please help: yeasty tasting /smelling distillate

[trig]

hey there im new here and for the life of me cannot find an answer to this maybe im wording it wrong or its called something specific i dont know so here it goes.


just baught a turbo 500 and after doing my first brew it has come out smelling and tasting "yeasty" to use a word even after 1 carbon filtering.


more details:

bought the wash from a liquor shop that makes wash for sale it comes already filtered out and it was quite clear in the bucket with a slight yellow tinge and that yeasty smell wich i assume is about how u want it. was told do not need to add the turbo carbon and clear to it like you would with a normal home fermented wash.

the wash sat in the still for about 30 mins before i turned it on, hour or so to heat up , discarded the first 50 ml that came out, kept my water temp out at around 59-60 degrees, out of the 25 Litres of wash i got 4.15 litres of 91.5% ABV. does not have a thermometer for the condensor temperature so i dont know what that was sitting at.

collected the 4.15 litres in a demijohn and sat it over night with lid on and sealed, next day cut it down to 40% with 5.4 litres of distilled water, putting it through the carbon filter and sampling 250 mls of it just to see what it tastes like alone / with some essence.

me and my flatmates all taste and smell a distinct yeasty smell to it and taste, smelling the 9.5 litres of un-carbon filtered it smells stronger, the stuff out of the carbon filtering smells like its taken a bit of that edge of but its still quite strong, alcohol is quite smooth though apart from that, just need a way of removing this annoying yeasty smell / taste.

im going to carbon filter it probably 3 times, should i just put it back through the still ?

what might have caused this? i notice the reflux condensor smells similarily of this yeast smell but i assume thats normal as the vapours that go up there would contain this, maybe it boiled to much and some wash got through? i was watching it almost all the time it didnt seem to do this.

[frunobulax]

It sounds like they used Turbo yeast. It may not be salvageable. Just go to the tried and true recipe section and look up wineo's or birdwatchers sugar wash and make it yourself.

[trig]

im very keen to try different washes, this was just recomended by a friend to try, saves time doesnt cost much more than normal, and never have had any mention of it turning out abnormally flavoured... i thought it coming out at 91.5% would mean not much impurites ( wich is were the tastes come from? ) so if i still it again, filter again can i remove most of this taste? would rather not waste a 9.5 litre bach of 40% abv

[hitek redneck]

you gotta remember alcohol % and purity are 2 totally different things. 91.5% just means its 91.5% alcohol. The other 8.5% could be anything.

The good part is now you have tried a turbo yeast type product. You know what it taste like and can learn from there. If your not going for a specific flavor like rum or whiskey then try one of the sugar washes in the tried and true section here and see how much better your end result will be. I think you will be shocked and that's speaking from experience at doing very very close to what you just did myself.

Good luck and play safe.

HR

[trig]

i understand that 8.5% could be anything and i dont expect alot since it is my first times using the still. i figured that since its a company probably fermenting thousand litres or so at a time they will be using turbo stuff to get maximum product out quickly as possible. but since i know of people who use this and havent to my knowledge had this problem is there something i might have done to cause this?

lets just say assuming that the wash was a normal standard wash, what other things could cause this taste/smell to come through?

also if i wanted to continue using their wash what can i do to reduce this taste coming through? run a lower temp to get a purer alcohol coming through?

[skow69]

If you do much reading here you'll find that turbo yeast is held in pretty low regard, so you won't finds much discussion about "turbo carbon and clear" or how to clean it up.

I would run it again. And again if necessary. I tried carbon filtering, but I've had much better results by redistilling.

I gather you are trying to make a high test neutral. Personally, when I make a neutral, I do a stripping run, then a spirit run with cuts [which comes off the still at 95+], then a final run with a very small heads cut. The last run is primarily to remove the last of the tails, Which stay in the boiler. No need for carbon filtering. The product is odorless and tasteless. Much less trouble than fucking with carbon.

