SSVR question - MuleKicker?

[Halfbaked]

Is the red you????? If not sorry. After looking at that 3 times maybe it might not be.

[acfixer69]

that is Xecros post not mine

AC

[Halfbaked]

Sorry, I thought it was you. I see that it wasn't.

[acfixer69]

bet thread dies with no pics

[Halfbaked]

Ac I just looked back at the posts and I think we hijacked the post. We were on topic, well mostly. Xecros hit us some pics and we will shut up. I bet Xecros thinks what have I gotten myself into.

[acfixer69]

He did step in shit. He posted his resume to tell us how smart he is and stupid we are for questioning his ability while making stupid assumptions.
I posted for entertainment only, the guy is a lab elec 101. No pics of this elusive 110 panel I don't happen

Thanks for the enteraiment

[Halfbaked]

Xecros hit us with some pics Im tired of arguing.

[F6Hawk]

Sorry to stir up the muck, fellas. I always thought the US was a split-phase (or single phase) system to all residential areas where each phase is always 180° out from the other. I've never seen a breaker box wired any other way. Edison developed the 3-wire distribution system for DC, but later it was converted to AC, and remains today.

One of the beauties of our system is that the neutral tap becomes, by it's very nature, a load-balancer.

[Halfbaked]

F6 you are not stirring up the muck. AC and myself were laying out options on how to help they guy and trying to figure out what we were looking at and where to start. I call it devils advocate. I think Ac and I are/were on the same page. AC chime in if I am wrong.

[Xecros]

I have pictures, but their too large, gotta get to work...when I get to work, i'll resize them and upload them

[Xecros]

All righty then.

Look guys, I was raised/taught, to never let someone tell you different, if you think your right, but, if you've been proven wrong, be man enough to admit it.

It would appear, that I was wrong.

[Halfbaked]

Xecros Good job. I am happy for you. Its a win for you.

[Xecros]

Xecros Good job. I am happy for you. Its a win for you.

But I still want the amp/volt meter on my voltage controller!

[Prairiepiss]

I see 3 220v cb's and 2 mains leads? That means you have 3 220v appliances.

Whoever wired the top left one should be shot. White is a neutral not a hot.

[Halfbaked]

Xecros I could be off 100%. With your statement you still want a meter on controller, I would think that you knew you had 220 but really wanted a meter and thought you could not have a meter if you had 220 because there are 2 legs on 220 or the meter is more important than the speed of your run. Am I anywhere close on this?

[Xecros]

I believe you when you say, I have 220 volts in my fusebox (2 110 mains, 180 degrees out of phase)

So here's the deal. I was not lying when I said I took a multimeter to the outlets that the fusebox says the double CB's are wired for. (Except the AC, that's direct wired.)

One double CB says its for my stove and microwave. So I pulled out my stove from the wall, unplugged the stove, stuck my leads in the socket, 110V!

The other double CB says its for my garbage disposal and dishwasher. The outlet for that is under my sink. I stick my leads in both sockets, 110V!

So I pulled the panel off my fuse box, and measured the voltage coming off the CB's. 220V!! WTF!? Where's my other 110V at my sockets!

Then I got an idea, maybe the electrician got lazy. So I measured the voltage across the outlet designated for my stove, and an outlet I found in my cupboard for my microwave, 220V!!

Then I measured the voltage across the one outlet under my sink, and the nearest outlet to it, 220V!

It would seem the electrician ran one cable from each double CB, and split the leads between 2 outlets for each double CB.

Now it all makes sense! Now I've got some fancy wiring to do, to wire up my element with 220V! That should prove interesting

[corene1]

I just have to say that this thread has really made me appreciate my propane and natural gas. I didn't understand a word that was said but it was really good reading.

