Novice Question - second run

[KeggerJoe]

Ok, I have done some searching and reading and I have some questions.

I made a run with my updated still. I converted to electric and man, what a difference.

I made a sac run first,<Converted to electric>, then a cleaning run, then another sac run, then I did this run.

I have a column reflux still that I run in pot still mode (Reflux valve closed). My wash was a sugar wash which consisted of 2 batches with this recipe.

8lbs sugar
1 - 6oz can of tomato paste
water, and a pack of s-04. I later added a packet of EC-1118 due to it stalling and nutrients.

Starting SG was 1.084
Last SG reading was .990. I figured the was was around 11%

I added 8 actual gallons of was to the my still and fired it up.

Product started coming off the still at 181 F. I collected 9 pints(8.5). Thermometer was calibrated with boiling water and inserted at the top of the main column (Vapor path)

I shut it down at 194 F.

I tasted it along the way and towards the end it started to feel a little slippery and thicker. I assumed I had hit the tails which made me shut it down.

Since I ended up with a half pint i decided i would just dilute it with tap water. I poured what I had in my beaker and checked it. It measured at 130 proof or 65%. I dumped some out of the beaker and added luke warm tap water to 80 proof. I added it to an empty jar and repeated the process. After it all settled in the jar, it was cloudy.

Now after some searching I found this posted by PrairiePiss

You used bad water to dilute it?
You made bad cuts?
You ran it to fast and smeared the cuts?
Dilution process was incorrect?
Those are your choices. Figure out which one it is and correct it.

This was my second run, so I was hoping someone might chime in and just confirm my suspicion that the last jar was just the tails and I should be ok to dilute the rest with tap, bottle or distilled water.

In the same thread I quoted there was also the discussion of how to dilute, Do you add the alcohol to the water or water to the alcohol. The OP ended up a little butt hurt and the thread headed south. I tried to Google the proper way to dilute but ended up finding a bunch of opinions and name calling. Just looking for confirmation from one of the "Chosen Ones" as the last OP put it.

My first run ended up horrible and I dumped it out. Couldn't control the heat, couldn't control the cooling.. it was a mess.

Thanks for the help

[Hound Dog]

I don't quite understand what you mean by running your reflux still with the reflux valve closed. And some people will give you a hard time about watching the temps if you are actually running in pot still mode. Fact is that in pot still mode there is nothing you can do about the temperature because the wash will boil at the temp determined by the percentage of alcohol to water. This is why the temp goes up as the percentage of alcohol goes down.

None the less, to your question..... You did well to collect in the small jars. Hopefully you are using your own senses to determine the cuts within these jars and not the temps. You do add alcohol to the water. This is my favorite calculator from the parent site and it states the same to avoid clouding http://homedistiller.org/calcs/rad14701" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow (thanks Rad). Just use good water that does not have a lot of minerals in it. Distilled is always safe and pretty cheap.

[KeggerJoe]

I used taste and ABV to determine whats what.

My Cloudy Jar Vs An Un-diluted Jar




Look at the valves on the short column. The one that returns the condensed product to the main column is closed.

[Hound Dog]

Makes perfect sense to me now

Wow! That is cloudy! Even if it was a little bit of tails in it, that's pretty cloudy. Put it in the freezer and see if it settles out. If it does then maybe it was just minerals in the water. I would try some distilled water on a good hearts jar and see what happens. Worth a shot.

[KeggerJoe]

Thanks for the reply! I'll give it a shot! or two

[Prairiepiss]

Dilute with distilled water.
Add alcohol to the water.
And they should be the same temp. No Luke warm stuff. Just room temp for both the water and alcohol.
Yes the cloudy jar is most likely tails.
Let's see 8 gallons of 11% would be 7 pints of 100% ABV. If it came off an average of 60% that would be 14 pints.
You ran it in pot still mode. The take off valve should have been open all the way. And you should have been controlling the take off speed. With power (heat) input. Temps would have ment very little.

You didn't say what ABV your collection is? Didn't say it the column was packed? Didn't say if the take off valve was all the way open? Didn't say how fast you were taking product off?