[bellybuster]

That's the point, with a normal standard wash using other than turbo yeast, you won't get these off flavours.
Also remember that not only that 8.5% can be a big mix, so can the 91.5%. You will have varying ratios of all the alcohols in there. Our meagre stills are not capable of fully fractionating the alcohols. You may even have methanol in tails. Purity and proof have little to do with each other.

[skow69]

Reread your post. If you don't cut heads or tails there isn't enough carbon on earth to make it palatable. Try the new distiller's reading lounge. Lots of good info there.

Skol

[BDF]

As others will tell you, don't use anything with the word 'turbo' on it.

Clean ferments give you clean products (assuming you can run the still without smearing). Check the tried and true section and birdwatcher's or Wineo's sugar wash, keep the alch% in your ferment below %10, and get clean near tasteless product out with no filtering.

[trig]

yep ideally thats why i got the turbo500 distiller, i would like to make clean neutral spirit that i can flavor and use with friends family, have 2 friends with this still who have made some very nice whiskeys bourbons i have tried, would like to do white rums etc too just starting out simple with the essences for flavouring


i got this still because i read and was recommended for its ease of use and the fact it doesnt really drop to much quality and dont need to worry bout tails just a short amount of heads

appreciate all the help.. i just didnt think this would turn out so yeasty when i was told people have been using this companys wash no problem so i kinda assuming its something i did to make this happen... i should of tested the wash before hand to see its %... only heard good things about this still so i have faith that its just a simple error. i read a bit about doing a stripping run. i guess u can say i have just done a stripping run since il probly end up re stilling it tomorow hahaha. so if i just put that 9.5 litres in and do the same process i should hopefully get a cleaner result out since its also been filtered a bit?

apreciate this forum alot hard to find answers to things without talking to people.

[rad14701]

You can filter that wretch until the cows come home but if you didn't make proper cuts no amount of carbon filtering will clean it up... You need to dilute what you have there to 30% - 40% ABV and redistill it making proper cuts... I think you've jumped the gun here and started out before knowing all of the theories and fundamentals... We want members to be safe and that is why we harp about doing mandatory research...

I'd also like to note that it is illegal for that liquor shop to be selling you fermented wash...

[bearriver]

Why get into home distilling if you just want to buy everything you need and skip over fundamentals? You will probably get a better product for less money at a liquor store using that approach. You are essentially taking a wooden window dowel into a gunfight.

This is a craft that takes endless research, and complete understanding of how and why things work the way they do. Starting before that, is a recipe for disaster. Pun intended. Nobody is being mean. It's just the way it is. The reading lounge is a good place to start your research, then try to >>build<< your still from home distiller approved plans. CL and scrap yards are cheap. I've seen high quality stills built for less than the cost of a t500. Rad has an affordable build guide for an apartment sized LM that would be perfect for what your looking for. Check his signature.

[Prairiepiss]

I will make it as simple as I can.

Shit in shit out.

Find a good tried and true recipe. In the tried and true recipe section. And go for it. They are all in that section for good reason.

I have never heard of a place selling wash to distill? And I don't know that that would be legal anywhere? I know I wouldn't trust it. Especially if they told me to use turbo clear on it.

[trig]

sorry i think people are misreading and im not explaining properly...

the liquor shop has like a home brewing / bar out the back i dno how they work it or whatever but im pretty sure they arnt being dodgy / illegal in what they are doing.

second they say i DO NOT have to add turbo clear or anything its already been filtered out and i can see that when i bring the wash home there is NO sediment AT all after leaving it to set for a day or 2.

as i said im more or less just trying it out im very happy to also make my own washes i was just told about it and was keen to get a first brew done and that was a quick way to do it without waiting a week for the fermentation. seeing as i already have this turbo 500 and i KNOW from other peoples brewing who also use it with no problems im just assuming its the wash / something i have done.

im really just asking that since i know people who also use this shops wash without any hassle is it probably something i have done? the still got ever so slightly over the max line but only by a centimetre or 2 , i put the anti foaming agent and ceramics in the bottom of the still to help stop the boil surging etc but could some have gone up there? what else could have gone wrong here ?

also i know people are saying about the cuts but the way that this t500 works and is explained on other peoples videos etc it says apart from that first 50 ml or so its practically unnecesary to take out anything else after that..

i took a reading at 2 litres of my stilling and it was like 92-93 %.

