Grain Flavored Sugar Wash

[ukeman]

Hello all,
Looking at making a grain flavored sugar wash this weekend, kind of similar to UJSSM, but will not be doing the backset/sour mashing part. Just a single fermentation, then a spirit run in a pot still. This is my first sugar wash ever. Not ready for cooking mashes yet. This is what I am thinking.

I have an 8 gallon Mile Hi milk can still so plan on charging it with 6 gallons wash (too much?). As I understand it, the grain will soak up some of the liquid so I will adjust for that to get 6 gallons of actual wash.

Instead of the 1.4# of corn/gallon of water like for UJSSM, I plan on splitting it to 80% corn, 10% malted barley and 10% rye.

7 gallons Brita Filtered tap water (no nice springs around where I live) – am guessing this is better than plain tap water.
10# white sugar
8# flaked corn
1# malted barley (coarse ground)
1# rye (coarse ground)
2 tbsp active dry baker’s yeast

I am guessing that by doing a coarse ground on the barley and rye, rather than whole grain, that it will add more flavor/release more to the wash. My plan is to put all the grain in a bucket, add warm water to make a warm to the touch wash then pitch the yeast (after I get it going in some warm sugar water first).

Don’t know if there would be any benefit to pouring boiling water on the corn/rye first and let sit for a bit to release some of the flavors/starches then add cool water to get a warm mixture before adding the malted barley (don’t know if boiling water will harm the enzymes in the malted barley).

I am thinking that if I distill it low and slow then the resulting distillate should have a nice flavor come across. Of course, doing proper cuts…..which will be interesting for the first time.

Looking for thoughts on this plan and the resulting flavor expectations.

[Coyote]

Do yourself and your outcome a big favor
and stick to something from the Tried & True
section to start with.

What you are doing is a sugar head wash
much like the Sweet Feed recipe.

If you follow and have questions we can help you
cause we have been there - if you wild cat a recipe
then your sort of on your own.

Good Luck

Coyote

[ukeman]

Hey guys,

The wash has been fermenting beautifully for 2 days now. Has a nice head of grain on top of it. I will give it a full 7 days before I do a spirit run through my pot still. Question I have ..... should I stir the wash daily or at all after it has started fermentation? There is a large grain cap on top of it and....I am guessing a large volume of grain on the bottom as well. Is there any benefit/negative affects to stirring the wash as it ferments? I was thinking that stirring it would redistribute the grain again allowing for more flavor to be extracted? Thoughts and help please!

[T-Pee]

Leave it alone until it's done which ain't necessarily seven days. You do have a hydrometer to know when that is, right?

tp

[ukeman]

Yes, I do have and know how to use a hydrometer. Just plan on leaving it until I have time to run the still again next weekend. It won't hurt to leave it for a day or two after it is ready to run will it?

[T-Pee]

It won't hurt to leave it for a month or two and even much longer. There are those here that have left m(w)ashes for six months or so and it turned out quite well.

tp

[ukeman]

OK....starting wash was 1.06 SG.....now it is 0.98 SG after 6 days. Is is kind of fizzing a bit. Do you guys think i could run it tomorrow?

[T-Pee]

Is it clearing or still kind of stirred up?
You want it to clear first otherwise the suspended solids can contribute to some odd flavors during the distillation process.

tp

[ukeman]

Pretty milky looking with lots of floating clumps.

[T-Pee]

Let it finish then run it once it clears.

Patience is a must in this hobby if you want quality. It's tough for me too!

tp

[ukeman]

Appreciate your help as usual T-Pee! Hard to tell really...it's in a solid plastic pail....can't see inside the liquid layer. There is a grain cap on top and the liquid below looks kind of milky. How much will it clear? How much longer should I wait? Based on the SG's is it ready to run?

[T-Pee]

Based on the SG, yes. Based on the milky wash, no. It should clear and actually look...well...clear, like colored water without suspended solids.
Unless I haven't learned anything around here, I believe the cap is being supported by remaining fermentation gases still being produced. Once that stops, I believe the cap should fall to the bottom not being supported by the CO2 production of the ferment any longer.

If you absolutely can't stand it any longer, run it. It just won't be all it an be, ya know?

tp

[ukeman]

Hey T-Pee,

Checked the wash again....still slowly bubbling. That`s 8 days now. Was wondering if it will slowly keep fermenting for a while due to the pound of malted barley I added to the corn and rye? Would the enzymes in the malted barley slowly keep converting the starches in the corn and rye that are slowly being leeched out to sugar and thus, fermented to ethanol? If this is so, this could keep slowly fermenting for a few weeks. If this is the case, is it best to let it keep fermenting or run it?

Thanks again..

[T-Pee]

I dunno about all the enzymes and malting stuff (yet). I'm still running sugarheads to learn how to best run my equipment but I do know one thing...
If it's still bubblin' it's still fermenting. Run it early and lose out on all it can be and even possibly risk a puke when the unfermented sugars makes it foam up.
The choice is purely yours as to how you want to proceed.

