Thinking of moving...any free states left?

[Usge]

The "America" I grew up in doesn't exist anymore. That's not a recent change of events. It's been happening little by little over time. In the past, people flocked to cities because that's where good jobs were. Manufacturing jobs that paid good money that a working man could raise a family on. That's what all those old, crumbling, decaying vacant large buildings are....old factories, warehouses, etc. All that is mostly gone (has been for a while). And as communities outside the city grew...people left the cities for the suburbs. Your office doesn't have to be "downtown". And as technology has come further...people can work from home, communicate, conference, etc..without having to be in a physical downtown or building location. All this has left the cities with a decreasing revenue/tax base.

Large urban cities have their own unique issues. People are stacked one on top of the other, they have to sell their garbage to other states or they'd be buried in it. They have crime, etc., issues. So, their views on things like guns, etc..and other social issues are often based on their own unique living experiences. (which is reasonable and fine). I understand why they have to be very concerned about pollution and living conditions, and why they don't want people bottled up in thin walled apts...having shootouts with each other (although it happens anyway). But, it's an entirely different situation when you live more spread out, in more open space, etc. As more and more of those people leave the cities for greener pastures (HUGE migration from NYC and Boston to Va, and NC, etc..which is exactly "why" those states have been changing demographically) they bring with them their values, morals and ideals based on city living. Beyond that...they seem to often feel obligated to impose those views on others.

On the other hand...once you get out of that environment...and are in say a small suburb or city that is "growing"...instead of shrinking....you have opportunities when building from scratch and not burdened with legacy equipment and labor force..to start with more modern designs, etc., that are more efficient and work better for it's citizens modern lives. This is why a lot of areas outside of NY, Boston, Chicago, Detroit, etc... are growing and attracting more and more refugees from increasingly unsustainable living in our oldest cities who grew up on manufacturing that is never going to come back. Those old cities were built from ground up...to support the ports, goods, manufacturing and factories that technology, communication and outsourcing that has displaced to other areas. They've mostly tried to convert all that to office and residential space. Most of the manf jobs...that paid good money, are now related "service" jobs...that don't pay nearly as well. And technology has put the final nail in that as well...there are many jobs that no longer exist because of computers, automation, etc.

So, things are changing. When I was young kid, my father was the only one who worked. The nice house they bought was equivalent to about 1 year of salary. That was the situation for "most" people. How many people does that even exist for anymore? The avg cost of a home nationally is 190k. Wages have not kept pace with inflation in very key areas. And as more and more people (demand) cannot afford a home, this drives the price up for "rental" options as well.

I say this to say...our great cities...once the driving heartbeat and lifeblood of our nation....are dieing. And those great centers are being replaced...by numerous smaller industries, etc...which obviously do not offer the same job/pay opportunities for workers/middle class/ that once existed. The days of single worker, owning a home, sending kids to college, and building a retirement to see you through golden years...are increasingly rare. The very thing...that made us great..that attracted so many people here...for opportunity, etc....is disappearing. This is just basic human nature. You'll work harder, do more..when there is something in it for you at the end. Once that reward is removed, or potential for gain...it's only human nature that people will just do whatever it is they have to (the minimum) and not be interested in doing more.

Without that, we are slowly removing any incentive to create or excel at anything here. Kids grow up today...learning not to compete nor to acknowledge individual achievement..but to only progress as a group. That there are no winners or losers, everybody gets a trophy just for participating. This is what the big city kids are learning and bringing to your community. They want to make the world into their own backyard. I've met a few of these kids. They believed that simply by participating...results should follow. (ie., a trophy). They were "shocked" to find that it didn't work like that. And that they actually had to compete with people and produce results to gain anything. Something a good old fashioned ass whopping in a neighborhood game could easily have taught them had they been allowed to.

Anyway, I say all this to say...it does't really matter where you move to here. The US is loosing it's might and it's independence, and it will take it's place and fall in line behind other countries in the not to distant future as part of a managed "global economy". Gone will be the day of frivolous excess....watching us hulu-hoop, surf, drag cars, shoot guns, and whoop our way into oblivion. Things that people came here in DROVES for the opportunity to be able to do. It was part of what made us great. Our dreams. Our innovation. Or excesses. The freedom to make personal choices about your life, and your family, and your property.

