Quick fermentation on hard cider

[augiecrazy8]

I love this time of year because of a local apple orchard that I've been visiting since I was a kid. This year I decided to try my hand at making hard cider. I went through the steps I am familiar with and got some advice from my friends at the local brew shop (havent been back & won't likely make it for a while, hence the post to my other group of smart friends). So finally my question. The fermentation didn't seem to last very long. It bubbled hard for about 24 hours with an OG of 1.063 just four days ago. Tonight it was at 1.003. Does that seem oddly quick? I used red star champagne yeast. I added pectic enzyme to help it clear, and I plan on letting it sit for at least another week. Seemed to taste like a sour champagne, touch dry with a little bit of carbonation. I'll likely back sweeten it with some honey before bottling. I guess the vigorous fermentation didn't last very long, there are basically no bubbles in the airlock anymore, the TG seems about right and the taste isn't very apple like, ha. First timer just looking for any guidance I suppose.

Thanks

[rad14701]

It's done...

[augiecrazy8]

Simple enough, I'm going to let it clear a bit more & then rack it and bottle in a few weeks. Thanks for helping a newbie rad

[MontanaMule]

I usually do this a few times a year from bottled cider, I tend to use a different yeast than champagne because of the esters that type can give off. I keep mine in the fermentor for 2~3 months which i find helps mellow it a bit, than I keg it and serve carbonated. I call it "Black Out Cider!" haha

[Prairiepiss]

If you back sweeten it you will either need to stop fermentation before you do. Or let it ferment it out before you bottle it. If you sweeten it then bottle it. You have a chance it will ferment out the new sugar in the bottle and explode. Unless your idea is to bottle condition it to carbonate it naturally. In that case the sugar addition needs to be calculated proper for bottling.

Did that make since?

[Durace11]

+1 Mr. Piss

IMO use a non-fermentable sweetener, I use Splenda packets. Start with 1 per gallon and add 1 per gallon until you get it sweet enough for your taste. Maybe a little less if you are going to carbonate. Yeast can't eat the Splenda but it adds sweetness. Our local orchards are getting ready to pick soon so I will be going for a big haul. Cyser, apple cider, cherry cider, raspberry cider...all that jazz!

[augiecrazy8]

Just an update, I've cut my first gallon into a couple of mason jars after it was racked twice and left to clear. I'm experimenting with artificial sweetner and cinnamon sticks in different quantities. I'm thinking of using a pager yeast next time as the champagne yeast is drying it out too much and pulling most of the apple flavor out. I'm getting a few gallons of fresh apple cider from an orchard this weekend, so I'm going to do some more experimenting. The flavors I have right now just aren't very good. That's the fun in it all right? Thanks for the suggestions. Ill keep updating as I progress.

[towercrane]

I used red star champagne yeast

.

After talking about a similar problem with my friend at my local home brew shop, I was turned onto this yeast. It yields similar ABV as the Red Star Champaign yeast, but it allows the cider to retain a lot of the apple flavor.

Thought it might help.

[augiecrazy8]

Thanks Tower. I was just at the brew shop tonight and I eyed that nottingham yeast, but I hadn't read your post yet so I missed the chance. I'm thinking this weekend I'm going to grab another gallon of fresh cider from a farmers market, so I'll have to also grab that yeast and try some more flavors. I've found that keeping very good notes helps. I've used the app Evernote, highly recommend. Anyway I racked a few more mason jars last night and added different amounts of truvia and cinnamon. Grabbed artificial apple flavoring from the brew shop to try as well. The most recent gallon that is fermenting now is going to go for 5 days only to maintain the original sweetness, then cold crashed to stop fermentation, and lastly some artificial apple flavoring. I'll keep this updated on the profiles of these experiments.

