sugar wash recipe needs input

[Absintheur]

Hello All,
I am about to embark on my maiden mash concoction. I have a recipe worked out and I would like your input. Here goes:

For one five liter mash:

Five liters of water-furiously boiled. (Our City water is hard as a rock-go through about a bottle of dish detergent a week.....)

The pulp from a a few fresh tomatoes from the garden.

1.15 kg white table sugar

1 tsp of fermex

distillers yeast 3/10ths of a teaspoon

lemon juice to adjust ph to 4-4.5

The process if thus:

1. Sterilize my fermenter(in this case a 6 liter stock pot), stirring paddle, and thermometer.
2. Bring water to a furious boil, at sugar until dissolved, then tomato pulp.
3. Test ph, adjust to 4-4.5 ideally.
4. Plunge the boiling vessel into an ice bath to cool it below 26 degrees C.
5. Pitch yeast after it has been hydrated in 95F water-per recommendations of the manufacturer.
6. Stir in fermax
7. Give a vigorous stirring to aerate.
8. Cover lid and set up co2 release.
9. Allow to ferment until 22% abv is reached-keeping temperature constant.
10. Check the SG every few days.

Did I miss anything?

Thanks for your input in advance!
Absintheur

[Prairiepiss]

Looks like you posted this question twice?
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p7101104

Why such a mal ferment? What kind of still do you have? This your sacrificial alcohol cleaning run?

[Absintheur]

Mal ferment?

It is a sectional chemistry glass still. 1l pot, graham coiled condenser?
Sacrificial alcohol run?

I was aiming for a neutral grain alcohol for use for macerating herbs in later. This is a good recipe for that?

THanks for your response....
Absintheur

[Prairiepiss]

Would be fine. But don't know how well you gona be able to make cuts on that ittle still.

[Absintheur]

It isn't one of the glamorous brass tills, but I also use it for essential oils from herbs, so borosicilate made the most sense.
thanks for the response

[rad14701]

So many things wrong with your "recipe"...

Allow to ferment until 22% abv

You obviously haven't read about the perils of high gravity washes and how they impart off tastes and smells...

Five liters of water-furiously boiled.

Boiling won't soften the water, it'll only remove the much needed oxygen from it...

lemon juice to adjust ph to 4-4.5

The optimal pH for fermentation is 4.2 - 5.2, with higher being better than lower... The pH will drop throughout the ferment so starting higher than 5.2 is never a problem unless you go over 8...

I'll stop there rather than continue... You need to stop, do what we consider mandatory research, focus on using recipes from the Tried and True Recipe forum, and forget about coming up with your own recipe until such time that you know the Why's behind the What's and How's... You're not ready to do much of anything but read at this point... Perhaps not the answer you wanted to hear, but the answer you need to hear...

This site has everything you need to know so go forth and learn... You'll be glad you did because if you don't you're destined to have repeated failures...

[Xecros]

According to my research, Yeast can't tolerate high ethanol washes greater than...say....14%? Yeast just can't live in a high ethanol environment, unless, you use yeast specifically engineered to tolerate such high ethanol washes. (Turbo Yeast, to be specific, there are other non-turbo yeasts that are tolerant to high ethanol levels as well)

The problem with turbo yeasts is that they release higher concentrations of fusels, which primarily accounts for your off tastes, even in your hearts cut. Carbon filtering is mandatory when using turbo-yeast. But, after filtering, your product will be/should be, at least as good as store bought stuff, if not better.

Now, if you are using regular old yeast, and you manage to get your wash up to 22%, please please please, send me a pm with what yeast you used and how long it took.

[Xecros]

Five liters of water-furiously boiled.

Boiling won't soften the water, it'll only remove the much needed oxygen from it...

But it will remove chlorine. Depending on his chlorine levels, it could adversely affect his fermentation

[Prairiepiss]

According to my research, Yeast can't tolerate high ethanol washes greater than...say....14%? Yeast just can't live in a high ethanol environment, unless, you use yeast specifically engineered to tolerate such high ethanol washes. (Turbo Yeast, to be specific)

The problem with turbo yeasts is that they release higher concentrations of fusels, which primarily accounts for your off tastes, even in your hearts cut. Carbon filtering is mandatory when using turbo-yeast. But, after filtering, your product will be/should be, at least as good as store bought stuff, if not better.