[bellybuster]

seeing as you r last jar was still 65% I would have to assume you are still refluxing (cup filling and running over into column). Removing your packing when running in pot still mode will help this quite a bit as well as slowing down. Looks like 1/4" takeoff? I am able to fill the cup and I have 3/8" takeoff.
With that I would say yes you are in to tails, is there any oils floating on top?

side note, the synthetic hose on your takeoff is gonna leach some nasties into your drink, I'd lose it if it were mine. I would also not be drink in what came thru it. Your choice.

[KeggerJoe]

You didn't say what ABV your collection is?
1 - 175 2:20 PM 181F
2 - 170 3:18 PM 181.5F
3 - 170 4:22 PM 181.8F
4 - 165 5:17 PM 183F
5 - 160 6: 12 PM 184F
6 - 160 7: 09 PM 185F
7 - 155 8: 15 PM 187F
8 - 140 9:20 PM 189F
9 - 130 10:40 PM 194F - It really slowed down at this point, the taste was off so i shut it down.

Didn't say it the column was packed? No packing

Didn't say if the take off valve was all the way open? Take off was half open filling the cup about 1/2- 3/4 full. I checked it half way through and again at the tear down.

Didn't say how fast you were taking product off? It ran the entire run about 2 - 3 drops per second. It never ran at a steady stream. It timed out at about a pint an hour. about every hour at 20 after, i changed the jar. They all came out pretty equal.

It is a 1\4 takeoff, The hose is food grade stuff but I'm not sure if that matters with alcohol.

I do not see any oil floating on top at this time or at the time of diluting it.

Thanks for the replies!

[SoMo]

Dude there's no such thing as a alcohol safe food grade anything but ptfe, you gotta change that one it's a no no, I hope rad doesn't see that. I would add the milky jar to the feints jug and re run it.

[KeggerJoe]

Anything rad can call me, I can deal with. I'll dump the cloud shine into the next run. I'm thinking of building a parrokeet . The mini version for my take off, I think I can get the stuff from work.

I'm learning, as long as I can correct my mistakes, I can make forward progress.

[Hound Dog]

Did jar #5 or #6 cloud up any when adding it to room temp distilled water? If not, it was just a tails thing, roll on KeggerJoe!

[bellybuster]

It's probably your 1/4" takeoff causing the slow speed and the reflux. When running pot mode you need it wide open and running at a stream. You have 2 choices, accept the higher ABV and long run, or switch out to 3/8" takeoff.. No need to remove the packing if all of the distillate is being taken off.

For running a parrot from a Nixon stone you need to cool the distillate, get rid of the hose and replace it with a small Liebig and you're goin for gold

[KeggerJoe]

I'm going to Change out the take off but I still may run it long and high... I threw the plastic out.. the only plastic is the cooling lines now....

[bellybuster]

I put together a quick pot still very shortly after building my nixon stone for these same reasons. I just couldn't stand the time it took. It excels at running high ABV neutrals though.
As far as changing your takeoff, it will speed up in pot still mode, I have found 1/4" gets locked up when there's no pressure behind it. I have a failed parrot that I tried 1/4" on the input.
Good call on the plastic tubing, you never know what it might be putting into your likker.

[rad14701]

How long had that jar sat after adding the water to the alcohol...??? Sure looks like part of the clouding is due to air bubbles created during exothermic reaction... Looks like condensation on the upper jar wall and I'd bet that jar felt significantly warmer than the undiluted jar... I don't get alarmed when I dilute and the spirits look like that because once the temperature goes back down and the air bubbles dissipate the spirits clear right up... My cloudy tails never get diluted, they just get tossed into the feints jar - or just tossed if I think they smell and look too nasty...

[Prairiepiss]

By only having the takeoff open half way. While trying to run in pot still mode. You smeared the tails in to the product damed up in the collection cup.

The valve should be full open in pot still mode. And drips are for reflux runs. Not pot still runs. Running to slow is known to give an astingent flavor to the final product. When not refluxing. Compounded by the fact the product was pooled in the collection cup.

[KeggerJoe]

I took some distilled water to jar #4. Both measured 68F. I added Alcohol to water on one jar and water to alcohol on the other. Both of them clouded up. I am guessing I smeared the entire run. I stuck the two jars in the freezer to see if they would clear but I doubt they will.

Are they still drinkable? Or should I chalk it up to education and re-run it? I'm not drinking it strait, I want to make some apple pie, cherry pie, and some lemon drop with this batch.