[Vicknair57]

If you want it to be sweet, don't bottle it. And if you do, drink it quick because it will become far too dry if let sit in the bottles. I make cider once or twice a year with apple juice and apple juice concentrate then add back more concentrate for sweetness once it is in the corny keg. Clarify if necessary, A lot of times it will clear up on its own once you cold crash your secondary vessel. But if it becomes necessary use whrilfloc, it's just sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) and irish moss. My last batch got some vinegar cultures going in it, I left it in primary for too long. right now it is cold crashing in a tweeked fermentation fridge I am planning on using for lagering (stays around 55 F) been about a week and it is slowly clearing up. Mine tastes very apple like even dry. Try using a Wyeast or White Labs champagne yeasts, they aren't as bland and drying as the dry packet type yeasts, I have found.

[GingerTop]

Safale SO-4 is also pretty good. Got a batch of raw, fresh pressed cider fermenting now. Had a nasty sulfur smell after 3 days, but added a tablespoon of nutrient and it cured it overnight. Now has a very strong apple aroma. Fermenting it down to 1.01 and halting fermentation there. Should turn out great!

[zeeshan]

You have a chance it will ferment out the new sugar in the bottle and explode. Unless your idea is to bottle condition it to carbonate it naturally.

[doubleagent]

You have a chance it will ferment out the new sugar in the bottle and explode. Unless your idea is to bottle condition it to carbonate it naturally.

Would you like a cracker, Polly. Somebody close the window there are parrots getting in here.

[doubleagent]

If you back sweeten it you will either need to stop fermentation before you do. Or let it ferment it out before you bottle it. If you sweeten it then bottle it. You have a chance it will ferment out the new sugar in the bottle and explode. Unless your idea is to bottle condition it to carbonate it naturally. In that case the sugar addition needs to be calculated proper for bottling.

Did that make since?

You said it first

[hikfromstik]

Just made the red star champagne yeast mistake. Dry aint the word. But still drinkable. Fermented dry in 3 days.

[Beerbrewer]

You could just add apple juice to sweeten your end product, i.e. when you want to drink it, something I do know and then if I'm not in the mood for a dry cider.

[bcboyz86]

So after leaving it in some ice water to clear it, and filtering it, just toss it in a bottle and leave it? Where would I get the calculations to figure out how much sugar to add to carbonate it? I'm thinking of using wine bottles instead of beer bottles, so if it does get too carbonated it will pop the cork instead of exploding. But I guess my question would be, I want a good cider that still has the Apple flavor but a little carbonated still. So how do I judge the amount of sugar that will carbonate and still leave it sweet? Won't the yeast that carbonated the cider use the sugar i left in there for sweetener as fuel too? Or should I use something like splenda or trivia like someone said because the yeast can't motabalize it? Another thought is to freeze it...if yeast dies when its frozen and you don't care about killing the yeast, couldn't ya toss it in a plastic jug after its dry, freeze it to kill off the yeast, then add sugar to sweeten? That is if you didn't want carbonation in it. I've thought about doing this for a cider/apple pie recipe instead of using hard A, just drink it like a beer.... And have people been only doing this a gallon at a time? I was ganna go for a 5gallon wash, but was a little curious about doing such a large batch. Would 5 one gallon batches be better to do than a big one? And how much yeast would I use in each one? Just sprinkle a little in every jug, or hydrate all the yeast in one container and pour it into the 5 jugs separately?

[bcboyz86]

So ive been having a lot of angry orchard lately and was wanting to make some of my own, with some twists. I know this isnt a cider website, but has anyone had sucess amking asweet carbonated cider? Im thinking of making it "dry" and add the priming sugar like you would in beer, then before i cap it add the sweetener to taste. So far this is the only way i can figure it out to get sweet and carbonated.... any thougts?

[Dnderhead]

"then before i cap it add the sweetener to taste. So far this is the only way i can figure it out to get sweet and carbonated.."
let us know how the "bombs " work out for you.

you either need a non fermentable sweetener or keg carbonate.

