email from Brewhaus

[Tater]

This just in from the folks at hillbilly stills


speak of the devil... here is a copy of their letter sent out today:

Have you heard the news about the TTB? They are on the move and going to each and every maker of distillation equipment. They have been here and this is what we, Hillbilly Stills, had to do and what we were told:
First of all we had to turn over names and serial numbers of each still we have sold. We will have to do this every quarter. For us, that was over 3,000 records. Secondly, it is not illegal to own a distillation column. What makes it illegal is what you do with your column. Now, there is no way we can speculate on what they are going to do and for us say 'what they may do is...' is so unfair to you. There is no need to worry or stress over this. If you are honest with yourself, haven't you kinda known that they could do something with all the shows on making moonshine airing? Here at HBS, we are not stressing or worrying about them and sleep very well each and every night. If there was something to be concerned about please believe us and know we would give every single one of you a heads up.

here i removed the section of the e-mail not relevant to the topic

Just know, if we honestly thought this visit from the TTB was anything to stress or worry over, we would tell you. Please, don't give it another thought. Enjoy life and don't fret or stress...


end of e-mail

I wouldn't believe a word hillbilly stills says .In my opinion all they care about is getting your money .Its no skin off their ass if feds come after you .

[Prairiepiss]

So the TTB is now requiring a quarterly report on still sales? That means they are going to do something. Or make it look like they are doing something. What they are up too. Is anyone's guess at this point.

I wonder if they get these lists. And find out how many are actually being sold. Which way will they go? It would take them years to follow up on all those sales. Using people they don't have. At this point they would be better off making it legal. But who knows?

[Stainless]

Honest officer, I stole it off a thief

[Pyewacket]

It does make me wonder if their only intention is to peacock the situation, let the vein of fear run its course through the distilling community simply by publicly requesting the giant list of names. With the sole intention of making you feel like big brother is watching you--In efforts to simply reduce the number that partake in the production of homemade spirits.

They may solidify the fear a bit by picking a name or two out of the thousands and set an example. Sorta like the industry persecuting the handful of individuals that were illegally downloading music from Napster in the later 90s...a lot of good that did them.

If this is the case, it probably will do very little in the long run to dissuade the practice. In the end, they probably have little resources to pursue but a few people...making the odds of getting caught still very small.

On a side note, I also would be willing to donate for lobby efforts.

[Doogie]

This just in from the folks at hillbilly stills
....
If you are honest with yourself, haven't you kinda known that they could do something with all the shows on making moonshine airing? Here at HBS, we are not stressing or worrying about them and sleep very well each and every night.
....

Really?
If you are honest with yourselves HBS, haven't you kinda known that the only reason you are selling more stills could do something with all the shows? Kinda nice they are saying "people like you have yerselves to blame". Wonder, did they have the care of stating that owning a still may be illegal during the purchase process?

I sure bet HBS is not losing any sleep over this, and that THEY are not worrying about it - THEY have done nothing wrong. THEY sell stills, THEY are allowed to, and as long as THEY cough up the lists as indicated then THEY will not get in trouble - their clients may though.

Notice they talk about owning a column is not illegal - nice little sneak - is owning a STILL UNIT illegal? I suspect for many of their clients, it technically is, but notice they talk about the column only - they are correct, but they mislead you into thinking your UNIT is legal. It is like stating "owning bullets is not illegal" when they sell both bullets and the guns that use them.

What a crock of sh...ugar wash

[rad14701]

I say if the TTB wants to go after someone it should be the producers of those atrocious television shows because they are promoting illegal sales as well as unsafe practices... And the producers and film crews of these show are actually guilty of conspiracy or collusion... Look at it this way, if the producers and film crew were on site during a TTB raid do you think flashing credentials mitigates their guilt by association...??? Nope...!!! Their own equipment and video would be considered evidence against them, just like the moonshiners... Just like being an accomplice to murder or bank robbery... I'm no lawyer but I know enough about law to know that...

We, as hobbyists, for the most part, take more pride in what we make and how we go about doing so... We don't set up clandestine sites on someone else's property and crank out as much moonshine as possible with the intentions of lining our pockets with profits... And by displaying that we are about safety and hobby scale production for personal consumption we are choosing to separate ourselves from those attempting to profit from their blatantly illegal activities... All we ask for is the same or similar rights that home beer brewers and wine makers have...

