uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

[AAIndigo]

""I will use a simple pot stil (5 gallons ) and even though I've read a lot of this thread i'm not exactly sure i should do this recipe with a simple pot stil (because i need to do a striping run and then a spirit run)

then charge the still with all the striping runs from the multiple generations of of the mash, and run it slowly
throw the first 150 ml (fore-shots)""

A simple pot still should work fine. Make sure you dilute to 40% before you do your spirit run. Safty First.

I started this recipe for the first time about 3 weeks ago. Its extremely easy and taisty. I have my 4 generation bubbling away and I hope to be stripping My 3rd run of sour mash this weekend.(I ferment 10 gallons at a time and have a 7 gallon still)

[opihiman911]

I am disappointed in my first UJSSM run.

I followed the recipe to a T, scaled it up make a 12 gallon wash. Racked off 7 gallons of 10.2% wash and set about running my modified detuned BH 2"x 36" column with only 2 copper scrubbies packed in the top, powered by propane, no refuxing, pot still mode.

Everything started out well, I started getting a few drips and pulled my fores & heads off around 173-174F and they tested out at 64%ABV. I collected all my finished product in pint jars so I can make careful cuts, by the time I got to what I would consider the hearts it was streaming off at a small steady trickle and was reading 60%ABV. When I got to pint #5, my ABV had dropped to 50% and the temp has increased to 195F. PInt 6 & 7 my ABV had dropped to 45% and the temps had increased to 200F. I was still pulling product at a broken stream rate, filling a pint jar in 15-20 minutes. I shut down half way filled pint 8 because temps had gone up to 208F and it was reading 42%ABV. I wasn't rushing things, taking in nice and slow, the above 8 pints took me 6 hours to collect start to finish.

Where did I go wrong? According to the site calculators 7 gallons of 10.2% wash should've given me 17 pints of 45% ABV. As what I collect now I have 2 or 3 pints of what I would consider drinkable 55%ABV hearts. The first 3 pints have a yellow tinge to it, 4-8 pints are crystal clear. I'm not seeing any oil streaks or funny smell in the end pints, #8 is still crystal clear and just a faint sweet alcohol smell to it, no hints of wet cardboard or dog smell. Did I shut her down too early? From what I've read most people don't go over 200F. I did but was still getting clean product and a steady thin stream.

So what do I do? I think there is still alcohol left in my wash, by my calculation still another 10 pints. Should I power strip it and just forget about temps? What about what I already collected? Keep the middle 2 pints for oaking & sipping and dump the rest back into generation 2 that I got brewing right now? Would stripping 2 UJSSM washes and adding it into a thrid wash for slow spirt run be better. A six hour spirt run to get 2 pints of product isn't going to work for me.

Thanks,
Opihi

[NZChris]

Read the instructions again. From memory, there is nothing in them to suggest that the low wines you just made is good drinking likker. Keep everything until around 20%-10%, then put them into the wash with Generation 2 when you distill that. That still isn't good drinking likker, but if you are impatient there is a small bit in the heart that you could 'steal'.

From then on, save all your low wines until you have enough to fill your still for a spirit run. This might be around generation 4. That is when you make your good sippin' likker.

[Santa Cruzin]

I am hoping to make UJSSM but would like to go about 1/3 rye 2/3 corn. Has anyone done this? I already read all posts I found on HD search

I understand that spent corn grays and/or floats to the top, does rye do the same?
What type of rye should I use? (malted, cracked etc.)
Will the rye need any prep (boiling etc.)

Also - any other tips you have learned from adding rye to UJSSM please share!
Thanks Y'all

[Odin]

Just add it, whatever form you choose. It will make for a more interesting taste. Less sweet, spicier, more complex.

Odin.

[AlaskaHooch]

Tossed in a couplea vitamin pills as a reward for a tired and struggling yeast and it was off when i screwed the lid back on

Bubblin away merrilly this morn, will see if i'm back to 6 day ferments








NeedAThumbsUpSmiliePunkin

What kind of vitamins do yeasties like?

AlaskaHooch

[Odin]

Multi's and B-vits.

Odin.

[slow trickle]

I've been doing this recipe for a while trying different things to see what I like the best. I like it best made with brown sugar. After about 7 generations I put backset over new grain and start over with new yeast after it cools.

[hiltonhead]

I have used this recipe over and over again and love it aged in 3 liter oak barrels. However can I use blueberries instead of the corn?

