Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

[Raging56]

Mini update and this is huge info for anybody having issues with this recipe. Check the PH! That was the only thing I had left that I didn't check and I finally broke down and got testing strips. I found out my well water is a acidic...after adding the citric acid...it would of made it that even worse. My wash would get to a SG of 1.04 and stall out. Now I think I know the reason (I hope)

The batch I'm currently working on I skipped the citric acid and added: calcium bicarbonate and 5.2 ph stabilizer. I got it up around the 5.0 mark. It started a little slow but its off to the races now. (One bubble every 2-3 seconds from the air locks). I hope it keeps up this pace. I will let you know where its at in a week or so.


But, if your someone like me having issues....check the PH and adjust for it if needed.

[buddahj]

I just started my first 6 gal ferment of this recipe. My starting SG was right around 1.070. Wish me luck.

[Raging56]

I just started my first 6 gal ferment of this recipe. My starting SG was right around 1.070. Wish me luck.

good luck!

I was just coming on here to give an update. Less than a week and I'm just about done (just above .99 SG) I'm going to give it a couple more days. The PH was killing me. If your having issues with this...check the PH!

[buddahj]

I just started my first 6 gal ferment of this recipe. My starting SG was right around 1.070. Wish me luck.

good luck!

I was just coming on here to give an update. Less than a week and I'm just about done (just above .99 SG) I'm going to give it a couple more days. The PH was killing me. If your having issues with this...check the PH!

I will. Thanks for the heads up.

[lampshade]

Mini update and this is huge info for anybody having issues with this recipe. Check the PH! That was the only thing I had left that I didn't check and I finally broke down and got testing strips. I found out my well water is a acidic...after adding the citric acid...it would of made it that even worse. My wash would get to a SG of 1.04 and stall out. Now I think I know the reason (I hope)

The batch I'm currently working on I skipped the citric acid and added: calcium bicarbonate and 5.2 ph stabilizer. I got it up around the 5.0 mark. It started a little slow but its off to the races now. (One bubble every 2-3 seconds from the air locks). I hope it keeps up this pace. I will let you know where its at in a week or so.


But, if your someone like me having issues....check the PH and adjust for it if needed.

Also check the water hardness/softness. I was having problems with the pH dropping precipitously in the first day or two. I think this was due to using softened water which removes lime -- according to Dnder, lime provides buffering to reduce pH drop. Also, yeast do better in hard water, which provides needed minerals. Gypsum hardens water.

[Skiipy]

I've had this wash going now for about two weeks @ 78degrees F. Still around 1.04 - 1.05 my PH was low when I started. Is it possible to bring the PH up during your fermentation process? I will be using baking soda if this can be done.

[lampshade]

I've had this wash going now for about two weeks @ 78degrees F. Still around 1.04 - 1.05 my PH was low when I started. Is it possible to bring the PH up during your fermentation process? I will be using baking soda if this can be done.

Yes, that will work. You should do some research on HD about additives that are used to raise pH (calcium carbonate, potassium carbonate, sodium carbonate, 5.2 pH stabilizer).

You should also look into why your pH is low. Wineos recipe works well for most people. But it doesn't work for everyone, especially if your water is deficient in some way. For example, water that has been softened by a water softener may be deficient in necessary trace minerals, like zinc and magnesium. Softened water also lacks lime, which minimizes (buffers against) the pH drop that naturally occurs during fermentation. So you may need to experiment with different additives (Servomyces, for example, which provides zinc) until you come across the recipe that works for your situation. Also, DAP provides nitrogen, which yeast need: Did you add enough DAP?

Our beer brewing brothers have done a lot of research and experimentation along the lines.

To the audience: Has anyone done a controlled experiment to isolate which additives produce the best fermentation for their particular situation? I'm thinking along these lines: Make a 5-gal batch of wineos. But, instead of using one 5-gal fermenting vessel, split the batch into 5 separate 1-gallon washes, each with different additives, and test for which 1-gallon wash ferments the best. But maybe, there is a better procedure.

[Skiipy]

Thanks Lampshade. Brought the PH up this morning and the yeast did eccelarate initially. didn't add the DAP at that time, but will add some more in the morning. Thanks for your respnse.

[lampshade]

Thanks Lampshade. Brought the PH up this morning and the yeast did eccelarate initially. didn't add the DAP at that time, but will add some more in the morning. Thanks for your respnse.