[Jimbo]

I say if the TTB wants to go after someone it should be the producers of those atrocious television shows because they are promoting illegal sales as well as unsafe practices... And the producers and film crews of these show are actually guilty of conspiracy or collusion... Look at it this way, if the producers and film crew were on site during a TTB raid do you think flashing credentials mitigates their guilt by association...??? Nope...!!! Their own equipment and video would be considered evidence against them, just like the moonshiners... Just like being an accomplice to murder or bank robbery... I'm no lawyer but I know enough about law to know that...

We, as hobbyists, for the most part, take more pride in what we make and how we go about doing so... We don't set up clandestine sites on someone else's property and crank out as much moonshine as possible with the intentions of lining our pockets with profits... And by displaying that we are about safety and hobby scale production for personal consumption we are choosing to separate ourselves from those attempting to profit from their blatantly illegal activities... All we ask for is the same or similar rights that home beer brewers and wine makers have... and even dope growers in some states for Christs sake

[blind drunk]

"Yesterday we received a formal request from the TTB for our list of still sales for three years past (the maximum that they can request) and ongoing. Supposedly they are doing the same with other producers, as well. We realize that this change in the landscape may result in the changing of people’s minds regarding their purchase (or, at the very least, result in more people obtaining appropriate licensing). Please advise if you would still like us to ship your order, if you want to give it more consideration, or if you would prefer to cancel entirely, and we will move forward accordingly. Regards, Rick

This just in from the folks at hillbilly stills

Have you heard the news about the TTB? They are on the move and going to each and every maker of distillation equipment. They have been here and this is what we, Hillbilly Stills, had to do and what we were told:
First of all we had to turn over names and serial numbers of each still we have sold. We will have to do this every quarter. For us, that was over 3,000 records. Secondly, it is not illegal to own a distillation column. What makes it illegal is what you do with your column. Now, there is no way we can speculate on what they are going to do and for us say 'what they may do is...' is so unfair to you. There is no need to worry or stress over this. If you are honest with yourself, haven't you kinda known that they could do something with all the shows on making moonshine airing? Here at HBS, we are not stressing or worrying about them and sleep very well each and every night. If there was something to be concerned about please believe us and know we would give every single one of you a heads up.

Just know, if we honestly thought this visit from the TTB was anything to stress or worry over, we would tell you. Please, don't give it another thought. Enjoy life and don't fret or stress...

end of e-mail

I have no axe to grind, but note the differences in tone and customer service between the two.

[demodenny]

Don't they have to actually catch you in the act of distilling to be able to prosecute you?

[Beerbrewer]

I would think if you had illegally made likker somewhere about your house and a still you would be brought up for it.

[stillin]

Twist it around and analyze it all you want. Come up with any excuse you want when the feds come a knockin. if they want you they already gotcha. If you got a still, wash or product in your house dont think you gonna outsmart em, they done already done their homework when they get there. We all choose to indulge in this hobby knowing full well it's illegal. As grown men and women we all know when you do something illegal it is possible to get arrested for it. It's common knowledge that your info. can be turned over to the feds if you buy a still from a licensed dealer. What the Feds do from here is anyone's guess. What you do from here is up to you. To quote goose eye "layin blame is pointless". It is what it is!

[drinkingdog]

Hey Guys,

Sorry about being late to the party.

I am the owner of http://www.WhiskeyStill.net" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Someone mentioned they hated that the moonshiners show brought light to our hobby and are endangering it, but I think exactly the opposite. It has helped bring a fresh new light, and more importantly A LOT of new people to the hobby. And people are exactly what we need to get bills passed.The

-Jason Stone
The Whiskey Still Company

I feel the same as Jason in regards to the moonshiners show. I know that this site is all about home distilling for yourself and I agree 200 % with that, BUT it takes numbers a great many numbers of people to change laws that are in place. The more people that partake of this hobby the more likely one day it may be legal the same as beer and wine is for home use. The show is what it is and I think in the long run it could help in legalization. When it comes to HBS versus other manufacturers there is definitely a different tone in their messages. It seems to me like HBS is pushing for you to believe there is nothing to worry about. If you choose to believe that it is your privilege. Some think that our government doesn't have the resources to pursue this to a great extent, once again that is your privilege. I can't say it enough the still manufacturers need to start the movement towards legalization. They have nothing to lose everything to gain. I am not saying that it is just their fight. No it is everyone that enjoys this hobby. They just need to start the wag9n rolling and then the rest of us can jump on

