2" column Nixon Stone puking

[RickRay]

I have a 2" column with a nixon stone offset head. 54" packed column with 6mm Rasching rings with about 6 " of copper mesh. Problem is when I put more than about 750 watts to it it pukes. I'm running leftovers at 53% alcohol to produce nuetral. Are columns more likely to puke with higher alcohol in the boiler? After i'm done with this run I'm also going to check the flowrate of my reflux valve.

[LWTCS]

well at 53% it will be easier to get more vapor into suspension. But at only 750 watts I'd say your packing density is the cause.

[RickRay]

after i'm done with foreshots, i can take an 18" section out. I may try that reequalize and go from there.

[WERAT]

750 watts???? How big is your boiler? My wife has a hair dryer more than 750 watts and it wont bring a boil to anything.

How much are you putting in your boiler? Full or leaving head space?

[RickRay]

15.5 gallon keg boiler, 5500 watt heating element, heat to boil in about 30 minutes. this run is 9 gallons of 53%. this is my first reflux run, I've ran this still many times in pot still mode, just never in reflux.

[RickRay]

It actually settled down a bit after fores came off, after heads I'll try pushing just a little faster with a faster take off.

[RickRay]

i'm running about 10:1 reflux to takeoff right now. think I'll back off reflux slightly and try it out.

[RickRay]

pretty sure my reflux valve and tube leading back into the column doesn't have enough flow and is flooding the offset head. When I opened up take-off valve wide open drew off 400 mL in a solid stream. That should have been in the column through the reflux valve.

[Richard7]

well at 53% it will be easier to get more vapor into suspension. But at only 750 watts I'd say your packing density is the cause.

I'm not there to see and neither is Larry, but guessing from the post this is what I would check first. If your packing has your column flooded your return tube could not drain well.

[rad14701]

Realistically, I never run more than 4:1 and usually less... Don't fixate on the reflux ratio, concentrate on the %ABV/proof... And, for the sake of safety, keep the boiler charge at or below 40% ABV...

[RickRay]

I've backed off the reflux and its settled down at 15 mL per minute. Don't know how the rasching rings could get packed too much. I wondered about running 53% but Ian smiley's book was running 70%. I'll be running 40% or under from now on.

[RickRay]

btw, the alcoholmeter is registering 95%, needless to say I'm happy. Waiting for the hearts to set in.

[Prairiepiss]

15.5 gallon keg boiler, 5500 watt heating element, heat to boil in about 30 minutes. this run is 9 gallons of 53%. this is my first reflux run, I've ran this still many times in pot still mode, just never in reflux.

9 gallons of 53% in an electric keg boiler. How many gallons does it take to cover your element? Mines pretty low in the keg. And I still need 5 gallons to cover the element safely. 9 gallons at 53% would leave 4 gal or less in the boiler after the run. And that would be taking off 95%. If you are taking off less then that you definitely won't have enough to keep the element covered.

If you would have diluted to 40% or under. And had almost 12 gallons. And that would have been a safe amount to run. And a safe ABV to run.

How do you know you are only running 750w? A 9 gallon boiler charge at 750w wouldn't even run a packed Nixon stone proper. Your packing has to be way to tight. That still should run best around 2000w or more.

[RickRay]

built a controller and measured voltage and amps to get watts. I agree, 750 shouldn't be overloading it. I've got 28" of 6mm rasching rings, can't figure out how they could become too packed. I've pulled off foreshots and heads, going to shut down for tonight and add water tommorrow to make sure i don't uncover my element. I put the element as low as it could go, and I think it would be ok with 4 gallons but too close.

[Prairiepiss]

52% wouldn't need as much heat to boil. But still 750 is really low.

You measured the voltage and amps. What were they?

[RickRay]

It was 101.7 volts and 9.92 amps for 1009 watts. I'm wondering if it was wrong to measure the volts where I did, across the leg with the triac in it. If I took 9.92 times 240 you get 2380, that would make sense in more ways than one, then at the higher levels I could see why it would be flooding. At higher levels I got up to 201.4 volts didn't measure any higher for my chart. It's close to 240 when wide open. Not sure, need someone smarter than me too let me know.

[Lester]

It was 101.7 volts and 9.92 amps for 1009 watts. I'm wondering if it was wrong to measure the volts where I did, across the leg with the triac in it. If I took 9.92 times 240 you get 2380, that would make sense in more ways than one, then at the higher levels I could see why it would be flooding. At higher levels I got up to 201.4 volts didn't measure any higher for my chart. It's close to 240 when wide open. Not sure, need someone smarter than me too let me know.

It seems the error is in your electrical measuring instruments because these are usually made for sine waves only and will not measure other waveforms correctly like a chopped sine wave as what a light dimmer's waveform looks like.

You will need "True-RMS" meters for the voltage and current. Better yet, get a true RMS power meter and get your readings from that.

[Odin]

A 2 inch column with your kind of packing (used within normal parameters) should only flood/puke at 1,700 watts. Maybe a bit more. Reading the power definately seems to be the problem. All though puking and flooding are two seperate things. Puking can be caused by a wash that was not depleted of CO2 well enough, where flooding usually describes a situation where reflux is so much that it blocks the column.

Odin.

[DAD300]

His heatup time was 30 minutes...for me that would be almost 6,000 watts. And the HD calculators back that up...

Think about it...a keg to boil in 30 minutes!

[RickRay]

I wondered about the true RMS issue. Is that applicable to both voltage and amps or just voltage? The controller is the cats meow, I can dial in whatever I want from 5500 watts to practically 0. I know the setting that it is running the best, I'll grab some meters from work and report back what true RMS readings are. BTW, I reported wrong, the column is flooding not puking.

[LWTCS]

Yeah,,,,, your just throwing a bit to much power at your system.

[RickRay]

That's exactly what was going on, too much power. Measured with a normal voltmeter and clamp-on ammeter, anything over 101.7 volts and 9.92 amps (1009 watts) flooded the column. When I measured that same level with a True-RMS voltmeter/clamp-on ammeter, voltage was 141.2 and amps 13.1 (1850 watts). Now anything over 1800 watts I can see flooding, but the 1009 watt reading didn't make sense. I was able to make measurements and calibrate my knob position to true wattage, should help in the future. Thanks to everyone for your input, looks like you need a True-RMS voltmeter and Ammeter to get accurate wattage readings with a phase cutting controller.