I've got three ferments >2 weeks old but I'm trying to learn patience. My 10yo mustang/draft mare helps in this aspect of my life too, btw.

tp

[Bushman]

If your SG is 0.98 I am guessing it's probably done but leaving it won't hurt. Does it taste sour or is there still a sweetness to the flavor?

[ukeman]

Tastes pretty sour to me...kind of makes the lips pucker a bit!

Just checked the SG again...down to .94 now.

Any idea how low it will go...

[rad14701]

Don't you mean 0.998 and 0.994...???

[ukeman]

Oops....sorry...yes! Thanks for the correction! SG is 0.994

[ukeman]

Would it actually hurt to give the whole thing a stir up? Just thinking that if I stirred it up it might extract some more flavor from all the corn sitting in the bottom of the fermentor. Won`t be running it now until Friday when I have time again so it will have a lot of time for everything to settle down again and clear up.

[rad14701]

It really doesn't work that way... You want to let the wash clear, not roil it up... You won't get much more flavor even if you distilled on the grain, you'll only potentially invite more problems - especially if heating with electric...

[bluenose]

Since your SG is telling you it's done, I know from a beer brewing point of view, you could help the suspended things settle down by crash cooling it. Not sure if it's a good idea for distilling, but beer brewers also use gelaton to fully clear their beers. The gelaton grabs onto floaters and drags them to the bottom to die a horrible death.

[MitchyBourbon]

Your wash is done. You have allowed it to settle on the grain, on the yeast cake. This is good, it allows the yeast to clean up a bit. As said, yo u can safely let it sit the way it is for longer if you wish.

If you want you want to clear it faster, siphon off what you can into another sanitized fermenter. Then if you can place it someplace cool or cold it should clear much faster.

After siphoning, you will be left with a fair amount of liquid still soaked up in the grains. You can squeeze the liquid out or you can toss it. I recommend tossing this if you are running a pot still. It's my opinion that squeezing the grain, which also contains a lot of spent yeast, will impart a yeasty flavor.

[ukeman]

OK....

Just siphoned off the liquid into another pail and will let it sit again for another 3 days before I run it. Smell is wonderful and has a nice mild sour taste to it. Not really yeasty at all. The wash was actually pretty clear until I took some of the liquid from grain bed at the bottom. Settling again very quickly though. Can't wait to run it. I am guessing it will be like the sweet run of UJSSM but with a little more spice to it from the rye. Any suggestions on running it in my pot still? Last run I tried to keep a nice steady stream of liquid coming out.

Thanks for all your help and insight guys!

[ukeman]

Ok, ran this stuff last Friday night. Out of a 6 gallon charge I got ~1 gallon (after cuts) of 55%. Taste and smell are delightful! So smooth! Just waiting from my oak aging stix from oak solutions group. Was thinking of putting one medium-plus and one heavy into each 1/2 gallon mason jar.

A question for the guys who do mashing. How different is the flavor if you actually mash the grain versus only adding the grain for flavor in a sugar wash such as this? Is the flavor (when run in a pot still) basically the same.....just a different source of sugar?

Cheers!

[MitchyBourbon]

I think the taste is very different. I don't know if I can give a good description of the difference, I have not done a sugar head in a very long time. I do remember thinking that all grain had a much richer flavor. All grain presents a more pronounced array of flavors and aromas. It's 3 dimensional versus 2 dimensional. Well, that all sounds like bs. Let me just say that all grain is a little more work than sugar heads. If I had not found the flavor different and more to my liking I'd still be doing sugar heads.

[SoMo]

Ok, ran this stuff last Friday night. Out of a 6 gallon charge I got ~1 gallon (after cuts) of 55%. Taste and smell are delightful! So smooth! Just waiting from my oak aging stix from oak solutions group. Was thinking of putting one medium-plus and one heavy into each 1/2 gallon mason jar.

A question for the guys who do mashing. How different is the flavor if you actually mash the grain versus only adding the grain for flavor in a sugar wash such as this? Is the flavor (when run in a pot still) basically the same.....just a different source of sugar?

Cheers!

The difference is phenomenal, with the AG's you lose a lot of the hot bite that a sugar head makes. My advice to you would be read up on Jimbo, big R, and NC hooch they make doing AG mashes so easy. I've only been doing this a few months and taken to the mashing really easily. There is no comparison between a wash and a mash. Good luck read,read ,read.

[ukeman]

Guys,

Got another 30 gallons of the same wash going again...the first sweet run tasted that good! Question I have now is about sour mashing. The first time I ran this it took approximately 2 weeks to stop fermenting and clear out. If I give this new batch of wash another 2 weeks will the yeast still be alive (after settling and clearing for that long) to add the back set back to the original ferment to get a sour mash going? Question is.....will yeast live in the primary for 2 weeks before getting the sour going? Will the colony be strong enough to get fermenting again once I add the back set, water and sugar after 2 weeks?

Thanks!

[ukeman]

Anybody have anything to say to this? Trying to get an idea how long the yeast stay alive after the vigorous fermentation ends and I allow it to clear for a week or so before getting the sour mash going. Will I have to add yeast again or will the yeast in the lees still be fully active after 2 weeks of fermenting/clearing?

Thanks!