[mash rookie]

This just in from the folks at hillbilly stills


speak of the devil... here is a copy of their letter sent out today:

Have you heard the news about the TTB? They are on the move and going to each and every maker of distillation equipment. They have been here and this is what we, Hillbilly Stills, had to do and what we were told:
First of all we had to turn over names and serial numbers of each still we have sold. We will have to do this every quarter. For us, that was over 3,000 records. Secondly, it is not illegal to own a distillation column. What makes it illegal is what you do with your column. Now, there is no way we can speculate on what they are going to do and for us say 'what they may do is...' is so unfair to you. There is no need to worry or stress over this. If you are honest with yourself, haven't you kinda known that they could do something with all the shows on making moonshine airing? Here at HBS, we are not stressing or worrying about them and sleep very well each and every night. If there was something to be concerned about please believe us and know we would give every single one of you a heads up.

here i removed the section of the e-mail not relevant to the topic

Just know, if we honestly thought this visit from the TTB was anything to stress or worry over, we would tell you. Please, don't give it another thought. Enjoy life and don't fret or stress...


end of e-mail

This is the biggest line of crap I have EVER heard. Are they kidding?? Relax, dont worry, it wont hurt at all. Dont worry about it. We gotcha covered. Dont give it another thought. Bend over, SMILE!
They are so worried about their own business they will throw you under the bus in a heartbeat to save their income. He is such a stand up guy he screwed me out of a stupid lousy $40. Bring on a liable suit KS. I have all the PM's and emails! Where the fuck has integrity gone in this country? Man up Mike.

Almost the last guys to come out. (Almost) You others know who I am talking about! Anybody want to guess who we have not heard from?
Ahh we did not hear from the feds.... ahh, we didnt give them your name. Ahh who us?

Its looking like Brewhaus is the only company with business morals. They were at least quickly out front. I respect that.

[goose eye]

Yup I'd never trust that business ever again



So im tole

[clawhammer]

Does anyone know if clawhammer supply recieved a letter about this as well? Or does it make a difference that they only sell kits and not completed units?

We have not received a request.

Previously TTB rules clearly (but perhaps not intentionally) exempted manufacturers of kits / parts because the products did not meet the definition of a functioning distilling apparatus. BUT, holy sh!t, I just checked the TTB's definitions (because I was going to cut and paste them here) and noticed that they changed. This has to have happened within the last few months because I was just looking at them not too long ago.

Here's how the "Manufacturer of Stills" definition now reads:

"Manufacturer of stills. Any person who manufactures any still or condenser, as defined in this section, or any other apparatus to be used for the purpose of distilling. The term includes a person furnishing separate parts of a complete still or condenser, of any kind, to a person who assembles same into a still or condenser for distilling and a person who procures materials or apparatus and converts same into a still or condenser for distilling."

Although we have not received any communication from the TTB, the updated definition now clearly includes us.

Does anyone know anything about the process for creating these rules, regulations, definitions, etc...? I'm surprised that a fundamental change like that can be made without any legislative approval.

[clawhammer]

Regarding my post above, here's how the definition of "manufacturer of stills" used to read: "Any person who manufactures any still or condenser to be used in distilling shall be deemed a manufacturer of stills." That's it. Although it has been changed on the TTB's site, many other gov sites still cite this as the definition. I'm going to look into this and will report back with what I find...

[stillin]

Get over it fellas you all on the list. Hide yor stuff or keep on keepin on! It is what it is

[puig]

The only way round this is to make all payments in cash and for the sellers to offer pickup points

In regards to why, this is happening, lets be honest with ourselfs , since the internet this hobby has grown AND becoming VERY VERY PUBLIC , how many online sellers offer Still's , Boiler's , Turbo Yeast ,Whiskey & Rum Essence , Etc , Etc , ....... Its OK saying i only make perfum & oil's in my boiler BUT theres alot of people making Shine .. and the final straw was that TV show .