Now, if you are using regular old yeast, and you manage to get your wash up to 22%, please please please, send me a pm with what yeast you used and how long it took.

The yeast in turbo yeast packages isn't some genetic mutated supper yeast. It's just a yeast. All the crap they add to the package that makes it work the way it does. It's like giving the yeast crack. They work their assessment off doing a half assed job. Then crash. Would be the same as giving some assembly line workers crack. Production would be up. But quality is shit.

You have seriously been brain washed by the turbo thing. Those snake oil guys have you wrapped around their fingers. Bad.


As far as the op. I missed the high gravity thing. I was more concerned with the fact that 5 lt of a plain sugar wash. Isn't gona give you much of a good product. That a plain sugar wash was intended for. And without the proper still. Even less.

Best thing for you to do is find the Birdwatchers recipe. In the tried and true recipe section. And follow it. Just cut the amounts down to fit your bill. Still not sure how it will work with your ittle still. Some more research would help you out a lot.

[Xecros]

And how exactly, do you know what's in a package of turbo yeast?

while I can't know for sure what's in a package of turbo-yeast, I'm certainly not going to take your word for it unless you can show proof that you were directly involved in the creation of a turbo-yeast product or you can point me to an impartial website that dissected a package of turbo-yeast.

According to the research I've done, i can tell you with 100% certainty that It contains a strain of yeast that is tolerant to high ethanol content which allows the conversion of sugar to ethanol beyond a 14% wash. It also contains yeast nutrient and PH balancing. (Beyond that, I don't know. it's not like the package comes with an ingredients list.)

[Prairiepiss]

And that is what it says on the package. That the manufacture wants you to think. So they can sell you a expensive product. That isn't needed. Because you can do the same thing with a $1 packet of yeast. And less then a $1 worth of nutrients. And you will get the same crap in the end for less the $2. Where turbos go from $9 to $30 a package. Not including the carbon needed to filter it so you can drink it.

But hey I'm sure you have done the proper research on that. And already new that.

[Xecros]

And that is what it says on the package. That the manufacture wants you to think. So they can sell you a expensive product. That isn't needed. Because you can do the same thing with a $1 packet of yeast. And less then a $1 worth of nutrients. And you will get the same crap in the end for less the $2. Where turbos go from $9 to $30 a package. Not including the carbon needed to filter it so you can drink it.

But hey I'm sure you have done the proper research on that. And already new that.

I can get a 19% wash in 5 days using what yeast?

[Prairiepiss]

Do some research on yeast other then turbo. And you mite figure it out.

I could do two 14% washes in 3 days with bakers yeast. And get way more and better product then your one batch of 19% turbo. Hell two 10% washes would be even better. And still have more.

[Prairiepiss]

What kind of still are you running that 19% wash through?

[Xecros]

Do some research on yeast other then turbo. And you mite figure it out.

I could do two 14% washes in 3 days with bakers yeast. And get way more and better product then your one batch of 19% turbo. Hell two 10% washes would be even better. And still have more.

Yea, so can I. I've done it. The problem is, 14% is where it tops out, for most yeast. the problem with distilling 10% washes, or even 14% washes is I just don't want to devote the time.

I don't want to spend 8+ hours distilling 12 gallons of wash to get 1~ gallon of product(after cuts), when I can spend 4+ hours distilling 6 gallons and get the same amount. I of course have to filter it afterwords, but it's a small price to pay, to save me 4+ hours of babysitting my still.

[Xecros]

What kind of still are you running that 19% wash through?

I was using a reflux still I purchased from Pure Spirits. Worked out damn nice to, it was producing 94% pure product, but, it got lost in my latest move, so, I'm building my own.

I've decided to build a reflux still with an offset head. just about all my parts are here, and I've begun construction. Soldering the copper is proving out to be fun! I expect it will be up and operational by this weekend, provided my last 2 parts arrive by Friday, and I expect they will.