[bcboyz86]

I was ganna use a stivia sweetener, or some other un-fermentable sugar. That, or force carbonate it. After the yeast is dead from freezing the cider. This would kill the yeast and I could cut it with just plain Apple juice. I've also herd Campden tablets will kill the yeast is ya add enough, but not sure how safe that is for drinking :/

[Beerbrewer]

You could use sod. met to stop the yeast once it's reached the right sweetness and then prime and bottle. A lot of sweet wine is done this way.

[Dnderhead]

"You could use sod. met to stop the yeast once it's reached the right sweetness and then prime and bottle. A lot of sweet wine is done this way."

not sure what SOD is but you cant use a fermentable sugar to sweeten with
and then prime and bottle.
if you "prime and bottle" to carbonate it must have yeast. if it has yeast it can keep fermenting in the bottle ,not unless its a controlled amount of fermenting,,,
even if you "kill" off the yeast,because to prime and bottle carbonate there must have yeast,if you add yeast and sugar then the yeast will consume the sugar.
so you must either sweeten with non fermentable sugar like maltodextrin/
lactose etc.
or keg carbonate.

[Beerbrewer]

Sorry, I meant sodium metabisulphate, should retard enough of the yeast to slow it down and then bottle.

[Dnderhead]

most does not "kill" yeast it works as a "birth control" so the yeast die on there own but does not reproduce so after time it stops fermenting.but there is no way to bottle condition sweet wine/beer.other than using non fermenting sugar to sweeten with.
if it still has sugar it will ferment.how much it ferments depend on how much sugar will ferment.
so to sweeten and bottle carbonate you need to let it ferment dry,sweeten with non fermentable sugar,add priming sugar and bottle.you should put this in plastic bottles,,beer bottles,,or champagne bottles.do not use regular wine bottles.

[Beerbrewer]

most does not "kill" yeast it works as a "birth control" so the yeast die on there own but does not reproduce so after time it stops fermenting.but there is no way to bottle condition sweet wine/beer.other than using non fermenting sugar to sweeten with.
if it still has sugar it will ferment.how much it ferments depend on how much sugar will ferment.
so to sweeten and bottle carbonate you need to let it ferment dry,sweeten with non fermentable sugar,add priming sugar and bottle.you should put this in plastic bottles,,beer bottles,,or champagne bottles.do not use regular wine bottles.

Yeah, meant to say slow down.

[bcboyz86]

Sounds good. Probably what I will do. I was thinking of using gallon jugs since I don't have bottles or a capper. Other possibility would be screw top caps. I know people discourage them, but they seem to be a good option for me right now without a bottle capper...but if not that, then the screw caps for the gallon jugs should work too... The cider is going good right now, just ganna wait for it to be dry, sweeten it with some stevia or maltodextrin and toss in a tiny bit of sugar in to "prime" it. Is there a calculation for how much sugar makes how much carbonation? Rough guesstimate... Er else I'm just ganna start tossing in sugar till its fizzy enough...

[Dnderhead]

Im thanking its 3/4 cup//177g per 5 gallon.
do not use lite wight glass bottles.or those gallon jugs.they wont take the psi..

[bcboyz86]

Yea, I've been busy and haven't checked the site for a while. The beer guy at the local beer place told.me 3/4 cup of corn sugar per 5 gallons and not to use gallon jugs cuz they will explode like 10lbs Apple booze flavored grenades! So to avoid injury from alcohol other than consumption I will stick to bottles. Just gadda start drinking my bombers of Winter IPA I've got stashed up so I have bottles to use... :/

[Dnderhead]

I had a wine fermenting in a corny keg,,i closed the top..after a day or so it started
blowing off he safety valve, witch is at 150psi..so some serious pressure can be generated.

and thats another way to carbonate,,place drink in a container like a crony keg..close and let it build up co2 then place somewhere real cold ,all most freezing .then bottle in cold bottles.all has to be as kept cold as possible.

[bcboyz86]

Wow, that's insane amount of preassure. I don't currently have a corn keg, but probably will be in the market for one soon. But not sure if I wanna do co2 or carbonate with corn sugar. But deffinatly ganna not carbonate in a gallon jug!