In the eyes of TBB , Home distillers have flaunted the law for way too long and have become to visible.

[chrisc69]

The only way round this is to make all payments in cash and for the sellers to offer pickup points

In regards to why, this is happening, lets be honest with ourselfs , since the internet this hobby has grown AND becoming VERY VERY PUBLIC , how many online sellers offer Still's , Boiler's , Turbo Yeast ,Whiskey & Rum Essence , Etc , Etc , ....... Its OK saying i only make perfum & oil's in my boiler BUT theres alot of people making Shine .. and the final straw was that TV show .

In the eyes of TBB , Home distillers have flaunted the law for way too long and have become to visible.

well ill keep making my shine if they come knocking and i get charged ill be defending myself that i never have and never will and hopefully can try and push some things out their about how i brew beer etc and that is legal how is this any different but ill prob still get charged and fined but ill just build a new still and carry on end of the day i have built my still and am not to stressed

[Scurrillous]

Previously TTB rules clearly (but perhaps not intentionally) exempted manufacturers of kits / parts because the products did not meet the definition of a functioning distilling apparatus. ... I just checked the TTB's definitions .. and noticed that they changed.
Here's how the "Manufacturer of Stills" definition now reads:
.. The term includes a person furnishing separate parts of a complete still or condenser, of any kind, to a person who assembles same into a still or condenser for distilling and a person who procures materials or apparatus and converts same into a still or condenser for distilling."

Although we have not received any communication from the TTB, the updated definition now clearly includes us.

Does anyone know anything about the process for creating these rules, regulations, definitions, etc...? I'm surprised that a fundamental change like that can be made without any legislative approval.

Lot's of changes going on now without your direct consent.
Extra judicial killings of Americans are legal now.
I feel the same way you do.

[noobshine]

The only way round this is to make all payments in cash and for the sellers to offer pickup points

In regards to why, this is happening, lets be honest with ourselfs , since the internet this hobby has grown AND becoming VERY VERY PUBLIC , how many online sellers offer Still's , Boiler's , Turbo Yeast ,Whiskey & Rum Essence , Etc , Etc , ....... Its OK saying i only make perfum & oil's in my boiler BUT theres alot of people making Shine .. and the final straw was that TV show .

In the eyes of TBB , Home distillers have flaunted the law for way too long and have become to visible.

well ill keep making my shine if they come knocking and i get charged ill be defending myself that i never have and never will and hopefully can try and push some things out their about how i brew beer etc and that is legal how is this any different but ill prob still get charged and fined but ill just build a new still and carry on end of the day i have built my still and am not to stressed

if you built your own still you should have nothing to worry about. only way they would come knocking is if someone ratted you out. Its been said earlier ITT but i think it bears repeating. If they come knocking you dont open that door past a crack unless they got a warrant. if they got a warrant. then you fucked up somewhere and they already got evidence against you. but again... never give a cop permission to search you or to come in your house. I dated a female sherriffs deputy a few yrs ago and i barely let her in my house but i did let her search me whenever she wanted

[Buteo]

That's good advice noobshine. The fact that you purchased a still head doesn't mean you used it to do anything illegal.
I can't believe a judge would issue a search warrant based on that information alone. Remember we still have the right to remain silent.

[drinkingdog]

This just in from the folks at hillbilly stills


speak of the devil... here is a copy of their letter sent out today:

Have you heard the news about the TTB? They are on the move and going to each and every maker of distillation equipment. They have been here and this is what we, Hillbilly Stills, had to do and what we were told:
First of all we had to turn over names and serial numbers of each still we have sold. We will have to do this every quarter. For us, that was over 3,000 records. Secondly, it is not illegal to own a distillation column. What makes it illegal is what you do with your column. Now, there is no way we can speculate on what they are going to do and for us say 'what they may do is...' is so unfair to you. There is no need to worry or stress over this. If you are honest with yourself, haven't you kinda known that they could do something with all the shows on making moonshine airing? Here at HBS, we are not stressing or worrying about them and sleep very well each and every night. If there was something to be concerned about please believe us and know we would give every single one of you a heads up.

here i removed the section of the e-mail not relevant to the topic

Just know, if we honestly thought this visit from the TTB was anything to stress or worry over, we would tell you. Please, don't give it another thought. Enjoy life and don't fret or stress...


end of e-mail

I'm glad they are sleeping very well every night. What a frigging joke. They got some pretty big balls over there. They left out the part about how they are still laughing all the way to the bank.

