention it is non toxic. And that they don't recommend consuming it. With no mention of hot alcohol vapor capability. The MSDS is really for the two parts before mixing. And only states to not mix with other chemicals. And that its incompatible with acids, oxidizers, and caustics.

It is a two part synthetic resin that uses a chemical cure. That would mean it would be covered under rule #8.

The requirements for use in a still are not just for it to be food safe. Which they don't claim anyway. It needs to be high heat alcohol and alcohol vapor safe or compatible. Also hot acidic liquid compatible. (wash) And I have yet to find any evidence that covers any of these.

If it was truly food safe they would market it as such. Because they are looking out on a big market by not claiming food safe. By claiming nontoxic if you as the consumer use it for food and a problem arises. They can claim you didn't use the product property and not be held liable.

I read through a lot of claims by internet knowitalls. Like any other thing you find on the net. It's all hear say. The one thing I did find interesting was incompatibility issues with E85 fuel. Where people didn't have a problem with this product until they started adding alcohol to the fuel in higher concentrations. I didn't say it was true. I only said I found it interesting. And this could be directly related to what we do.

Call me a purest. Call me what ever you want. But my thoughts are this. Anything that comes in a tube as a liquid and when mixed or let air dry. To form a bond. That uses chemicals and synthetics. Especially when one of the chemicals is an alcohol. Is not good to use in the building of a still. When known safe materials are readily available. Not being able to use them correctly is not an excuse to use an inferior product. Neither is being lazy.

So now I ask. Do you have proof that JB Weld is safe to use in the building of a still. Where it will be exposed to hot alcohol vapors and hot acidic liquids processed for consumption by humans? Something I missed somewhere? We are always looking for new products that are proven safe.

[rad14701]

Just say NO to JB-Weld...

[heartcut]

http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40204" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Makes it look pretty bad for stilling

[thelegion]

"To use or not to use" JB Weld that is, well seems a small debate has been sparked. There is one sure way to end this, I'll mail JB. and pose the question to them. I have searched and searched for ANY reason NOT to use this stuff, I have looked at other forums and the debate is there also and the overall general consensus is that it's ok. However when in doubt "DONT", I'm not too much in doubt at the moment, but I will do some further research.

There are toxins in pretty near everything we use or consume, apple seeds (cyanogenic acids), alcohol in it's very nature is toxic to the human body. For example- when you step into that brand new car an breath all those extremely toxic gasses being released from all the plastics and rubber. The list is endless, do you smoke or do drugs, over the counter energy drinks and just plain living is and can be dangerous right down to the chlorine and the fluoride our governments and scientists allow to be put into our water.

So I would suggest to anyone, that if your in doubt "DONT" plain and simple, and yes as mentioned by others do your research cause hearsay is just that, hearsay.


One thing I would like to add, that if you drink wines from countries that use pesticide on their crops it is more than likely being transferred into the consumer. Every one reacts a bit different, I personally develop headache after one or two glasses.

"Life is just too risky, I'm leaving"

"NEW UPDATE" looks as if it has been a topic here before thread below


http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 41&t=12298

[rubber duck]

Ok bubba let me fill you in on how it works around here as far as synthetics go.

Synthetics = bad end of story, no one wants to hear any evidence to the contrary and anything you can find is not going to be good enough, Period. So don't bother, your just going to get your head taken off.

Now if you want to get your head taken off try investigating this.

[attachment=0]0221121709a small.jpg[/attachment

[lokibrew]

I'd like to get back on topic about Ferrules..The poor guy even acknowledge that he would get attacked for JB Weld.

Rubber Duck, anything special about the ferrules you are using? Long or Short?

I was thinking I would heat the pipe and then put it in a press, maybe throw the pipe in an expander first to get the right fit.


I agree that $20 bucks is a long way to go for copper ferrules, but they are pretty sweet. I shouldn't talk, I recently picked up an inverter tig welder so I could weld copper and Tig Braze sight glass ferrules on.. Now I just need more time.

[rubber duck]

Don't heat the pipe, that tends to make it go on easier but it stretches the pipe to much and makes a loose fit. The short 2" ferrules are to short to get a good fit. I think the ones I use are medium length, they might be long IDK I had a box of them fall off of a scrap trailer I was hauling. I'll measure one tomorrow and let you know.

They fit really tight but if you put them in the freezer and work fast the will pound on. Getting half the diameter of the ferrule into the pipe and reaming out the edge of the pipe will help.


