Bourbon Sugar Head

[Jimbo]

Im pulling this discussion out of NCHooch's thread since thats an AG Bourbon thread. After making another batch of Bourbon I tried something new with the 25 lbs of spent grains.... which leads me here....

The bourbon I made was 17 lbs cracked corn, 5 lbs red wheat malt and 3 lbs 6 row fermented with US-05 ale yeast. Its a wheated bourbon style, like Makers Mark, Van Winkle and some others that use wheat instead of rye. I love the flavor of red wheat malt in a whiskey, I also make a single malt with it, 100% Red wheat malt, but thats another topic and another recipe I posted elsewhere here on HD.

So instead of dumping that pile of squeezed out spent grain in the compost like I usually do I decided to try my first sugar head. Ever, after 17 years of stillin. haha. I know I do shit backasswards. I cooked up 16 lbs of sugar with 2 gallons backset and 10 gallons water. Cooled and poured over the grain bed. With all the yeast embedded in the grain, it started up in no time. And fermented fast. It went from 1.061 to 1.000 in 4 days. Tonight I squeezed out 11 gallons from the grain. The wash is freakin delicious. Cidery from all the sugar, but still very corn flavored and sweet. A question for you folk who do sugarheads. Is that normal, sweet tasting, even at 1.000? Im used to AG washes being very sour. This stuff is tasty and drinkable as is, I strained out 3/4 pint and enjoyed every drop of it.

Tomorrow I'll do a double run on it and post up results. Then let you know how it goes after aging on charred JD staves. I have a good feeling I just doubled my drinkin likker from these Bourbon AG batches.

[baron4406]

All I know is if your drinking some of your wash, your as hardcore as you can get.

[noobshine]

If i fermented out all the way, I dont recall mine ever tasting sweet. just like a high gravity beer minus hops.

I'm gonna edit this. I've never done a sugar head on top of spent AG. and I've never fermented a sugar head on the grain. so my experiences with this probably wo'nt apply to your latest batch

question for you. do you always get sg 1.00 or under when you ferment on the grain? I dont. i rarely get below 1.01. I'm pretty sure its fermented out. so far i've just been chocking it up to nonfermentables, and other solids left over. does that sound right?

[rad14701]

It would not be unusual to detect a sweetness even though the wash has fermented to dry with all of that second generation grain... You might find that a single run will provide some nice spirits so maybe hold some back and then do a second run on the rest for comparison... Keep us posted...

[Black Eye]

I don't know about the sweet... when I do the UJSSM style runs it usually finishes pretty dry, but since I've never really had the cappacity to do a large scale AG I have no comparison. Then again I like to rack it to a carboy and clear it for a few days.... up to a week. that tends to dry it out more.

Glad to see the sugar still made something good.... I don't feel like I'm cheating as bad now.

All I know is if your drinking some of your wash, your as hardcore as you can get.

I wasn't aware of this? I was always under the assumption that if the wash tasted bad it wasn't worth distillin'. I always enjoy a glass before I fill up the boiler. Actually when running multiple fermenting buckets, I've been known to tie on a little buzz from sampling.

[Rivver]

Hey Jim, I'm working on a slightly different, but similar wash right now, actually it's finished but I have not run it yet. I converted 5 lbs of cracked corn, then added 4 lbs of dark brown sugar, and pitched with Prestige WD. It worked off pretty fast, I think 5 days. I'm hoping to run it tonight as I finally have some time to.

On the past sugar heads I've run, (UJ and DWWG) all of my ferments have a very sweet smell, but the taste is very sour to them.

[Jimbo]

Baron, I always taste the wash, to be sure all is well, but its usually just a sip cause its pretty sour stuff. This sip I said wow, and strained a glass full. I had the same reaction to Rum wash now that I think about it. Gotta be the sugar base I guess. I even toyed with the idea of keggin up and carbonating some of that rum wash, lol, it was tasty stuff.

Noob, yes my whiskey washes go dry, 1.000 or 0.998 typically. I guess from mashing at 145. Some of the beers I make on purpose to finish at 1.01 to have some sweetness, those I mash at 155. Its that whole beta amylase vs alpha amylase dance thing. http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... e#p7064017

Rad, ok will do, Ill pull a pint of hearts out. And compare to hearts off the spirit run watered down to the same proof. Shit if 1 run works, this extra gallon of free likker off these bourbon runs is even easier still. I might try some carbon filtering on some too, been trying to replicate Jack for my Jack and Cokes I love so much. Bourbon and coke just aint the same, there's something about that flinty empty Jack character (lack of charcter) thats makes a damn fine Jack and Coke! And it pissed me off to pay 22 bucks a fifth for empty flavored whiskey nowadays! LOL

Black eye, if its good and you like it, it aint cheating. hmmm, I wonder if my wife will buy that one...