[Prairiepiss]

If you ferment 40 gal of 10%. Do 4 10 gal stripping runs at 2 hours each. And one spirit run at 10 hours. That's 18 hours to get 4 gal of good drink.

If you do 2 single runs of 10 gals of 19% at 10 hours. That's 3.8 gal in 20 hours. Plus the time it takes to carbon filter it.

Just saying. Greed and laziness doesn't fit this hobby. Unless you don't care and just want to get drunk. Or sell. Then its not a hobby. And doesn't fit with this forum.

[Prairiepiss]

Or build a better still. And do 4 10gal strips at 2 hours and one spirit run at 3 hours. And get 4 gal in 11 hours.

Edited to add.
Real world took me 13 hours. But only tried it one time all in one day. And now that I know what to expect. I could get it done in 11 hours. Easy.

[rad14701]

Xecros, you're fighting a losing battle...

This isn't rocket science... I have on more than one occasion accidentally attained ~19% with bakers yeast in well under 72 hours, and can attain 14% in as little as 36 hours using Fleischmann's bakers yeast... That doesn't mean I intend to constantly do so, however... If it takes carbon filtering, or carbon in the wash itself like some turbos do, then you're pissing away good money for bad spirits... I just don't think it's registering in the gray matter that there are easier ways to get decent product with less effort... Avoid the greed factor and you won't have to work so hard... Geez, you'd think you were a turbo yeast salesman by the way you ignore the facts and results from real world practical experience by multiple members of these forums...

Add up the cost of turbo yeast, clearing agents, activated carbon, and the extra time and and effort and tell us that turbo yeasts are really worthwhile... They are intended to bring brew shops added income because when customers have bad results they are then sold the additional products to help convince neophytes that they can get decent spirits if they spend more... You can get better results with bakers yeast and either tomato paste or breakfast cereal... Members here know that and it seems that you are the only person in denial... You just keep arguing for the sake of arguing because you can't admit that you're wrong... You apparently haven't tried anything else so you don't have anything to compare your squandered efforts against... We don't need to provide you with any proof, you need to prove it to yourself...

[Xecros]

If you ferment 40 gal of 10%. Do 4 10 gal stripping runs at 2 hours each. And one spirit run at 10 hours. That's 18 hours to get 4 gal of good drink.

If you do 2 single runs of 10 gals of 19% at 10 hours. That's 3.8 gal in 20 hours. Plus the time it takes to carbon filter it.

Just saying. Greed and laziness doesn't fit this hobby. Unless you don't care and just want to get drunk. Or sell. Then its not a hobby. And doesn't fit with this forum.

Who said anything about greed or selling it? I certainly didn't. I never once said I was selling my product, I never even hinted at it. I have in fact, gone on record with this forum, as saying that I do not sell it, and that it's strictly for personal use.

Oops, sorry, forgot to be a bit more detailed in my last comment. I can distill 6 gallons of 19%, down to 1 gallon of 94%...diluted down to a more appropriate drink, I will have just over 2 gallons of drinkable product from 6 gallons of wash.

Does that 2 hours of stripping include the heatup time?

[Xecros]

Xecros, you're fighting a losing battle...

This isn't rocket science... I have on more than one occasion accidentally attained ~19% with bakers yeast in well under 72 hours, and can attain 14% in as little as 36 hours using Fleischmann's bakers yeast... That doesn't mean I intend to constantly do so, however... If it takes carbon filtering, or carbon in the wash itself like some turbos do, then you're pissing away good money for bad spirits... I just don't think it's registering in the gray matter that there are easier ways to get decent product with less effort... Avoid the greed factor and you won't have to work so hard... Geez, you'd think you were a turbo yeast salesman by the way you ignore the facts and results from real world practical experience by multiple members of these forums...

Add up the cost of turbo yeast, clearing agents, activated carbon, and the extra time and and effort and tell us that turbo yeasts are really worthwhile... They are intended to bring brew shops added income because when customers have bad results they are then sold the additional products to help convince neophytes that they can get decent spirits if they spend more... You can get better results with bakers yeast and either tomato paste or breakfast cereal... Members here know that and it seems that you are the only person in denial... You just keep arguing for the sake of arguing because you can't admit that you're wrong... You apparently haven't tried anything else so you don't have anything to compare your squandered efforts against... We don't need to provide you with any proof, you need to prove it to yourself...