Also I agree with you we should get back onto the topic of ferrules.

[maheel]

you can also copper plate SS ferules and then just solder them on no dramas...
there is a thread here and on Artisan about doing it, it's pretty easy to do and your likely to have the stuff you need in the pantry / shed

it takes a little time but works very well

also instead of using a torch soldering copper -> SS try using a old school copper head iron
or an iron that fits on a torch

i have one of these and it works very well on copper-ss and makes it easy (well i find it easy compared to using a torch)
it fits on the end of my torch and uses a small burner to heat it

[rubber duck]

That's a great tip Maheel, I'm going to try that on my next build.

[lokibrew]

That would be great.. THanks.

Sounds like I will be having some experiments with dry ice and a hydraulic press coming up.

That sounds much cleaner than my ugly welding /brazing.

[thelegion]

Ouch! run for the hills.

Stainless ferrules are easy to find in North America, but you have to source parts from Korea and china if you want copper. There has to be enough machine and fabrication talent cruising this web site to come up with a local copper parts source. When you start having to mig or tig parts together it starts to get pricey and not every welder wants a six pack in trade, $20 plus for a few minutes of their time.
So that $27 dollar copper ferrule from Korea or China starts to look pretty good.

Some of the members are great at making certain parts and the pictures speak for themselves, some of the copper coils look like they were wound by little elves working in Santa's metal shop. Over the next couple of weeks a friend and I are going to collaborate on pressing some copper ferrules out of some common copper pipe.

And to put this JB stuff to rest (I hope) I would prefer a solder on as opposed to a glue on solution. Personally, with the amount of reading on the subject I've done, I'm ok with it. If I end up pressing out some copper ferrules and the quality is there I'll let everyone know, we need parts from North America and not out sourced and I'm not just talking just copper ferrules.

Ps.hey rubber duck, is that stuff in the picture you posted good to drink or what?

[Prairiepiss]

What's wrong with making an easy flange? There are three different ways of making them. All are posted here in the forums. No you can't use one of the fancy triclamp gaskets with them. But a Samohon's everlasting PTFE gasket works great with them. And they are cheap and easy enough to make. I use the solid copper wire ring method. I've done 2", 3", and 4". No problem. My last build had 5 of them on the one piece. Three of which are for sightglasses.

There was someone a while back that casted his own copper ferrules. Man I can't remember who that was. Wasn't Spooky was it? No. I will see if I can find it. He hasn't been around for a while.

Myles made some nice ones out of brass bar stock.

And I remember someone soldering on some copper bar stock. Then machining the flange on a lathe. Those looked good.

There are a lot of fine examples out there. Of home grown ingenuity. That mite give you some good ideas. Just gotta look around for them. Some are barried in build threads. Here and there. Some have threads dedicated to them.

And if your fine with the JB that's your deal. I would rather others make a well researched decision. Then just see some one do it. And think its alright.

And I would disagree with RD's statement. I personaly would love to see some good strong evedence that would show some of the synthetics were good to use. But finding its the hard part. Trust me I have spent many hours looking myself. Not that I would use any of them. I would just like to see the information out there for others to use as they see fit.

[Prairiepiss]

Here's one of them. prdbrissy is the one that machined the flanges. They turn out really nice.
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 17&t=19556

[rubber duck]

Ps.hey rubber duck, is that stuff in the picture you posted good to drink or what?

Yes that is beverage alcohol 190 proof, and I delivered it to a micro distillery. That is the standard way neutral alcohol is stored and shipped, plastic barrels, plastic totes, or by rail car. I know because I use to deliver the stuff by the truck load to distilleries. In the US if your drinking commercial vodka, gin, or any other product made with neutral this is how it was stored. There are exceptions, (any micro distilled product using neutral made in Washington state is more then likely made in house) but for the most part if your drinking vodka it was stored in plastic.

The only forum approved synthetic out there is Teflon, and that was approved because some anonymous guy on an internet form did 30 minutes of testing on it. Meanwhile Vendom uses buna rubber in all their stills and every GNS manufacture stores their alcohol in unlined plastic barrels. So I'll stand by my above statement.

[heartcut]

There's $12USD 2" brass ferrules (lead free) for sale on the internet, along with 3 and 4". They're pipe size sweat to tri-clamp. I'm going to order a few.

[thelegion]

There's $12USD 2" brass ferrules (lead free) for sale on the internet, along with 3 and 4". They're pipe size sweat to tri-clamp. I'm going to order a few.

Could you please post the link,

thanks...

