email from Brewhaus

[milehidistilling]

Mile High. Did you get a letter?

Yes I did and always kept records because I knew this eventually happen.

It seems to me thy want to hassle the company’s to make sure we are staying within the laws.

Turbo Stumpers and Bootlegger stills will have problems hopefully close down



I sent a direct email to Mike, and he is usually very responsive about asking questions are topics directed at MH, so I expect him to answer shortly

It would be very nice to know just how many of the larger companies have gotten this. If just one, it may not be that bad. Possibly someone busted, and chirped about where he bought his setup. If they are all getting these records requests, then we should all be wary.

H.

[milehidistilling]

Mike,
The TTB agent said thay are asking all the company’s for lists and want quarterly reports.
Again I think thy are making sure the company’s are staying within the laws.

Did they ask you for your sales records?

[goose eye]

state laws is diferent than fed laws so think id be lookin at state law to.
how the law works is they try to make examples.

as far as outfit makers - they in the business to make money. they aint in the security business an dam sure aint the law.
yall in charge of yalls on security.

would say that getin out in front of this info was the correct business decision. see how many others do.


so im tole

[milehidistilling]

Was notified comcerning my order that the FEDS wanted a list of all customers for the last 3 years, has the witch hunt begun??

It seems to me thy want to hassle the company’s to make sure we are staying within the laws.

[Jimbo]

how the law works is they try to make examples.

so im tole

Thats the part that scares me the most. Some over zealous yahoo gets a tip and wants to impress his boss, and tag your picture in the daily paper. Like a Goddamned trophy 12 point hangin on the wall.

[goose eye]

Sound like Mike implyin the feds don't care but
you think they gonna shair that info if a state
ask for it.
In some state it is illegal to have a operational
outfit all together. You can legally have all the
parts but one. When you nock your rig down
seperate it. Overkill. Maybe
Some state have alphabet agency that don't do
nothing but look for likker charges.

Your security is your responsibility an no one else

So im tole

[WERAT]

I use my still for distilling water. I need the distilled water to put in my CPAP machine. Isn't that what everyone is doing here?

[Truckinbutch]

Got rid of the available materials on hand and think I'll just lurk and spin some stories on off topic for a while . I think this was an early warning . We could be made headline news for misdirection from much larger political issues at hand right now .

[blind drunk]

what's a still

[One Sock]

I think we should avoid a total freak out over this, people. It's obviously an intimidation tactic to tamp down the huge surge of interest in this hobby because of "The Show"! The Feds aren't aren't goin to swoop in to nail you for the couple quarts of shine in yer basement or garage! They might look at people who've ordered several high capacity stills, because that would imply an intention to produce enuf shine to sell. For the rest of us I can imagine at most an email or letter at some point reminding us of the penalties of distilling alcohol without a license.

[jarheadshiner]

When you nock your rig down
seperate it. Overkill. Maybe
Some state have alphabet agency that don't do
nothing but look for likker charges.

Your security is your responsibility an no one else

Best advice anyone could ever give. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

[googe]

The tax payers money, time and resources would outway the money they lose from alcohol taxes unless you have a 8' + still.and are.producing 100L a week, then they might raise an eye brow and think hmmm what's this guy up to. 17000 members just here times let's say a ball park figure of $2000 to investigate each user, that's $34000000.

[F6Hawk]

The tax payers money, time and resources would outway the money they lose from alcohol taxes unless you have a 8' + still.and are.producing 100L a week,

Well, THAT'S good news!! I am only coming in at 97-98L a week. But as I drink most of the evidence as fast as I can make it, I should be ok, right?

[F6Hawk]

And I betcha the agent who started this investigation is a member, or at least a lurker, on this forum, and is laughing his ass off right about now...

[drovkin]

The tax payers money, time and resources would outway the money they lose from alcohol taxes unless you have a 8' + still.and are.producing 100L a week, then they might raise an eye brow and think hmmm what's this guy up to. 17000 members just here times let's say a ball park figure of $2000 to investigate each user, that's $34000000.

Unfortunately that would probably be spent at the drop of a hat

[WERAT]

I'm sure the Feds monitor this site as well as all the other sites that pertain to any kind of illegal activity.

[heartcut]

I believe the great majority of govenment employees, including law enforcement, don't care about what's right, wrong or what makes sense, at least in any practical way. They do what needs to be done to keep their jobs or advance into better ones. If you or I are in the way, it doesn't matter.

[Husker]

I think we should avoid a total freak out over this, people. It's obviously an intimidation tactic to tamp down the huge surge of interest in this hobby because of "The Show"! The Feds aren't aren't goin to swoop in to nail you for the couple quarts of shine in yer basement or garage! They might look at people who've ordered several high capacity stills, because that would imply an intention to produce enuf shine to sell. For the rest of us I can imagine at most an email or letter at some point reminding us of the penalties of distilling alcohol without a license.

While I DO agree that we should not totally 'freak out' over this, and should step back and ponder a bit, I DO NOT follow the belief that this is done to 'intimidate' home distillers at all. It may be used to intimidate the still makers into keeping better records, but not the end user of those stills.

The reason I claim it is not to intimidate us, is that 99% of the people who are actively distilling, or who have bought a still from a manufacturer in the past 3 years, will have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA that their information has been presented to the feds . Just keep that last thought in mind, when pondering over this issue. I have ABSOLUTELY no trust in our gooberment at this time, and large collections of what should be personal information like this make that trust even less.

[Husker]

And I betcha the agent who started this investigation is a member, or at least a lurker, on this forum, and is laughing his ass off right about now...

I will assure you, that we have numerous fed / state agents that monitor these forums. I am not sure if any are active members, but posts are certainly being read.