Ok time to get some stillin on....

Cheers.

[Halfbaked]

Mainly posting to be informed of replies. Dang it man I thought you were going to drink up the experiment. Glad shes cookn. I bet you gonna drink up the experiment any way. I taste all my experiments also. I think it helps my learning process.

[Black Eye]

Jack & Coke is good, but If you're makin a Bourbon Drink I like Jim & Ginger. It breaks my heart to mix with Makers or anything too good, but Jim Beam aint bad to mix.

[Jimbo]

Hey Black Eye, sounds like youre like me about a particular favorite drink. haha I have gallons of great bourbon and whikeys, vanilla sweet oaked delicious, but I still drop coin on Jack for when I want a good Jack and Coke. Nothin like it.

OK, 3 lbs of sliced marinated top round in the smoker for jerky. NOW the still gets fired I took the day off to till the garden and work in the yard, and its raining. Awww darn aint that a damn shame

[Tater]

Ive always sugared back my grain mashes and usually blend in some it with the all grain .Easy way to gain proof on single runs.And I like the taste.

[noobshine]

@ Tater,I've read on here that it takes yeast 7 generations to learn how to eat a different sugar. does this have any bearing on fermenting a malted mash with added table sugar?

hey jimdo did you end up adding any nutrient to your spent grain wash or just poured sugar water on top of it?

[Tater]

@ Tater,I've read on here that it takes yeast 7 generations to learn how to eat a different sugar. does this have any bearing on fermenting a malted mash with added table sugar?

hey jimdo did you end up adding any nutrient to your spent grain wash or just poured sugar water on top of it?

None Ive ever noticed always fermented hard and fast on ones Ive done using sparged mash and on ones using trub from grain mash when doing on grain stilling.

[Jimbo]

Agree with Tater. No problems here either, in fact It went faster than the original bourbon mash did. No nutes, I never use them. Just the sugar in backset and water, and also the sludge from the bottom of both 5 gallon pails from the bourbon (after squeezing and settling the wash).

Rad, I stole a couple quarts of hearts out of the stripper run. Wow, it is really tasty, the sweet came through, and the corn. Im calling it Bourbon Gumballhead, due to the sweetness.

I tossed a JD oak stick in each quart and put them up to age. Look how the color from the oak stick is already dropping, crazy, its only been about an hour. Those sticks I cut on the table saw from Jack Daniels oak barrel staves into 1" x 1" x 5", then char them all 6 sides. Work great. 1 per quart. My newest aging technique.

This run is on quart 8 and still at 207F at the head. Meaning there's a good bit more to go yet. I usually stop at 210 vapor temp, at that point its coming off at 18-20%

This was fun and rewarding experiment. Except Im a little pissed at myself for dumping more pounds than I can remember of grain in the compost without doing this before. Damn it Jim!

[noobshine]

thanks for the response guys, great thread

[Jimbo]

Life is good, Im sipping delicious 2 hour old Gumballhead, eating warm beef jerky right out of the smoker, its Friday and Im watching a twisted stream from this spirit run treat me with several more quarts of sweet nectar of life.

Shit Im getting poetic, you know what that means..... better put this quart down until this run is over else Rad 'l come after me for gettin likkered up while the boilers goin...

haha, seriously tho, life is pretty freakin good sometimes

[danmiz]

Beef jerky and hooch. Life is good....

[noobshine]

I tell ya what. this hobby is more addictive than the product. You got me wanting to go cook up a mash right now and I already got 1 goin' + don't have the damn time this wknd

[Jimbo]

haha, yes it is addicting.

OK, science project done. The bourbon sugarhead wash plus 2 quarts of bourbon feints gave me a great yield of some really nice tasting stuff! Im sold.

I pulled 2 quarts of hearts out of the Stripper run (54% and 51%), and 3 more quarts out of the spirit run that I watered down to 4 quarts at 56%. I oaked 2 and left 2 white. Also have a pint of fores at 78% and 2 quarts feints that didnt make the cut.