Your all assuming that I've been pushing turbo yeast has being as good as your methods. I haven't. I've only been stating, what I do, and what my experience has been. I haven't once said, that turbo, is better, or as good, as your method.

To each his own.....a lesson all people should learn and abide by. You think your way is better, and that's great. I'm not saying that it is, or that it isn't. I'm just saying what I like to do, and what works for me.

[Prairiepiss]

If you ferment 40 gal of 10%. Do 4 10 gal stripping runs at 2 hours each. And one spirit run at 10 hours. That's 18 hours to get 4 gal of good drink.

If you do 2 single runs of 10 gals of 19% at 10 hours. That's 3.8 gal in 20 hours. Plus the time it takes to carbon filter it.

Just saying. Greed and laziness doesn't fit this hobby. Unless you don't care and just want to get drunk. Or sell. Then its not a hobby. And doesn't fit with this forum.

Who said anything about greed or selling it? I certainly didn't. I never once said I was selling my product, I never even hinted at it. I have in fact, gone on record with this forum, as saying that I do not sell it, and that it's strictly for personal use.

Oops, sorry, forgot to be a bit more detailed in my last comment. I can distill 6 gallons of 19%, down to 1 gallon of 94%...diluted down to a more appropriate drink, I will have just over 2 gallons of drinkable product from 6 gallons of wash.

Does that 2 hours of stripping include the heatup time?

Yes in my case the 2 hours is from empty still to empty still. So fill run and drained.

1 gal of 94% from a 6 gal 19% wash. That's heads hearts and tales. You aren't even making cuts? I bet its some yummy stuff. I know from experience. Even with carbon filtering. And diluting to 45% That has to be some nasty stuff.

And my statement about greed and selling was a blanket statement. Saying they aren't fit for this hobby. But your statements. Like the above 1 gal of 94% from a 6 gal 19% wash. Has greed written all over it. And the fact that you want to make as much alcohol in the least amount of time. Is greed in my book. Yes we all want to do it faster. But there are good ways and bad ways. To improve speed. Some are after quality and some are after quantity. Generally the ones that do it the bad ways. Greed is the factor. So if the shoe fits?

[Xecros]

If you ferment 40 gal of 10%. Do 4 10 gal stripping runs at 2 hours each. And one spirit run at 10 hours. That's 18 hours to get 4 gal of good drink.

If you do 2 single runs of 10 gals of 19% at 10 hours. That's 3.8 gal in 20 hours. Plus the time it takes to carbon filter it.

Just saying. Greed and laziness doesn't fit this hobby. Unless you don't care and just want to get drunk. Or sell. Then its not a hobby. And doesn't fit with this forum.

Who said anything about greed or selling it? I certainly didn't. I never once said I was selling my product, I never even hinted at it. I have in fact, gone on record with this forum, as saying that I do not sell it, and that it's strictly for personal use.

Oops, sorry, forgot to be a bit more detailed in my last comment. I can distill 6 gallons of 19%, down to 1 gallon of 94%...diluted down to a more appropriate drink, I will have just over 2 gallons of drinkable product from 6 gallons of wash.

Does that 2 hours of stripping include the heatup time?

Yes in my case the 2 hours is from empty still to empty still. So fill run and drained.

1 gal of 94% from a 6 gal 19% wash. That's heads hearts and tales. You aren't even making cuts? I bet its some yummy stuff. I know from experience. Even with carbon filtering. And diluting to 45% That has to be some nasty stuff.

And my statement about greed and selling was a blanket statement. Saying they aren't fit for this hobby. But your statements. Like the above 1 gal of 94% from a 6 gal 19% wash. Has greed written all over it. And the fact that you want to make as much alcohol in the least amount of time. Is greed in my book. Yes we all want to do it faster. But there are good ways and bad ways. To improve speed. Some are after quality and some are after quantity. Generally the ones that do it the bad ways. Greed is the factor. So if the shoe fits?

