Connecting column to pot with black steel flange?

[vmarkus]

Hello, I am building my first reflux still and have run into a minor set back. When connecting the column to the pot, the only option I could find was a copper fitting screwed into a black steel flange which I will bolt to the top of the pot. I have tried to tin the black steel with solder after sanding it down, but the solder does not want to stick. Is it the end of the world if a little of the black steel will come into contact with the rising vapor? It would only be a very small amount that would contact the vapor, the rest of the steel would be blocked by the top of the pot. If this is not a good idea, I am very open to other ideas. Thank you very much!

[jholmz]

it will rust and send rust into your spirits. why not solder a copper connecter onto the lid. something like this http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =2&t=39820

[5inned]

Hello, I am building my first reflux still and have run into a minor set back. When connecting the column to the pot, the only option I could find was a copper fitting screwed into a black steel flange which I will bolt to the top of the pot. I have tried to tin the black steel with solder after sanding it down, but the solder does not want to stick. Is it the end of the world if a little of the black steel will come into contact with the rising vapor? It would only be a very small amount that would contact the vapor, the rest of the steel would be blocked by the top of the pot. If this is not a good idea, I am very open to other ideas. Thank you very much!

You could also coat all exposed black steel with a thin layer of food safe silicon

[rager]

Hello, I am building my first reflux still and have run into a minor set back. When connecting the column to the pot, the only option I could find was a copper fitting screwed into a black steel flange which I will bolt to the top of the pot. I have tried to tin the black steel with solder after sanding it down, but the solder does not want to stick. Is it the end of the world if a little of the black steel will come into contact with the rising vapor? It would only be a very small amount that would contact the vapor, the rest of the steel would be blocked by the top of the pot. If this is not a good idea, I am very open to other ideas. Thank you very much!

You could also coat all exposed black steel with a thin layer of food safe silicon

just one more variable you have to worry about. keep trying to solder the SS to copper. it took me a full day to do. keep your "spirits" high

[vmarkus]

Thanks for all the input! Since I already soldered the coupler to the column it would be most cost effective to use what I've got. Coating it in silicon sounds easy enough, but do you guys know of any way to tin steel?

[Prairiepiss]

Hello, I am building my first reflux still and have run into a minor set back. When connecting the column to the pot, the only option I could find was a copper fitting screwed into a black steel flange which I will bolt to the top of the pot. I have tried to tin the black steel with solder after sanding it down, but the solder does not want to stick. Is it the end of the world if a little of the black steel will come into contact with the rising vapor? It would only be a very small amount that would contact the vapor, the rest of the steel would be blocked by the top of the pot. If this is not a good idea, I am very open to other ideas. Thank you very much!

You could also coat all exposed black steel with a thin layer of food safe silicon

Really? It's bad enough that the op wants to use black iron. Now someone is recommending another material not considered safe to use by this forums standards. And is actually covered by one of the rules we live by.

Maybe both of you should spend some time and do a little research on this forum.

[vmarkus]

Thanks Prairiepiss! I really appreciate the feedback.

[corene1]

It looks to me like the flange is cast iron not steel. I don't think cast iron will take solder , I have always used brass to braze cast iron . I am thinking you should unsolder the joint and clean up the copper and reuse it getting rid of the cast piece. Will you be joining copper to stainless? If so I have had good luck with silver brazing and it is quite strong. The first post has a very detailed example of joining copper to stainless with standard lead free solder which would be much cheaper than using silver braze and strong to boot.

[drinkingdog]

You need to get rid of the black iron or cast iron flange. Copper or stainless. Do it right or don't do it.

[vmarkus]

The flange is definitely black steel, or at least that's what it was labeled as at the hardware store. The one in the picture could be iron but that one is just an example to show what I am dealing with. What about this idea, I could put an insert into the column that would run into the pot, allowing no vapor to come into contact with the steel. Would that be okay or do I need to just ditch the steel for good?

[Richard7]

I could put an insert into the column that would run into the pot, allowing no vapor to come into contact with the steel.

If no vapor could come in contact with it you would be good, but I don't see how that could ever be done.

My advice would be get a stainless steel flange. You can get them almost like the one you have pictured. They are not cheap. I gave $60+ for mine in the 2 inch version. But it is a one time purchase and it's not like it will ever wear out.
Question every part of your still that see's vapor. Alcohol is a strong solvent, add heat and vapor form and it can get anywhere.
Keep it safe

[rad14701]

I just don't get the need for such a robust flange... Piss poor advice after bad advice is rampant in this topic... The best advice here has been to scrap the flange idea altogether and use a copper fitting... It boggles my mind how folks can add complication upon complication in order to avoid an otherwise simple solution...