[flynpa]

Hello all. I made my first spirit run 2 nights ago. I ended up with 22 pints from 86% to 24% after tossing 250 ml of foreshots. My very inexperienced tongue tells me that I have 6 pints of heads, 8 pints of hearts, and 8 pints of tails. Does this sound reasonable? I plan to age all of the hearts on oak, some plain and some charred. Do I mix it all together then cut it or do I cut it pint by pint? Please help a newbie. Thanks.

Stuart

[frozenthunderbolt]

Hello all. I made my first spirit run 2 nights ago. I ended up with 22 pints from 86% to 24% after tossing 250 ml of foreshots. My very inexperienced tongue tells me that I have 6 pints of heads, 8 pints of hearts, and 8 pints of tails. Does this sound reasonable? Yep. sounds like you've done pretty wellI plan to age all of the hearts on oak, some plain and some charred. Do I mix it all together then cut it Mix all your hearts then drop them to around 55-65%ABV to oak or do I cut it pint by pint? Please help a newbie. Thanks.

Stuart

[Jimbo]

Since youre going for a whiskey and aging on oak, not a neutral, You might want to go a couple pints off each end, 2 heads 2 tails, they will add flavor and character to your whiskey. If youre nervous about doing that blend them 4 pints together and age them on oak seperately. It might shock you and you might discover after 6 months on oak you prefer the straight heads/tails blend over the straight hearts. At any rate, if you like them you can blend them back into your hearts later if not now.

[AlaskaHooch]

In de mean time, I started up some 100% barley UJSSM. Flaked barley. Now, that does give an increadible barley taste. It is all over the place, that smell & taste. Great! Currently it is a 52% white dog. I plan to drink it pure, unaged, unoaked. Maybe water down to 45%, because this is ... too much taste?


Odin.

Hay all,
Reading through this thread, close to 100 pages done and I have ran across this "white dog" phrase. Can someone please tell this novice what "white dog" is?

Thanks again,
AlaskaHooch

[Black Eye]

Clear unaged whiskey

[Jimbo]

'Dog' because fresh distillate has a rough wet dog thing. After a few months the molecules harmonize and the dog runs off. All likkers even white need to age some.

[AlaskaHooch]

Hello again my teachers,
I have seen somewhere that I should not put my oak sticks in above 120 proof. Why is this?

Much appreciated
AlaskaHooch

PS on my second run.

[frozenthunderbolt]

Hello again my teachers,
I have seen somewhere that I should not put my oak sticks in above 120 proof. Why is this?

Putting it into too high a proof draws out a lot of the tannins fast making it very bitter and woody

[AlaskaHooch]

Honest my folks did teach me manners, I just forget them sometimes, so if I have failed to say thank you please forgive me. I don't mean to be rude.
So thank you Oden, Black Eye, Jimbo, Frozenthunderbolt and anyone else I may have forgotten.
Just started my third mash. I have 1 and a half gallons of which I have put the first two quarts aside for oaking at a later date. I have been saving everything that tastes like it may have at least 10% alcohol in it. I don't know what proof they are but I will as soon as my tester gets in. Then I will be able to temper it. If I have it correct that is, or should I run everything over again until after my fourth run? I think I saw some post's where people saved it and some that ran everything again until after the 4th run. any thoughts or did I miss read? The pages get blurry sometimes, so far I am on 145 of 195 pages.

Thank you all again and thank you Uncle Jesse for the recipe.
AlaskaHooch

[Black Eye]

What you choose to run and/or save is your own personal choice based on taste. You're the only one that needs to be happy with your product. There's proper things to do to be safe that you should follow, but no one can tell you what taste good to you.

Save some for drinking and save some for a spirit run. See what you like better.

[WalkingWolf]

'Dog' because fresh distillate has a rough wet dog thing. After a few months the molecules harmonize and the dog runs off. All likkers even white need to age some.

I like the way this was said -- for all intent-and-purposes.

[AlaskaHooch]

Looks like I have some experimenting to do. I have had my 2 quarts open for a few hours and already have noticed a change. When I first jarred it I took a whiff and felt like I just sniffed a fresh cut onion but now it is much more mild. Cant wait to see how it will be in a few weeks.
Thank you both Walking Wolf and Black Eye. Its good to have people like you all around. I would not have gotten this far without this site.

AlaskaHooch

[AlaskaHooch]

Just let it continue to ferment. It gives you extra alcohol and more esters.

Odin.

Greetings again,
I have seen you talk about esters a few times so I decided to look up the word and found so much science jargon that I got lost in all the five dollar words (more words that I don't understand). Would you be so kind and explain esters to me? are they good, bad, avoidable, important, helpful or need to be avoided, things like that. Much appreciated.