Assuming things yet again.... *sigh*

Fine, I'll get more detailed.

6 gallons of wash at 19% = 1.14 gallons of 94% alcohol that can potentially be distilled

After distillation, after cuts, I'm left with about .8 gallons of 94% alcohol

Diluting .8 gallons down to 40% alcohol(the average proof of vodka), I have just about 2 gallons of drink (1.88 gallons to be precise).

[Prairiepiss]

Well most of us would get 1.14 gal of diluted drinking alcohol from a 6 gal 19% wash. So yes you are still keeping way more heads and tails then I would. And many others around here.

Actually it would be more like 1 gal for me. But then again I wouldn't ever make a 19% wash for stillin. I don't like the difference between a 8% and a 12% wash.

You are right. We all have our ways of doing things. And my way makes a much better product. From my experience. And to me time means nothing. Only thing that means anything. Is the product that comes out.

Yes I have done only as high as 16% with a good wine yeast. I've done 14%, 12%, 10%, and 8%. And the product I get from an 8% sugar wash. Is far superior then anything over 10%. I've just improved my stillin gear and process to make up for time to make it.

But even if you have to make a 19% wash. With a little research. The proper ingredients. And a better yeast. I know you could improve it over that turbo crap.

[Xecros]

Well most of us would get 1.14 gal of diluted drinking alcohol from a 6 gal 19% wash. So yes you are still keeping way more heads and tails then I would. And many others around here.

Actually it would be more like 1 gal for me. But then again I wouldn't ever make a 19% wash for stillin. I don't like the difference between a 8% and a 12% wash.

You are right. We all have our ways of doing things. And my way makes a much better product. From my experience. And to me time means nothing. Only thing that means anything. Is the product that comes out.

Yes I have done only as high as 16% with a good wine yeast. I've done 14%, 12%, 10%, and 8%. And the product I get from an 8% sugar wash. Is far superior then anything over 10%. I've just improved my stillin gear and process to make up for time to make it.

But even if you have to make a 19% wash. With a little research. The proper ingredients. And a better yeast. I know you could improve it over that turbo crap.

I'm not entirely sure you followed me.

1.14 gallons of 94% is everything, heads, tails, all of it. This is what I consider, my potential volume after distillation.

I then went on to say, after distillation, and after cuts, I get about .8 gallons of product. That's a 30% loss of product after distillation and cuts.

[Prairiepiss]

No you didn't understand me.

Diluting .8 gallons down to 40% alcohol(the average proof of vodka), I have just about 2 gallons of drink (1.88 gallons to be precise).

You said you have just about 2 gallons of diluted drink.

I said I would have 1 gallon of diluted drink.

Well most of us would get 1.14 gal of diluted drinking alcohol from a 6 gal 19% wash.

[Xecros]

Ahhhh, we're good then....

[Tanglefoot]

Hi there Absinthuer!
I just signed on here to tell you what I have found. I don't know why there are so many haters of turbo yeast. A lot of what other posters are saying here I find to be quite untrue in regards to sugar concentrations and off flavors from turbo. I have been on here and other sites trying to find a reasonable substitute for turbo. If any of you other posters can tell me how to get over 18% abv whith your yeast and nutrient recipes I would be very glad to hear from you!!
Any way back to you Abby, I mix my sugar mash to almost twice what folks on here.

edited by moderator as size of wash and boiler are over the limit allowed on this site! (Bushman)

I have had shine form all across this country that friends and family bring back to compare to mine. Mine taste way better than most, some are almost as good as mine, haven't had one yet that I or any of my friends would call "better".

Don't be discouraged bud! Good luck!!

[Prairiepiss]

You have picked a really bad handle to use in the distilling community. Mainly because Uncle Jesse is a well respected home distiller. By many on this forum and most all other forums. Not to mention he is the founder of this forum.

And if the rest of your posts will be like this first one. That name should not be associated with them. I would suggest getting with Husker or Tater and see about changing it. Just saying.

And you mite step over to the welcome center and give us a proper intro.

And have a read through of the rules we live by.

[Truckinbutch]

+1 ! That's ALL good advice that Mr Piss just gave you .