[rad14701]

The plain and simple is that that place can't sell you wash, period...!!! No raw beer, wine, wash, distilled spirits, nothing alcoholic... It has to do with taxation, just like everything else... They made it and they can't sell it without following the proper taxation and claiming that a brewery, winery, or distillery has to abide by... Whatever it is that they have out back is most likely not legal...

What state are you in...??? Perhaps you don't know the laws as well as some of us around here because it sure doesn't sound legitimate to me... My guess is that they ordered in some products and decided to take them for a spin without knowing the legalities themselves... And then they went a step further by selling...

[trig]

i live in New Zealand and they have been doing it for a while can ring up asking about pricing etc

[Soggy Bottom Boy]

I will make it as simple as I can.
Shit in shit out.

I always thought it was GIGO. Garbage in, garbage out.

I have never heard of a place selling wash to distill? And I don't know that that would be legal anywhere?

What is the difference between that, and buying a growler filled with beer, cider, or wine at the local brew pub and taking it home to drink?

Also, I get the feeling from different phraseology used by member trig, that he may not be in the good ol' USofA.

on edit: I type too slow!!! So, it is now factual, he ain't from around these here parts!

[trig]

my phraseology will be different because im also an extreme novice me and my brother went halves in buying the still we are keen to try different things just wanted to try this wash and get a brew going for the weekend.. i never mentioned im in NZ because i was not worried about getting caught up on if the wash is legal to sell or not hahaha... its a proper wash i never asked the details but i did ask if its filtered etc and they say yes can just put it straight into the still. which i did. and it had no sediment in the bottom etc.

i should of tasted the wash to see what its like before stilling it

[MitchyBourbon]

I don't think I would trust any bar/brew shop legal or not. There's no telling what kind of fermentation practices they use.

[rad14701]

i never mentioned im in NZ because i was not worried about getting caught up on if the wash is legal to sell or not hahaha...

You might want to consider adding your location to your profile for the benefit of the entire HD community... It might help eliminate issues in the future... But, as MitchyBourbon stated, I wouldn't trust someone elses wash simply based on their say so... And I'd still question the legality of selling wash, even in NZ...

[trig]

ok ok that aside i have just tried sampling a little bit more of my filterd down 40% neutral. it doesnt seem to taste as much of the yeast but i notice a more sweet smell aswell. maybe im just needing a 2nd opinion but i dont know whats going on here.. i still have some of the original going through the filtering process that definately has a bit of that yeasty and sweet ish smell but the filterd stuff doesnt seem as bad as the stuff i tried yesterday.. il give it a few minutes let my taste buds and nose settle then go back again for a test...

[Prairiepiss]

I know what the manufactures say. And all the videos say. But that still is not magic. It can't produce a product that cuts doesn't need to be made. Cuts need to be made on every still. And every wash. That is if you want a good drink. If you are ok with swill. By all means don't make cuts. But if you are having problems with a off taste. And you didn't make cuts. That's where you need to start. Along with a good recipe.

[HDNB]

Being novice too, i made the mistake of not cutting off soon enough, all in one jug and got the same result. i was lucky enough to redistill into 10 separate containers so i could judge what was good and bad the second time around and found the (same?) smell only in the last take off...the tails...so i tossed it and kept some great product from earlier in the run.
One thing that i never saw here was the suggestion of throwing the final goodies on wood for a while.
I found some "medium toast french oak chips" at a local wine store (for finishing wine ) and tossed 30 grams into about 10L of final run in a glass carboy, and i'll be damned if it does not get better by the day.