[Dnderhead]

you can also flair the end and solder it fast.no fitting nesasary.

[lickermaker]

Or you could get rid of the D@^^(\) thing and build with known safe material or just go to the store and buy a bottle if you really looking for the easiest way to get alchohol!

[Pesty]

If you want to use a flange.. use this one.. it's copper. Dont' forger the PTFE gasket, get two 1/8" thick ones to ensure a really good seal with your pot lid/bowl.

http://www.zorotools.com/g/Flange%20Cas ... /00094465/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[drinkingdog]

+10 to what Rad said

[5inned]

Hello, I am building my first reflux still and have run into a minor set back. When connecting the column to the pot, the only option I could find was a copper fitting screwed into a black steel flange which I will bolt to the top of the pot. I have tried to tin the black steel with solder after sanding it down, but the solder does not want to stick. Is it the end of the world if a little of the black steel will come into contact with the rising vapor? It would only be a very small amount that would contact the vapor, the rest of the steel would be blocked by the top of the pot. If this is not a good idea, I am very open to other ideas. Thank you very much!

You could also coat all exposed black steel with a thin layer of food safe silicon

Really? It's bad enough that the op wants to use black iron. Now someone is recommending another material not considered safe to use by this forums standards. And is actually covered by one of the rules we live by.

Maybe both of you should spend some time and do a little research on this forum.

I just figured it was safe to use silicon gaskets so why not food safe silicon..........silicon does not fall under the same class of polyethylene terephthalate, high density polyethylene , polyvynil chloride, polystyrene, or polycarbinate. All I'm asking is why a temperature rated(400deg) food safe silicon would not be safe. Reasons not to use the above mentioned plastics are self explanitory, but the food safe temperature silicon leaves no residual flavor and you can eat the stuff once it's cured???

[choppinlow]

Because it is not safe. If you care about your well being at all, then please heed their warnings and err to the side of caution.

For more of a specific answer to your question, those ratings are not made with high temp solvents like what comes out of a wash when distilling. High temp solvents can eat and leach all sorts of nasty and dangerous compounds and most "food-gade" materials are not designed for what you are suggesting.

Be safe and smart. Copper. Stainless steel. PTFE/cork/wood/dough. That is all you need.

[5inned]

Because it is not safe. If you care about your well being at all, then please heed their warnings and err to the side of caution.

For more of a specific answer to your question, those ratings are not made with high temp solvents like what comes out of a wash when distilling. High temp solvents can eat and leach all sorts of nasty and dangerous compounds and most "food-gade" materials are not designed for what you are suggesting.

Be safe and smart. Copper. Stainless steel. PTFE/cork/wood/dough. That is all you need.

I think it's safe to say we all care about our safety, personally what I did was take a 2" cap turn it upside down and solder it on to my stainless pot. And I used the highest lead content solder I could find

[choppinlow]

OK. Good luck to you.

[Prairiepiss]

Because it is not safe. If you care about your well being at all, then please heed their warnings and err to the side of caution.

For more of a specific answer to your question, those ratings are not made with high temp solvents like what comes out of a wash when distilling. High temp solvents can eat and leach all sorts of nasty and dangerous compounds and most "food-gade" materials are not designed for what you are suggesting.

Be safe and smart. Copper. Stainless steel. PTFE/cork/wood/dough. That is all you need.

I think it's safe to say we all care about our safety, personally what I did was take a 2" cap turn it upside down and solder it on to my stainless pot. And I used the highest lead content solder I could find

Really? Your not funny.

Like I posted.

Maybe both of you should spend some time and do a little research on this forum.

If you would take the time to research something here. Before you assume its ok to suggest it here. You mite know why. By this forums standards silicone is covered by rule #8. In the rules we live by. And doing a simple search would give you more then enough threads that have had that discussion. Over and over and over.

[redmud]

+1 on use safe materials. I just cut off 2 1/2" of some 3/4" copper pipe pounded it flat then I cut out the largest circle possible drilled a 1 3/4" hole in the middle then 8 small 1/8" holes around the perimeter soldered it to my column drilled my lid to matchand bolted it down with PTFE gasket and stainless nuts and bolts safe and sanitary.

[5inned]

+1 on use safe materials. I just cut off 2 1/2" of some 3/4" copper pipe pounded it flat then I cut out the largest circle possible drilled a 1 3/4" hole in the middle then 8 small 1/8" holes around the perimeter soldered it to my column drilled my lid to matchand bolted it down with PTFE gasket and stainless nuts and bolts safe and sanitary.

Excellant idea, I just might give that a try on my 2nd build........thanks

[5inned]

Because it is not safe. If you care about your well being at all, then please heed their warnings and err to the side of caution.