If the yeast are now happy, I don't think the DAP is needed. Usually DAP is needed at the beginning of the ferment, during the aerobic phase when yeast are busy multiplying.

[lampshade]

Got this DAP information from http://www.thedriftingwinemaker.com/201 ... rt-ii.html.
YAN = Yeast assimilable nitrogen. Brix is almost directly proportional to S.G.: 10 Brix = 1.040 S.G.; 15 Brix = 1.061 S.G; 20 Brix = 1.083 S.G.

Timing is a major concern when planning nitrogen supplementation of juice/must. Depending on how much nitrogen is required, I like to add approximately half at the beginning of fermentation and the remainder after approximately one-third brix decrease; this provides the yeast with a steadier nitrogen supply to carry through the end of fermentation and, if necessary, leaves room for a small addition if undesirable odor/flavor appears later in ferment.

It is not wise to add it all prior to inoculation; high YAN levels at the beginning of fermentation promotes rapid cell growth that can lead to overpopulation of yeast. This in turn depletes YAN at an abnormally high rate and leads to a lot of unhappy yeast producing undesirable odors and flavors through the duration of fermentation. On the other hand, nitrogen supplementation late in ferment is often useless; yeast can uptake nitrogen throughout their growth phase, but alcohol inhibits uptake about halfway or two-thirds through fermentation (i.e. with 8-10° brix left when starting with 22° brix). This means late supplementation of nitrogen will basically have little or no effect on fermentation kinetics or undesirable odor/flavor production; that being said, I know plenty of winemakers (I admit I have done this on rare occasions as well) that will add nitrogen down to 5° brix in the hopes of reviving a troublesome ferment.

[Skiipy]

Ok, Lampshade or any on else that can give me some input.
I made three batches of Wino's recipe but had to split them into four ferment buckets for fear of blow overs. So, I have 18 gal of wash separated into four @ 4.5 gal. each then pitched approx. 52 grams of bakers yeast (Red Star) into each.On 8/7 the SGs were as follows 1)1.084,2)1.084,3)1.082 and 4)1.086 and the temp was at 83F. On 8/13 the gravity had dropped to 1)1.058,2)1.056,3)1.052 and 4)1.059 the temp was at 74F. My PH was low so on 8/15 I brought it up to 5.2 and higher in some of the buckets. (all gravity readings are temp. corrected) Now on 8/21 and two full weeks later my gravity's are as follows 1) 1.032, 2)1.030,3)1.026, and 4)1.034 at a temp of 76F. To me this seems to be taking a long time to finish. Most all of my experience has been doing an AG mash and fly sparging, and it seems that none of my past ferments have taken this long. The recipe was originally made in three seven gal. buckets and then separated into the four. Guess I blew the Labor Day Apple Pies, and Lemon Drops!!!
I've always used a 3" pot still but now have a 3" 3' reflux that I wanted to push this recipe thru. Any input or remedies will be appreceiated.

[Skiipy]

Just something that I forgot to add. My buckets are air Locked and every time I've taken gravity readings I give a gentle stir.

[lampshade]

Just something that I forgot to add. My buckets are air Locked and every time I've taken gravity readings I give a gentle stir.

Why are you stirring your mash? I suspect you are doing it to get uniform S.G. readings. But if you are doing it to add oxygen, don't. See http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 15&t=27069

Just for grins, please measure the pH again.

[WIZz]

What sort of yield can I expect from one of these washes?

[reckless kelly]

You get what you get.
You got what you got

[Skiipy]

My wash is finally ready to run and I'll be doing that during the ball games tomorow. I,ve got three six gallon batches that finished out at 11%. I'll post my single run reflux yields when I get done.

[cabtoohell44]

Just on the yield question, have one along those lines myself. Have done three washes using this recipe and it appears that im gettin around the 3 to 3.5 litre mark of %65 aprox after first stripping run.
As pryor to this have been using (sorry in advance) turbo yeasts and getting aprox10 litres from the same 21 litre wash at about the same % i am just wanting to confirm that these amounts are typical. Wrapped with the reduction in tastes, but would be interested to know if anyone has adjusted the recipe to get in increase in output from the same wash without stuffing up the bad taste side of things. If so would be great to hear about changes and results
cheers
all

[WIZz]

I have everything I need to make this now, I figure I don't need the gypsum since our local water is hard, I will use a PH meter to check the ph.