[rubber duck]

I'd like to get back on topic about Ferrules..The poor guy even acknowledge that he would get attacked for JB Weld.

Rubber Duck, anything special about the ferrules you are using? Long or Short?

I was thinking I would heat the pipe and then put it in a press, maybe throw the pipe in an expander first to get the right fit.


I agree that $20 bucks is a long way to go for copper ferrules, but they are pretty sweet. I shouldn't talk, I recently picked up an inverter tig welder so I could weld copper and Tig Braze sight glass ferrules on.. Now I just need more time.

They're med. I found a long and med these are defiantly medium. They go on a type L right out of the freezer I just did one, if it's warm you won't have much luck, the tolerances are really tight.

[HookLine]

The only forum approved synthetic out there is Teflon, and that was approved because some anonymous guy on an internet form did 30 minutes of testing on it. Meanwhile Vendom uses buna rubber in all their stills...

The anonymous guy is a real chemist in the beverage distillation industry with access to full lab gear that he uses every day, and he was only confirming what we kind of already knew about PTFE.

Has also been privately pointed out to me that an important difference between small hobby and large commercial stills is that the circumference of column (ie surface area of seal in contact with the spirit) goes up by a factor of Pi (3.14), but cross-sectional-area (ie volume of spirit vapour through the column) goes up by the square of the radius, ie much faster. So the amount of seal surface area in contact with the spirit is proportionally much lower in commercial stills than hobby stills, so the commercial guys get lower contamination rates. All of which means that seal material may actually be more important for small hobby stills than large commercial stills.

The commercial guys also only have to meet minimum legal standards for contamination. No reason we should not aim for better than that.

[Bushman]

Thanks for the info Hookline, it seems the more I read your data is confirmed in a few studies not only for safety but what happens during distillation when you magnify it in size.

[rubber duck]

The only forum approved synthetic out there is Teflon, and that was approved because some anonymous guy on an internet form did 30 minutes of testing on it. Meanwhile Vendom uses buna rubber in all their stills...

The anonymous guy is a real chemist in the beverage distillation industry with access to full lab gear that he uses every day, and he was only confirming what we kind of already knew about PTFE.

Has also been privately pointed out to me that an important difference between small hobby and large commercial stills is that the circumference of column (ie surface area of seal in contact with the spirit) goes up by a factor of Pi (3.14), but cross-sectional-area (ie volume of spirit vapour through the column) goes up by the square of the radius, ie much faster. So the amount of seal surface area in contact with the spirit is proportionally much lower in commercial stills than hobby stills, so the commercial guys get lower contamination rates. All of which means that seal material may actually be more important for small hobby stills than large commercial stills.

The commercial guys also only have to meet minimum legal standards for contamination. No reason we should not aim for better than that.

He's anonymous to me...... But assuming he does work in the field, why didn't anyone ask him to test a few more substances? Might it be that it's just easier not to and just follow the status quo? When a guys been repeating the same thing for years it would be kinda hard to admit it if he where wrong.

I'll say this, a picture is worth a thousand words and the picture is posted above. if it's ok by the fda and the ttb (they test a lot of recipes for contamination) that holds a lot more clout than a bunch of guys on the internet. The last time I checked no one is getting poisoned by commercial spirits unless you live in the Czech republic.

I'll take a good sturdy seal over flower past and the potential of a deadly vapor leak.

Just remember what Joseph Goebbels said.

[Lawrence]

I would love to get one of these ferrules.
My 54mm pipe is about an 8th" bigger than the stainless ferrule I bought from america, which means I cannot get a strong enough joint with solder.
It looks like these are designed for the pipe to slide into the ferrule which would mean it would solder well and be strong enough to support itself!
Shame it would cost a fortune in shipping on top of the fortune to buy!
I don't have many tools left now, so I am looking for an easy method, any ideas?

Oh I thought I might ask the guy in my local hbs who has told me he knows a lot about distilling...
He suggested I use superglue!

[myles]

I have to admit that I liked the brass ring versions I built. I liked the ones that I built incorporating a slip coupling even more, self centering, self stabilising blah blah.

The only problem was the clamp ripped the ring off the tube. I suspect that for these easy flanges you really do need to braze them on, not just soft solder them. Time to get out the MAP and 55% silver solder again. I was thinking about building a bolted flange but that would be the same - brazing required.

That is the true benefit of the copper socketed flanges. They provide a proper length, capillary solder joint, that should be virtually impossible to pull off the tube.