[bghed32]

is it not up to those who are responsibly doing this as a hobby or would like to to counter the TV show misinformation out there and start applying pressure to those who can make a difference. it is time for these laws to change

[mash rookie]

I would not for a moment believe that they are playing games or just trying to intimidate people. Just trying to pick on manufacturers? Thats BS. They are not breaking laws. Dont let Mile High fool you. He is trying to play this down and is concerned with his business. He wont sell a single part if folks think they are reported to the Feds.

The Feds don't play games. They are either on the side lines deciding what and when to move or they are jumping in with both feet.

Even as a kid it was obvious that there was a big difference between the city cops, County and the State cops. The state guys were by far the most professional. Polite, courteous but nobody to be screwed with. The Feds are the big dogs.

The Feds are professional to the nines. Consider that and that they believe in law and do their best to uphold it. While we believe the law is wrong. They believe a law is a law. If they have decided that this is getting out of control they will be knocking on doors.

You don't want them looking at you. Some body is going down. Maybe many. I agree that they wont go after every guy with a small apartment still. They probably will take down guys with larger rigs. Look at how many idiots here that have been talking about their 55 gallon fermenters?

I would not be surprised if every customer that purchased a rig gets a letter saying something. What person in their right mind would continue to operate after receiving a letter from the Feds?

[blind drunk]

They probably will take down guys with larger rigs. Look at how many idiots here that have been talking about their 55 gallon fermenters?

Maybe time for a new HD Policy - no photos of jumbo home rigs no talk about really big fermentors ...

[milehidistilling]

I would not for a moment believe that they are playing games or just trying to intimidate people. Just trying to pick on manufacturers? Thats BS. They are not breaking laws. Dont let Mile High fool you. He is trying to play this down and is concerned with his business. He wont sell a single part if folks think they are reported to the Feds.

I only told you my opinion and what they told me. We all knew thy have the right to this info its allover there web site.
The TTB is about revenue what are they going to gain coming after home distillers?
The list thy will get will have about 80000 to 90000 people for three years of still sales
I have my permit and us my distiller but I keep it clean.

[Jimbo]

They probably will take down guys with larger rigs. Look at how many idiots here that have been talking about their 55 gallon fermenters?

Maybe time for a new HD Policy - no photos of jumbo home rigs no talk about really big fermentors ...

Or maybe we let the idiots sort themselves out but yackin on here about their production size rigs. Darwin awards and all that. Give the feds something to hone in on instead of picking one of us randomly.

[blind drunk]

They probably will take down guys with larger rigs. Look at how many idiots here that have been talking about their 55 gallon fermenters?

Maybe time for a new HD Policy - no photos of jumbo home rigs no talk about really big fermentors ...

Or maybe we let the idiots sort themselves out but yackin on here about their production size rigs. Darwin awards and all that. Give the feds something to hone in on instead of picking one of us randomly.

I agree, however -

I just don't want this entire site winning the Darwin award because the authorities can use a really wide brush to tarnish with if they choose to. It might look bad for HD, that's all.

[rad14701]

They probably will take down guys with larger rigs. Look at how many idiots here that have been talking about their 55 gallon fermenters?

Maybe time for a new HD Policy - no photos of jumbo home rigs no talk about really big fermentors ...

We do have a policy that disallows boilers larger than what we consider "hobby scale" and that size is a 15 gallon beer keg, yet we'll let boilers up to 25 gallons slide using our discretion... Nothing wrong with a 55 gallon fermenter as it would merely supply several boiler charges with a "hobby scale" boiler... The more times we reiterate points like this the better we look from a hobbyist standpoint and part of our mission here is to prove that we can self-regulate the hobby in an appropriate fashion... Whether home distillation for personal consumption is illegal or not there are a lot of us doing it and if we can continue along these lines then there might be a chance for decriminalization without federal oversight... That's my story and I'm sticking to it...

[sssjrcowboys]

Does anyone know if clawhammer supply recieved a letter about this as well? Or does it make a difference that they only sell kits and not completed units?

[Bayou-Ruler]

Its being discussed on the Brewhaus form too, little more input from Rick here:

http://www.brewhausforum.com/showthread ... m-Brewhaus" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[rgarry]

This site is registered in the US. Probably should have one of our friends host it across the pond.

[mash rookie]

Okay, giving Mike, Mike and Rick all due respect, Lets look at the bigger picture. A minute ago I was going to say that Mile High, Hillbilly, BH and Still Dragon have brought this down on us. Now I am thinking not really, but they may have unleashed the Dragon. Consequently, The Bald Eagles will be on high alert.

With the US economy still in the toilet, there is a growing interest in distilling. Most folks want to save a couple of bucks. Some are trying to make money. Possibly out of desperation. I think it is a sign of the times.
I believe this is largely due to a dwindling middle class caused by import laws that allow companies like Wally World to rape the middle and lower class under the misconception that they are doing them a favor.

When guys started reaching out to China it was a game changer. As soon as they started importing stills from China, distilling at the hobby level has changed forever. Mark My Words.
In the same way the middle class manufacturing jobs have been undermined by out of control Chinese imports, the Feds may see the US laws about to be undermined by Chinese stills. You first have to understand the landscape of importing from China. They have no respect for patents or Intellectual property. Even less for US laws. Just look at the hallucinogenic drugs being sold as “Bath Salts” that have been reported to be imported from China.

Designs by US still makers will not be respected. US laws that allow still manufacture but not their use play right to the Chinese manufacturing morality.

I speak from experience. I have had my work knocked off and taken to China only to see them screw that guy and flood the US market until demand for the design collapsed.

Once shown the market by others China will flood the US with cheap stills. When I consider this line of thinking, I understand their concern. They already may be too late to the party.

A different line of thinking. We may be in for a hell of a ride members. It may also be a good time to start writing your congressman.