A stripper and spirit run burns up a day right quick. Time to go sit my ass on the porch and burn down a stoggie with a couple fingers of something nice.

[Halfbaked]

So you have 2 quarts that have only been run 1 (Hearts) time and 4 quarts that had 2 distalations. Am I reading this correctly? If so how do they differ in taste? After oaking is done do you think you will mix them or leave them as they are? How much do you have in each quart? I bet you don't want to know that (being the grain is free after the single malt run). Will you water them to 80 proof or keep them in the 100-110 proof? Will there be an addendum to the jims houch spot on the single malt. Have you got bottles and labels picked out or keep the mason jars and post it notes and call it the working mans jar? I bet you do this every time now. Good job!

[Jimbo]

So you have 2 quarts that have only been run 1 (Hearts) time and 4 quarts that had 2 distalations. Am I reading this correctly? If so how do they differ in taste? After oaking is done do you think you will mix them or leave them as they are? How much do you have in each quart? I bet you don't want to know that (being the grain is free after the single malt run). Will you water them to 80 proof or keep them in the 100-110 proof? Will there be an addendum to the jims houch spot on the single malt. Have you got bottles and labels picked out or keep the mason jars and post it notes and call it the working mans jar? I bet you do this every time now. Good job!

Yes 2 quarts hearts from Run 1. Ill water them down to 45% after a drink enough off the top to make space. The 4 quarts from the spirit run are already blended. It was 3 from the hearts, I mixed them and added a quart of water, mixed and split into 4. They too will be drank 1 at a time, and watered down to 45-50 when there's space. The First run hearts are sweeter, the spirit run hearts are cleaner. I dont know if Ill put this on the blog, its just a sugar stretch of some spent grains. There isint really a recipe. So yes, working mans likker, no fancy label. Ill probably be experimenting with all these in one way or another, nuclear, carbon, guitar amp etc. haha Im surprised by the yield, its higher than the yield from the original 25 lbs of bourbon AG.

[seabass]

I think I'll try this after I finish this series of bourbon washes. Add a sugar wash to the spent grain and trub and run along with the feints from the bourbon spirit run. That's an excellent way to extend the run and make use of the feints.

[Jimbo]

I think I'll try this after I finish this series of bourbon washes. Add a sugar wash to the spent grain and trub and run along with the feints from the bourbon spirit run. That's an excellent way to extend the run and make use of the feints.

Its got me thinking about all the beer grains too, after I sparge them out, dumping them in a fermenter with some sugar water and bourbon backset. They have more going on too, with all the specialty flavor malts in there too, wonder if each different kind of beer recipe would make a different tasting sugarhead?

[Halfbaked]

With free grains it cost more than a $1 a quart to find out. I got a feeling we all will find out the answer when you make beer again.

[rgarry]

I think I'm going to give this a try. Love nchooch bourbon but I get 1/2 gal from a 12 gal run. It taste great. Was thinking of using 10 lbs of sugar which should yield 5.9% alcohol + 4% from the corn. Do those ratios sound right to you guys. Don't want to push it to hard. 7 lb will produce 4.1% in 12 gal

[Jimbo]

I think I'm going to give this a try. Love nchooch bourbon but I get 1/2 gal from a 12 gal run. It taste great. Was thinking of using 10 lbs of sugar which should yield 5.9% alcohol + 4% from the corn. Do those ratios sound right to you guys. Don't want to push it to hard. 7 lb will produce 4.1% in 12 gal

I did 16 lbs to 12 gallons to pour over 25 lbs squeezed out grain. It gave me 1.061, or about 7.8% alc wash, gave me 6 quarts after cuts. Turned out fine. The 25 lbs original bourbon run gave me 4 quarts at 56% or thereabouts after cuts

[rgarry]

Guess I confused the thread, wasn't really going to do a sugar head but corn mash and then add sugar. NCHooch has a thread about this but he added some oats.

[Jimbo]

Did a nuke experiment on this. Details here http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p7080946

[noobshine]

hey jim would you do this on top of a grain bed that you suspected of a minor lacto infection?

[Jimbo]

hey jim would you do this on top of a grain bed that you suspected of a minor lacto infection?

never. dont waste your time. Im a beer brewer, so its engrained in my head to by hyper sterile. If anything is ever suspect its always, Ctrl-alt-delete. Always.