[acfixer69]

The double 20 amp CBs are sharing a common ground. Not unsafe in itself but should have individual trip capabilities. If I lived there as a renter I would be concerned that the inspection at the local level was payed off to look the other way. As PP mentioned the ac unit has a blk/wht not blk/ red as would be the norm, a descent sparky would at least rap red tape around the wht lead at the connection. If you screw around with the apartment wiring and fire happens its your ass even if it happens in the next door apt. Insurance comp are ruthless. Good luck

AC

[Xecros]

Xecros I could be off 100%. With your statement you still want a meter on controller, I would think that you knew you had 220 but really wanted a meter and thought you could not have a meter if you had 220 because there are 2 legs on 220 or the meter is more important than the speed of your run. Am I anywhere close on this?

The purpose of me starting this thread, was really, to get mulekicker's attention so that I could get his plans for his controller so I can build one myself(Not allowed to initiate a PM yet because i'm newly registered ). It morphed into defending the fact, that I don't have 220V outlets. I made mention that I wanted an amp meter for my controller so I could measure the wattage at any given time during my distilling process and was politely told I didn't need one.

With what I want to do, and eventually achieve, and my own personal preference, I do want/need one.

Whether or not I wire up my element with 110 or 220, I can and will have an amp meter.

[Xecros]

I just have to say that this thread has really made me appreciate my propane and natural gas. I didn't understand a word that was said but it was really good reading.

To each his own. I researched the pro's and con's for gas heat and electric heat for the distillation process, and after days of research, I decided electric heat was my best choice.

[Xecros]

The double 20 amp CBs are sharing a common ground. Not unsafe in itself but should have individual trip capabilities. If I lived there as a renter I would be concerned that the inspection at the local level was payed off to look the other way. As PP mentioned the ac unit has a blk/wht not blk/ red as would be the norm, a descent sparky would at least rap red tape around the wht lead at the connection. If you screw around with the apartment wiring and fire happens its your ass even if it happens in the next door apt. Insurance comp are ruthless. Good luck

AC

I'm convinced that the inspection at the local level, either didn't happen, or was paid to look the other way...Given what I've seen of my wiring thus far anyways.

As to the fancy wiring I was referring to, this is my plan.

Buy 2 heavy gauge extension cords, and a female plug. Chop off the female ends of the extension cords and wire both extension cords into the female plug. plug one extension cord into the outlet under my sink, and plug the other extension cord into the outlet closest to it. Yes, I will be taking extra special care as to how the 110 leads get wired in. I have absolutely no worries that I'll do something wrong and burn the apartment building down.

[F6Hawk]

It would appear, that I was wrong.

Well of course you were wrong. Because the only alternative is that I was wrong, and we know that isn't possible.

Just messing man. In this case, it's good news that you are wrong, cuz now you can step up to a 220v setup.

It may be obvious to some, but not to others, so hope this clears it up. The two large wires coming in at the top are each 110v when measured against ground. If you touch the leads of a voltmeter to both wires, the drop across them is doubled, or 220v. See the panel below. When you plug in a CB, it attaches to one of the mains. Because of the way the panel is built, the next CB down pulls from the opposite bar, which is 180° out of phase with the first bar. So the output of EACH CB to ground is 110v, but the output across BOTH CB is 220v. (DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME!!) Short a wire across CB 1 & 5, nothing happens. Do the same thing between CB 1& 3, and several things happen all at once. The wire becomes hot. The insulation decides it no longer wants to be in the neighborhood. Lights flash before your eyes as copper changes states between solid, liquid, and vapor. You realize the wire is hot because you start to feel pain in your fingers a microsecond after you flinch from the lights. You scream like a little girl, which adds to the ZZZZAAAAPPPP noise filling the air around you, causing your panic to not just triple, but quadruple. You attempt to move your hand away at the speed of light, but it is slowed by the impact with your face. All comes to a crawl as a sheepish look comes across your face, and you decide that the black scorch marks on the screws are actually kind of artistic. So you call yourself an artist, close up the panel, and live with what was working before.

Oh, and don't forget to wipe before you try to go to sleep...

[F6Hawk]

As to the fancy wiring I was referring to, this is my plan.

Buy 2 heavy gauge extension cords, and a female plug. Chop off the female ends of the extension cords and wire both extension cords into the female plug. plug one extension cord into the outlet under my sink, and plug the other extension cord into the outlet closest to it. Yes, I will be taking extra special care as to how the 110 leads get wired in. I have absolutely no worries that I'll do something wrong and burn the apartment building down.