I brought the yeast of ebay since I couldn't find it in oz, it ended up costing $36 after delivery so I would like to reuse it if thats viable, I have no experience but have done some reading on reusing beer yeast, has anyone done this with a sugar wash? I'm wondering if I need to reuse all the yeast again or do I need to split it up?

[jtate-1]

Made 2 batches of wposw and went out of town for 10 days on business. SG on one 1.073 the second 1.066. When I left they were going great. Got back no bubbling and racked the first not thinking to check the fg. After I racked I remembered to take the reading and it was only 1.040. Took a reading of the second and it's the same. So i'm guessing they stalled. I bought distilled water for these not sure if that matters. Followed recipe except add about 2# more sugar to both to get the sg up. Aerated the second batch and it started bubbling again slowly so I'm letting that one work on. So my question is am I screwed on the first since I racked it to clear or just run it, or can I add something to start things back up. My well water is terrible so that why I buy gallons. Ran my first batch of this a few weeks ago and turned out ok. Not sure why this didn't work out the same. New to this great hobby so trying figure things out. I have read through the forum just not sure about the one I racked. Thanks in advance. JT

[rad14701]

Made 2 batches of wposw and went out of town for 10 days on business. SG on one 1.073 the second 1.066. When I left they were going great. Got back no bubbling and racked the first not thinking to check the fg. After I racked I remembered to take the reading and it was only 1.040. Took a reading of the second and it's the same. So i'm guessing they stalled. I bought distilled water for these not sure if that matters. Followed recipe except add about 2# more sugar to both to get the sg up. Aerated the second batch and it started bubbling again slowly so I'm letting that one work on. So my question is am I screwed on the first since I racked it to clear or just run it, or can I add something to start things back up. My well water is terrible so that why I buy gallons. Ran my first batch of this a few weeks ago and turned out ok. Not sure why this didn't work out the same. New to this great hobby so trying figure things out. I have read through the forum just not sure about the one I racked. Thanks in advance. JT

You have too much unfermented sugar to be running that wash... Check the pH and temperature... Add a bit more nutrients (tomato paste, cereal, etc.) and yeast once the pH is in the 4.2 - 5.2 range and temperature is between 75F - 85F...

Distilled water is not the recommended choice for fermentation because virtually all of the trace elements that keep yeast happy have been removed during the distillation process... Use plain old tap water... If you can drink it, yeast can survive in it... Sunlight and Vitamin C work well for dechlorinating municipal water...

[bcproduct]

I have acidic water so I have added an additional 2tbsp of calcium carbonate to bring the ph into the 5-6 range. I am 8 days in SG 1.000 at 75 degrees. I noticed when I added the calcium carbonate at the start, it made the wash milky. It is still milky 8 days later. Will it clear over time now that it is done or will I need to add a clearing agent?

[Raging56]

I have acidic water so I have added an additional 2tbsp of calcium carbonate to bring the ph into the 5-6 range. I am 8 days in SG 1.000 at 75 degrees. I noticed when I added the calcium carbonate at the start, it made the wash milky. It is still milky 8 days later. Will it clear over time now that it is done or will I need to add a clearing agent?

I did the same thing...added calcium carbonate and it made it milky. I can't remember if it cleared just as well as not adding it...but I didn't even notice it. And it didn't effect the final product. I wouldn't sweat it.

[pounsfos]

Will be starting a batch of this hopefully next week (if birdwatchers stays on target and life doesn't get in the way)

I am very excited, I learned the brewery down the road has a tap open to the public, so you can use there water (hardened, dechlorinated, alot better) so am looking forward to some good testing and some good results

Thanks for the great recipes as usual, have converted 3 fellas off turbos just this week in my neighborhood.

[Shae]

Just on the yield question, have one along those lines myself. Have done three washes using this recipe and it appears that im gettin around the 3 to 3.5 litre mark of %65 aprox after first stripping run.
As pryor to this have been using (sorry in advance) turbo yeasts and getting aprox10 litres from the same 21 litre wash at about the same % i am just wanting to confirm that these amounts are typical. Wrapped with the reduction in tastes, but would be interested to know if anyone has adjusted the recipe to get in increase in output from the same wash without stuffing up the bad taste side of things. If so would be great to hear about changes and results
cheers
all

The yield has to do with the amount of sugar and how much it ferments. If all of it ferments, one yeast can't get more alcohol out of the same amount of sugar than another. More likely, the turbo washes are using more sugar, since the yeast has a higher alcohol tolerance.