For more of a specific answer to your question, those ratings are not made with high temp solvents like what comes out of a wash when distilling. High temp solvents can eat and leach all sorts of nasty and dangerous compounds and most "food-gade" materials are not designed for what you are suggesting.

Be safe and smart. Copper. Stainless steel. PTFE/cork/wood/dough. That is all you need.

I think it's safe to say we all care about our safety, personally what I did was take a 2" cap turn it upside down and solder it on to my stainless pot. And I used the highest lead content solder I could find

Really? Your not funny.

Like I posted.

Maybe both of you should spend some time and do a little research on this forum.

If you would take the time to research something here. Before you assume its ok to suggest it here. You mite know why. By this forums standards silicone is covered by rule #8. In the rules we live by. And doing a simple search would give you more then enough threads that have had that discussion. Over and over and over.

Man will you relax, I already explained why I made the post........I assumed silicon was not plastic or polymer of any kind...........and it is common practice to use silicon gaskets and or seals, even latex if available........if I have offended you in some way I'm sorry.

[wv_cooker]

It might be a real good idea for you to drop by the reading lounge and read the rules we live by. Then slow down and come back and realize that because something says food grade that doesn't necessarily mean alcohol safe. High proof alcohol could very well eat through something that says food safe. Next issue is that you are trying to prove yourself right to one of the highly experienced builders and fabricators here. You might just need the experience of PrairiePiss someday and I can't imagine him wanting to be much help. Just say-in from one newb to another slow and easy usually works a little better here.
Hope this helps.

[mash rookie]

I just don't get the need for such a robust flange... Piss poor advice after bad advice is rampant in this topic... The best advice here has been to scrap the flange idea altogether and use a copper fitting... It boggles my mind how folks can add complication upon complication in order to avoid an otherwise simple solution...

Or...you could sand blast it, then copper plate it, then polish it, then tin it with silver solder, then solder it to your stainless lid. Or...listen to rad and go buy a copper fitting. Or.....

[myles]

OK folks. Lets just assume for a moment that there is a structural reason to use such a robust flange. If that is the case, and given that there are better alternatives, is it possible to use an iron flange? Off course it is. Who knows - perhaps he has a whole load of these at absolutely minimal cost.

So what to do? Screw a copper fitting (perhaps a thread to solder socket adaptor) into the flange so that it protrudes slightly past the end of the thread. Cut a disc of thin copper sheet to the same circumference as the flange and solder this to the end of the copper thread. The iron is now structural, and will not be in any contact with the vapour path.

YOU CAN BUY THESE AS STANDARD ITEMS. Copper /steel flanges - but if you wish to build your own you can.

Personally I wouldn't. The weight is my biggest objection - but if you really HAVE to do this - then you can. However, there are a lot better alternatives.

[RonH3154]

I just figured it was safe to use silicon gaskets so why not food safe silicon..........silicon does not fall under the same class of polyethylene terephthalate, high density polyethylene , polyvynil chloride, polystyrene, or polycarbinate. All I'm asking is why a temperature rated(400deg) food safe silicon would not be safe. Reasons not to use the above mentioned plastics are self explanitory, but the food safe temperature silicon leaves no residual flavor and you can eat the stuff once it's cured???

Food safe silicone is ok for low concentrations of alcohol at room temperature however it is not safe at high temperatures and high concentrations. There are chemical compatible charts that show the safe materials for different chemicals and temperatures. The only synthetic that is truly safe with distilling is PTFE.

[vmarkus]

Thank you all for your feedback! I'll throw up a picture of my final solution.

[rad14701]

I just figured it was safe to use silicon gaskets so why not food safe silicon..........silicon does not fall under the same class of polyethylene terephthalate, high density polyethylene , polyvynil chloride, polystyrene, or polycarbinate. All I'm asking is why a temperature rated(400deg) food safe silicon would not be safe. Reasons not to use the above mentioned plastics are self explanitory, but the food safe temperature silicon leaves no residual flavor and you can eat the stuff once it's cured???

Food safe silicone is ok for low concentrations of alcohol at room temperature however it is not safe at high temperatures and high concentrations. There are chemical compatible charts that show the safe materials for different chemicals and temperatures. The only synthetic that is truly safe with distilling is PTFE.

Correct...!!! And what the general public doesn't understand is the term Food Safe... That term only relates to the original intended purpose of an item... High temperature high proof alcohol is not food, it is a caustic and hazardous chemical... All bets are off with regard to food safe for the purpose of distilling alcohol... And not knowing is no excuse because we rant and rave and reiterate this over and over again, yet people still just don't get it or choose to use an alternate and flawed thought process... I'm perplexed over what part of being safe people don't get and why they don't think we know what we're talking about...!!!

Posting the same time as vmarkus...