[Gatorgubba]

This just in from the folks at hillbilly stills


speak of the devil... here is a copy of their letter sent out today:

Have you heard the news about the TTB? They are on the move and going to each and every maker of distillation equipment. They have been here and this is what we, Hillbilly Stills, had to do and what we were told:
First of all we had to turn over names and serial numbers of each still we have sold. We will have to do this every quarter. For us, that was over 3,000 records. Secondly, it is not illegal to own a distillation column. What makes it illegal is what you do with your column. Now, there is no way we can speculate on what they are going to do and for us say 'what they may do is...' is so unfair to you. There is no need to worry or stress over this. If you are honest with yourself, haven't you kinda known that they could do something with all the shows on making moonshine airing? Here at HBS, we are not stressing or worrying about them and sleep very well each and every night. If there was something to be concerned about please believe us and know we would give every single one of you a heads up.

here i removed the section of the e-mail not relevant to the topic

Just know, if we honestly thought this visit from the TTB was anything to stress or worry over, we would tell you. Please, don't give it another thought. Enjoy life and don't fret or stress...


end of e-mail

I'm glad they are sleeping very well every night. What a frigging joke. They got some pretty big balls over there. They left out the part about how they are still laughing all the way to the bank.

I've always had good service from HBS. I think they were just trying to reassure us. The TTB can only check records. Do your research. Its not illegal to own a still, column, etc. You can have it all you want. What you do with it is what is illegal. Just keep the sucker clean, jeez people! You all sound like mad guilty people. I'm sure Brewhaus was just as shocked as all these other companys that got a call or visit or whatever happened. These guys don't have a business without us. They know that. No one is laughing. You people kill me. Brewhaus said they had half their orders cancelled. Come on guys, lay off it!

[Paracelsus]

Twist it around and analyze it all you want. Come up with any excuse you want when the feds come a knockin. if they want you they already gotcha. If you got a still, wash or product in your house dont think you gonna outsmart em, they done already done their homework when they get there.

Which is why I lawyered up and advised others to do the same. I am glad I did, I now have some peace of mind over all of this.

[Doogie]

I've always had good service from HBS. I think they were just trying to reassure us. The TTB can only check records. Do your research. Its not illegal to own a still, column, etc. You can have it all you want. What you do with it is what is illegal. Just keep the sucker clean, jeez people! You all sound like mad guilty people. I'm sure Brewhaus was just as shocked as all these other companys that got a call or visit or whatever happened. These guys don't have a business without us. They know that. No one is laughing. You people kill me. Brewhaus said they had half their orders cancelled. Come on guys, lay off it!

I am not questioning their service/quality, anything. But for them to say "don't worry" reeks of a company hoping not to see mass cancellations like you state Brewhaus has. I highly doubt they care about their former still buyers getting nailed. I am sure they are all concerned about maximizing sales while disregarding the purchaser's legal safety. They know they have no business without us - and as such are trying to keep the sheep calm while the wolves organize.

Something tells me your new to here status and defense of HBS may be a little, umm, skewed ....

[Gatorgubba]

I'm sure it is skewed, I've only had good service from them. I do think you are right and they are hoping they don't have mass cancellations, what company wouldn't. I'm not to worried, yet, simply because the TTB can only check records. I got a "new" newsletter from them just a little bit ago. Have you gotten it yet? That's me assuming you get their newsletters.

[Doogie]

No, I have never purchased distilling stuff online (thank goodness). Luckily I am handy and was able to build a still myself. As for ingredients, I have someone local to me I can go to. I only use baker's yeast, dont need anyone to supply that

[waterdistiller]

Do you think it makes sense to cancel an order made prior to this investigation if the item has not been built or shipped yet? Meaning it was ordered and paid for but I'm still waiting for it to be built. I have to opportunity now to cancel the order but I'm assuming my name and address have already been handed over and I already need to start disposing of my prior equipment.

[goose eye]

gator say it aint illegal to own a rig. do tell. aint good getin tunel vision when every alphabet agency can arrest you.
as far as reasurein you. whats the odds they have talked with a lawyer


so im tole