[pounsfos]

Just on the yield question, have one along those lines myself. Have done three washes using this recipe and it appears that im gettin around the 3 to 3.5 litre mark of %65 aprox after first stripping run.
As pryor to this have been using (sorry in advance) turbo yeasts and getting aprox10 litres from the same 21 litre wash at about the same % i am just wanting to confirm that these amounts are typical. Wrapped with the reduction in tastes, but would be interested to know if anyone has adjusted the recipe to get in increase in output from the same wash without stuffing up the bad taste side of things. If so would be great to hear about changes and results
cheers
all

The yield has to do with the amount of sugar and how much it ferments. If all of it ferments, one yeast can't get more alcohol out of the same amount of sugar than another. More likely, the turbo washes are using more sugar, since the yeast has a higher alcohol tolerance.

glad to hear you are switching from turbos to something decent, we aim for quality not quantity around here, with some more sufficient study you will find you're answer, but in a nutshell, the more suger you add, the longer it will take to ferment, and the more stressed the yeast are, producing more off flavours, yeast don't like going over 14% no matter what strain, I keep my washes at 10% and will soon be experimenting with 8%,

[bcproduct]

I have acidic water so I have added an additional 2tbsp of calcium carbonate to bring the ph into the 5-6 range. I am 8 days in SG 1.000 at 75 degrees. I noticed when I added the calcium carbonate at the start, it made the wash milky. It is still milky 8 days later. Will it clear over time now that it is done or will I need to add a clearing agent?

Ok- I let it rest and racked it a couple of times and it cleared on its own. Once the yeast really stopped working and the bubbling stopped, everything settled out... Now to decide if I try for a slow high ABV run or double distill with a stripping run first??????

[pounsfos]

some here are my results

ingredients:
5kg sugar
75grams yeast
1tsp of epsom salt
3tsp DAP
mix to 28litres and go

Sg:1.06
day 2: 1.05
day 3:1.04 (ph was getting low, readjusted to ph to 5)
day 4:1.01!!!
Day 5:1.00
Day 6: 0.90 very dry ferment
It also cleared very quickly and ran it on day 6
got some very good stuff... might do this in my 200litre fermentor...

[8 Mile Hillbilly]

Started some sugar wash and sweet feed on the same day, the sweet feed is ready but the sugar wash is only down to 1040 and 5%. Both have 1118 yeast. I used 1118 due to the cooler temp I am using around 68-71F. The airlock is still bubbling at 1 to 1 1/2 second per bubble. Has been working at that rate for 2 1/2 weeks. I am getting impatient to try my first run on a 2" Boka . Guess I will give it another week and then maybe run it anyway. Start a new batch of sweet feed as this seemed to work well for me. I think the slow might be due to Ph but most likely was the 1118 yeast.

Question with ph, most test systems I can find do not test below 5 range for pools and hot tubs, where do you find test strips to read the wider ph range.

[shaemas]

Having the same problem as 8Mile. Got a batch down for 10 days and only down to 1.01(started @ 1.065). A little bit cool so could be that, but not much activity any more. Think she stalled or just slow 'cause of the temp?

[rad14701]

Here is the documentation from my last batch...

Recipe

• 5 gallons water
• 10 pounds white sugar
• 6 oz can of generic tomato paste
• 2.5 tbsp Fleischmann's dry active yeast
• 2.5 tsp Epsom Salt
• 3.5 tsp baking soda
• 2.5 tsp Peters 30-10-10
• 10 tbsp white vinegar

Process

• Inverted sugar in 5 quarts of water using white vinegar
• Mixed Epsom Salt, 30-10-10, and baking soda
• Mixed everything into the carboy
• Topped to a total of 5 gallons of water and allowed wash to cool
• Prepared a yeast starter using 1 cup wash and 2 cups warm water
• Pitched yeast, aerated, and airlocked 2013-11-09 @ 8:00pm

Comments

• Potential yield of ~12% ABV
• The airlock started bubbling immediately
• 2013-11-09 @ 08:00 pm - OG = 1.086
• 2013-11-12 @ 10:30am - SG = 1.000 (11.094% ABV)
• 2013-11-14 @ 10:30am - FG = 0.994 (11.868% ABV)