Sweet feed sour mash

[firewater706]

If this has been asked or talked about, I'm sorry as I done a search and did not find answer.

As anyone tried to sour mash (I think that is the right term) a sweet feed ferment? I'm thinking about giving it a try, however if I can learn from this forum before going on my own that would be great.

Here is the ingredients I will use;
1. 13 lbs of all grain sweetfeed
2. 50 lbs of sugar
3. 4 gallons of backset
5. Dady's distillers yeast
6. 28 gallons of spring water.

Should work just fine, but not sure what to expect as far as final product.

thoughts?

[S-Cackalacky]

Go to the "Tried and True" recipe section and check out the SF recipe. It's pretty much what you're talking about. It's basically the same principle as described in another recipe found there, UJSSM (Uncle Jesse's Simple Sour Mash). Both are excellent recipes used by many people here.

You might have better luck using one of those. They're called "tried and true" for good reason.

Good luck,
S-C

[Coyote]

Backset is how you get multiple generations
without adding yeast.

I run 25% hot back set straight from the boiler to
melt my sugar and toss it in the fermentor as the last
thing I add - if you toss in 150+ degree back set you
stand a chance of killing your yeast bed, left over from
the prior runs, currently on Gen 5

Coyote

[iDrinkWash]

Backset is how you get multiple generations
without adding yeast.

I run 25% hot back set straight from the boiler to
melt my sugar and toss it in the fermentor as the last
thing I add - if you toss in 150+ degree back set you
stand a chance of killing your yeast bed, left over from
the prior runs, currently on Gen 5

Coyote

OK, I thought I understood the reason people use "backset". I thought it was mainly to conserve energy - ie. use the hot, spent wash to melt your sugar for the next run... But your first statement has me scratching head - surely there is no live yeast left in the stuff left in your boiler after a run. Is "backset" really, then, some wash that you "reserve" from putting INTO the boiler - so you have something to start your new wash with (that does have live yeast)? You are using the term to refer to both the liquid coming out of your boiler, and some liquid that still has live yeast in it...


IDrinkWash

[rad14701]

For anyone who hasn't read it, there is a good discussion about sour mash and backset on the parent site...

[firewater706]

For anyone who hasn't read it, there is a good discussion about sour mash and backset on the parent site...

going to read that now. However, I thought backset was used to add more, yet different flavor to the ferment.

[iDrinkWash]

For anyone who hasn't read it, there is a good discussion about sour mash and backset on the parent site...

Thanks. I must have missed that page. For all the information on this and the parent site - there are still some gaps. "Backset" is still one of them.

If backset is indeed what is left in the boiler after distillation - then I completely understand its use as a something to lower the pH of the next ferment (as well as a hot liquid to help dissolve the sugar). It cannot be something that allows you to "get multiple generations without adding yeast", as Coyote said, above - because there will not be any live yeast left in there. Yeast will still have to be added - or the distiller will be relying on the natural yeast on any of the fresh grain added to the second ferment.

If a small portion of the wash that has finished fermenting is reserved from being added to the still (I'll call it Foreset.... heheh) - it will have enough yeast to ferment the second batch. Is this what you guys are doing?


IDrinkWash

[Prairiepiss]

Backset is how you get multiple generations
without adding yeast.

Coyote

Sory but this statement is completely wrong. Backset is not needed for multiple generations from the same yeast/grain bed. The yeast/grain bed is how you get multiple generations without adding yeast. The backset doesn't contain any live yeast in it.

Backset is however needed to make it a sour mash. See the UJSSM recipe for an example.

But with a sweetfeed adding just sugar to the next generation. Isn't the same. You will be missing a key ingredient that makes it a sweetfeed. Molasses. So if not replacing the grains. You should add a little molasses to each generation. You don't have to. But is it really sweetfeed if you don't?

[Coyote]

Coyote wrote:Backset is how you get multiple generations
without adding yeast.

Coyote



Sory but this statement is completely wrong. Backset is not needed for multiple generations from the same yeast/grain bed. The yeast/grain bed is how you get multiple generations without adding yeast. The backset doesn't contain any live yeast in it.

Backset is however needed to make it a sour mash. See the UJSSM recipe for an example.

But with a sweetfeed adding just sugar to the next generation. Isn't the same. You will be missing a key ingredient that makes it a sweetfeed. Molasses. So if not replacing the grains. You should add a little molasses to each generation. You don't have to. But is it really sweetfeed if you don't?

Wow I just read what I wrote and that was a major brain fart.
I stand humbly corrected.
The yeast bed is where the LIVE yeast live, Backset is how I melt my sugar
to add back for the next generation, along with new sweet feed, replacing the
amount I removed.

Coyote

[Wewt]

No one has answered your question. And my self? I'm wondering the same question. Except I HAVE soured mashed sweet feed (only 1gen so far..) @ a 1/3 rate of backseat to new wash. On my first gen I don't really know if I like it as much as just a 'new' sweetfeed with zero backwash. I do age my whiskey @ 125p for one week using the microwave method on used american white oak chips..My friends like both the sour mashed sweetfeed and just the plain sweetfeed. I've heard sourmashing get's better with 3-4+ gens of backseats...I think I'll keep doing it as the results are GOOD, but I'm hoping they will be better that's all I have to say. It def takes away most of the sweetness and puts the 'sour' flavor into the whiskey there is no doubt as plain sweetfeed is damn sweet in a good way. I'd like to know if anyone else has any feed back of doing 7-8+ gens of sour mashing sweetfeed my self..let me know if you find a link someonewhere else.

[Wewt]

BTW that yeast your using(if I'm thinking what it is) is shit. Just use bread yeast..and don't push your wash past 12percent..a lot of people say 8-10 is where you should go but I'm happy w/ 12 percent washes.

[firewater706]

I ran a stripping run this weekend, and the flavor was/is outstanding, so I did not do a spirit run I bottled it up with a couple of toasted applewood chips in each jar. This should be outstanding in few weeks.

[Wewt]

I also single run my sweetfeed sour mashed or not.