AlaskaHooch

[Ayay]

Hello again my teachers,
I have seen somewhere that I should not put my oak sticks in above 120 proof. Why is this?...

The sticks react to water and alcohol in different ways. Too much water and the water solubles come out strong. VisaVersa with the alc; that's why 120 proof is the happy medium.

[Jimbo]

Would you be so kind and explain esters to me? are they good, bad, avoidable, important, helpful or need to be avoided, things like that. Much appreciated.

AlaskaHooch

Hey Hooch, Ill give it a shot. There's 2 words youll see on here used a lot with regard to impurities and flavor, congeners and esters. Strickly speaking congeners refers to all the 'impurities' in the hooch, basically everythngn in your hooch that makes it not a neutral. Depending what youre making some are good, some bad, in good whiskey some of them are crucial. The ones we care most about include esters, aldehydes, fusel oils and higher alcohols (several) etc.

Esters in our context refers to by products of fermentation. In a nutshell esters are acetates produced by combination of alcohols, fatty acids and other molecules. Acetates have a fruity taste, but can also taste solventy in high concentration. One famous ester flavor you may know is the banana clove flavors in a good German Hefeweizen beer. Esters are produced in more or less quantity depending on the yeast type, and the conditions the yeasts have to work in. A clean fermenting yeast like WLP001, US-05, Whiskey and Distillers Yeasts and others, run low and slow, in a healthy environment (nutrients) will produce very few esters. Some British Ale yeasts are known for very high 'fruity' ester production. And of course the german hefeweizen yeast strain produces very strong banana clove esters.

I used to make my whiskeys with clean fermenting yeasts, but more and more Im using English estery strains, (Burton Ale Yeast, US-04 etc) the touch of extra fruit comes through in the whiskey and adds a nice character.

hope this helps?

[AlaskaHooch]

Thank you Jimbo, I understand why I need to run it slow now. I am not only learning in this school. I am learning my still too and I have just recently learned where slow is. I have a thermometer in my still and with this run I am doing now #3 ujsm I have seen a distinctive change in the flavor. now I know why.

Thanks again
AlaskaHooch

[Jimbo]

Low and slow on the still is good because it gives better seperation of the fores, heads and tails. Rippin the run out fast tends to blur and smear the cuts together more with all the vigorous boiling going on. Thats fine for a stripper run becuase youll run it all again, But the spirit run should be run slower. I run a 15.5 g potstill over propane and run strippers at 12 min/qt and spirit runs at 20 min/qt.

But below when I said run low and slow, I meant the ferment. Use a good yeast and run it at the bottom of its temperature range. It will ferment slower but throw way less crap, congeners in your drink than if you ferment it hot and fast. If you want esters (some of the good congeners) use an estery yeast, instead of running hotter for more esters, becuase runnign hotter also throws heaps of bad congeners along with the esters you do want. I hope that made sense.

[AlaskaHooch]

Yes I kind of figured low and slow was for both the ferment and running the still... This last ferment got away from me for a bit. My temp was over 95 F but when I took the lid off I was able to get it under control. I cant leave my fermenter outside for the bears but I have a way to keep it cooler now if it tries to run away again.

As always I appreciate any clarification and instructions as mistakes are more expensive on an island.
AlaskaHooch

[AlaskaHooch]

Waaaaa Hooooo. I made it through 196 pages of this post. Now if anyone replies with the smart ass response like do it again...well .
It has been a real learning experience and I thank all who have contributed to this thread and most of all Uncle Jesse.


AlaskaHooch

[rad14701]

Hello again my teachers,
I have seen somewhere that I should not put my oak sticks in above 120 proof. Why is this?

Much appreciated
AlaskaHooch

PS on my second run.

The standard for aging spirits is 120 - 130 proof (60% - 65% ABV)... Lower proof/%ABV will result in less flavor or longer aging times because there is less alcohol to help leach flavors out of the wood grain...

[Jimbo]

i read something somewhere about which flavor components come out of the wood at which proof, I cant find it again, but I think In the 50's % was more sweetness, and 60's more of the vanillas or something, but Im going off sketchy memory so dont mark my words on this.

The Bourbon book Im reading at the moment talks about the rack houses in Kentucky where they store the barrels. At the top where its very hot and dry the water evaporates more and the proof in an aged barrel can rise up to 140+ (from 125 proof they cask at). At the bottom where its cooler and moist, alcohol evaporates more and the proof drops to as low as 110. If you age your hooch anywhere in this range youre probably fine but 62.5% is the standard.