Gotta advise against this. Uh-uh. Buy ONE cord, 3-wire. Cut off the male end, put one wire on CB1 output, the other wire on CB3 output (two adjacent CBs, IOW), and attach the green wire to the ground bus bar.

[WIski]

This whole thread should be deleted. It is so chuck full of BS and miss information it's only inevitable that all unknowing readers will be completly confused or worse. Someone will get hurt.

My opinion only.........

[rad14701]

The concept of creating 220V from two 110V circuits is not something that we would necessarily condone here but what people do behind closed doors is all on them... Can it be done...??? Yes...!!! Should anyone not well versed in electricity be attempting this...??? No...!!! Most people can survive a 110V jolt but few survive a hit from 220V, and if they do they'll suffer dearly... Giving advice on how to go about attempting this is beyond the scope of these forums... I've done it and it works but I'm not commenting on When, Where, Why, or How...

Let's all remember that we make every effort to promote safety here in the HD forums and we also don't condone any illegal activities other than our participation in a hobby that is deemed illegal in most countries for the wrong reasons... Simply because we disagree with the distilled spirits laws doesn't mean we should be scoffing at every law on the books or otherwise endangering the health and safety of ourselves and others...

[Xecros]

Who said anything about distilling spirits? I never once said I was distilling spirits.... I was very careful about that. You never know who is watching, and listening, these days.

But last night, as I was trying to go to sleep, I thought of a much better, and safer way to recombine my 220V from my 2 110 outlets. I have 220V now!! yea!! When I'm finished, and if I think it looks at least half way decent, i'll take pictures and share.

[Xecros]

Gotta advise against this. Uh-uh. Buy ONE cord, 3-wire. Cut off the male end, put one wire on CB1 output, the other wire on CB3 output (two adjacent CBs, IOW), and attach the green wire to the ground bus bar.

Uuuuhhhh, no. I don't want to have to deal with removing my fusebox panel, everytime I want to do a run. I did play with the idea of doing that, and finding some way of running the cable outside my fusebox in a semi-permanent way that would allow for my fusebox panel to be reattached permanently, but there's simply no room, no way, that I can do that.

[Halfbaked]

You have a dp 40 and a 2 dp 20s. Bumping into a breaker box every time you distill might not be ideal. I would guess and say a dp 40 and a dp 20 is air cond inside and outside unit. With you having gas I could be wrong. If you want to plug into the wall and it sounds like do you should build your 110 box and plug it in and use it. If you want speed maybe put a 2nd 110 elements in without a controller and turn one off when likkker comes out. If you do that be sure that it is on a diff breaker than the one with the controller. Use a light or radio to find different breaker by turning breakers off to turn off and on lights or radios.

[Xecros]

can't install a 2nd element. my boiler is of a milk can design, Mile-Hi, design actually. it has exactly, one inlet for a single element. If I wanted to get froggy, I suppose I could drill a 2nd hole into the can, weld a fitting on it, and voila, I now have room for 2 elements. But that's too much work, and besides, I don't' have access to a welder right now. (Yes, I know how to weld to!)

I'll stick with my plan to wire my own 220V outlet from my 2 110V outlets. I mean, both 110V outlets are coming from 1 dp 20. The electrician just split the mains between two outlets. I'll simply be putting it back together.

[Prairiepiss]

I have to say some things here.

First using 2 110 outlets to get 220. Is or can be dangerous. And should not be done.

And a 220v 20 amp cb can't handle a 220v 6000w element. That's over 27 amps. Actually a 6000w would be over the recommendations for a 30 cb. And no the answer is not put a larger breaker in. Not to mention the plug ins you are planning to use are more then likely only rated at 15amp.

Not sound like am ass. But someone talking about using two 110v outlets to het 220v. That didn't even know hr had 220v at his breaker box. Is very scary to me.

I work with electricity all day long. Not just using it. My job is to Chase sparks. So I have a good understanding of electricity. And I would never do what you are proposing. Just saying I think its dumb. Take that as you wish.