[trig]

definately gona look at adding chips to batches later on once i got a system down, just had the flat mates try and smell it , it seems to be WAY better than what it was yesterday.. almost no yeast smell or taste just ever so slightly. seems letting it go through the carbon filter and that bit of airation to it is helping it out alot somehow

if i add oak chips to it doesnt that flavour it though? id preferably like to have a neutral spirit that can be put into separate bottles and flavoured accordingly as i want them. i dont think i cut of to late but i do get the point of maybe seperating out the final litre or so at least to get rid of potential bad tasting tails.

im definately looking to make a clean " smooth " neutral at the end of the day. what do you mean making cuts to the wash? i ended up just tipping out the wash once the stilling was complete. took me about 4-5 hours to still the 4.15 litres btw just if that matters.. wich i thought is about a standard time for it

[Prairiepiss]

Make cuts of the spirits coming off the still. Find the novice guide to cuts thread. Found in the must read new distiller reading lounge.

[BayouShine]

also i know people are saying about the cuts but the way that this t500 works and is explained on other peoples videos etc it says apart from that first 50 ml or so its practically unnecesary to take out anything else after that..

I don't care what type of still you use, you HAVE to make cuts if you want your spirits to taste good. The type of still you have just makes the cuts a little easier because you can do a better job of isolating them.

Every wash has foreshots, heads, hearts and tails. There's no getting around it.

[trig]

yep i fully get that and am not trying to sound naive i just understood it to be not quite so relavent unless your really trying to get picky.

in my mind if i try make a white rum or white spirit etc i heard you need to filter them a few times make them smooth and mellow to not have extra tastes. these cases i would try do cuts and seperate out best of the best.

i just know from other peoples brews using this t500 that it doesnt give them almost any other flavours in their spirit and i was hoping to get the same, like i said only filtered it 1 time through carbon filter and even the stuff that hasnt filtered yet is smelling alot better.

maybe i just needed to air it for a few days after cutting it down, i had the stuff in a demijohn with seal on not off, i heard its a good idea to let it breathe for a few days i never knew why but if it helps get rid of that taste / smell mellow out a bit then that is no worry for me

[bearriver]

Trig, you have a slew of standard questions and misguided ideas about distillation that are covered explicitly in the >>must read<< sections on this website. All members are expected to do the basic mandatory research before jumping into this hobby and these forums.

I hope you get into the groove of things and find success here, this is a wonderful forum and great place to learn. You are dangerously misguided in my opinion. That's nothing real research won't fix. (Absolutely no YouTube)

Don't listen to a single word from brew shops. EVER. Worst advice I've ever heard comes from brew, and grow shops. They will piss down your neck and tell you it's rain.

One last thing, there is a thread with improved instructions for your t500. Just do a search. The information they gave you with that thing was f*@ktarded

[NZChris]

Take a sample to the brew shop and ask them. You might have just been a bit greedy with the tails, or they might be poor brewers. It's a bit hard to guess without a sniff.

[trig]

hmm you might be right i was definately trying not to be greedy with the tails i didnt wana try force out more than i could from it and taint the distillate. but maybe i overstepped the tails without noticing. once the temp was higher at bout the 3 -4 hour mark and it was slowing down i watched it closely, once the amount of distillate coming out wasnt any more then about 1 drop every 10 seconds i waited for 5 minutes to collect any last little bit just coming out then stopped. i wish i was more easily able to describe exactly what im tasting compared to what it should taste like. i havnt really tried neutral spirits to give a comparison.

can somone tell me what the use of airing the distillate does?

it has honestly improved by over about 90% on the smell of yeast that was there 24 hours ago to almost being non existent / the sweet ish/ ethanol smell is probably overpowering any of the last yeasty smells that are there.