Our country has always been through ups/downs...but we will never be the nation we once were once we are fully integrated into the "world economy" and gov. Whether that's bad or good ...I leave that to you. But, whether you remember it or not is another thing. Kids today only know what they see and experience growing up. Each generation will loose a piece of that, until nobody can even remember what it used to be. Well just have to read about it in books.

edited for clarity

[BareKnuckles]

Very well put Usge... Slowly turning the masses into sheeple... The rest of us will try to get by on the fringe....

[blind drunk]

I new this guy back in the clubbing days who wore a watch the was stuck at the exact time his wife left him many years before. He was an alcoholic druggie and was getting worse by the time we met. He couldn't move past the hurt and pain at being left behind. What happened to this guy can also happen to nations that cling to the past; they cling at their own peril. Just my opinion.

[rad14701]

I am considering moving to west VA as NH is becoming a little too blue for my taste. From what I have seen property and land (must have acres to prep) is cheap, and to top that off you can get free gas on some properties. My questions are how is life there? I am a fiscally conservative libertarian and want to find a place that the laws don't control your whole life, Seatbelt, helmet, gun, zoning etc I am a paramedic so work doesnt seem like it would be an issue. Its on my top spots although I am looking at LA, TX, Idaho and Montana too.

Kinda sounds like you want to live where you have unlimited job security to me... Some of the dumbest shit I've read recently had to do with seceding from the union simply because of who got reelected as president... This comes in a close second... If you don't want laws just head for any of a number of third world countries because it sounds like you've lost your loyalty to your state and country already... If not, suck it up, Buttercup...

[paramedic68whiskey]

I am considering moving to west VA as NH is becoming a little too blue for my taste. From what I have seen property and land (must have acres to prep) is cheap, and to top that off you can get free gas on some properties. My questions are how is life there? I am a fiscally conservative libertarian and want to find a place that the laws don't control your whole life, Seatbelt, helmet, gun, zoning etc I am a paramedic so work doesnt seem like it would be an issue. Its on my top spots although I am looking at LA, TX, Idaho and Montana too.

Kinda sounds like you want to live where you have unlimited job security to me... Some of the dumbest shit I've read recently had to do with seceding from the union simply because of who got reelected as president... This comes in a close second... If you don't want laws just head for any of a number of third world countries because it sounds like you've lost your loyalty to your state and country already... If not, suck it up, Buttercup...

Losing loyalty to my country???? Thats a low blow, considering I have served 14 years in the military. Wanting to live my own life and not live in a nanny state has nothing to do with patriotism or disloyalty. Thats cool if your fine with that, I see you live in NY, one of the biggest nanny states in the country, but I am not. I don't have to go live in a third world country...we are well on our way there now in the US. I am not an advocate for secession, however I certainly believe that there will be a time when people start revolting. Americans will only take so much, and like I said this is not a D or and R thing, they are all crooked. They want to centralize power and take away the rights of people not hurting anyone else. Americans are letting them too, and this has been seen time and time again with great empires...it always leads to failure. EVERYONE who serves in the military or the government swears an oath to uphold and defend the constituition.(most politicians wipe their ass with it) Most of us in the military believe in that oath to the point of giving up our lives, so loyalty to my country and its founding priciples are not up for debate. Now loyalty to my state...not so much. NH is still one of the freeist states in the country. We actually don't have seatbelt laws, or helmet laws. We have open carry and our zoning laws are pretty lax in most areas. Thats all starting to change as more and more pepople move here from states like MA, NY, NJ. And why do they move here? To get away from the big nanny state government they lived in before, and they brought it here. As for taxes we have the 2nd highest property taxes in the nation, and they will be going up. NH is an awesome state that has been taken over by transplants, but to be honest I believe that is happening everywhere. I believe there has to be law, but it has been taken too far. All you have to do is look around you...and if you cant see our bill of rights being dismantled and our Republic falling then you are a sheep. As for me...if actually believing in the constituition and the vision our forefathers had. If that makes me disloyal then so be it and you will be calling a majority of our Armed Forces the same. And remember almost 50 percent of this country believes almost the exact same things I do. As for Obama getting reelected, yes I was upset, but it really doesn't make a difference who got elected. Nothing is going to change unless it happens from the bottom up, even Ron Paul who I liked would have been powerless. This has been happening since FDR, and I really don't have faith in most of my fellow citizens that they will be willing to make the sacrafices needed to get this country back to where it once was. So we shall see, as for me I am going to buy enough land somewhere that no one will bother my family and I. Hopefully soon.