The Feints Run Myth

[sounder_4]

I just completed yet another disappointing UJSSM feints run. 5 gal charge, made conservative cuts....saved 2 liters of basically off-flavor crap. I keep reading about the magical feints run and the nectar it supposedly produces. I've been doing feints runs for a couple of years and have never yielded whiskey anywhere near the quality of the original spirit run. It always ends up tasting musty and slightly unpleasant. Next spirit run, all but the keeper stuff goes down the drain. Waste of energy and time.

[heartcut]

I do feints runs in a reflux still at right around azeo and they turn out well- concentrated heads for the shop and the ants, some good neutral and tails for the drain.

[Jimbo]

I can testify all feints runs work great for all grain whiskies and apple brandy. Not sure about sugary stuffs.

[Truckinbutch]

Quit trying to drink a feints run right off the still . Air it , blend it , and put it on oak . Forget about it for a year or so and then try it . Why do you think they call the middle of the run the hearts ? That's where the best quick drinkin is . The rest takes time to get good .

[sounder_4]

Quit trying to drink a feints run right off the still . Air it , blend it , and put it on oak . Forget about it for a year or so and then try it . Why do you think they call the middle of the run the hearts ? That's where the best quick drinkin is . The rest takes time to get good .

Age it all you want...It's sloppy seconds.

[woodshed]

Down the drain may not be the best idea. I am not a fan of the Feints run either. Mine always go into to the next run.
Nothing but tails. Feints and a small amount of backset left in the still can dramatically improve your flavor profile.
Or screw it all up depending on your tastes.

[Jimbo]

Down the drain may not be the best idea. I am not a fan of the Feints run either. Mine always go into to the next run.
Nothing but tails. Feints and a small amount of backset left in the still can dramatically improve your flavor profile.
Or screw it all up depending on your tastes.

+1. Agreed.

[woodshed]

My thoughts on this. Why put all of the feints into one run you feel compelled to age just to clean up?

Much easier to clean up a small amount at a time with a high quality ferment. Lot's of flavor to be had running them again by batch.

From a commercial perspective it does not add up. So why would it at home? If you are going for that profile then good on ya.
If not give em a toss back into your next run.

[corene1]

Down the drain may not be the best idea. I am not a fan of the Feints run either. Mine always go into to the next run.
Nothing but tails. Feints and a small amount of backset left in the still can dramatically improve your flavor profile.
Or screw it all up depending on your tastes.

+1. Agreed.

I will second that. I typically take the tails of a stripping run or spirit run and add them to a fresh mash of the same recipe and strip them together, constantly cycling them little bit at a time. It adds a lot of subtle flavors in the aged whiskey. Even at that I have done some all feints runs that have come out very good with the proper time given to them.

[Hound Dog]

I mix all my feints, both heads and tails from different recipes together and reflux the crap out of them to get a good neutral. Never tried doing it for flavor like a whiskey or rum in a pot still.

[sounder_4]

I don't need fuel, not interested in vodka, don't have any desire to age stuff I know is not my best effort. Heads/tails down the drain on all future sugar runs. I'll try a feints run on an AG run just to satisfy my own curiosity, but I doubt the result will be different.

As far as I know commercial distillers don't do a feints run, most likely for good reason.

[Mr Shine]

As far as I know commercial distillers don't do a feints run, most likely for good reason.

If that's indeed the case, then that makes a good point right there.

However, I've heard some do feints runs and mark them as "special reserve." Don't know if that's true though.

[LBHD]

I don't need fuel, not interested in vodka, don't have any desire to age stuff I know is not my best effort. Heads/tails down the drain on all future sugar runs. I'll try a feints run on an AG run just to satisfy my own curiosity, but I doubt the result will be different.

As far as I know commercial distillers don't do a feints run, most likely for good reason.

Commercial distillers also dont make good cuts!

[planethax]

I don't need fuel, not interested in vodka, don't have any desire to age stuff I know is not my best effort. Heads/tails down the drain on all future sugar runs. I'll try a feints run on an AG run just to satisfy my own curiosity, but I doubt the result will be different.

As far as I know commercial distillers don't do a feints run, most likely for good reason.

Commercial distillers also dont make good cuts!

If any at all.
Thats why all the heads are still there.

[Bob Loblaw]

I can't recall reading too much about all-feints runs. Seems like most people add them to the next run (what I do) or save them up for a neutral run. Maybe the myth is that there are a lot of people doing all-feints runs?

[Jimbo]

I can't recall reading too much about all-feints runs. Seems like most people add them to the next run (what I do) or save them up for a neutral run. Maybe the myth is that there are a lot of people doing all-feints runs?

LOL. Yes, its more typical to add feints into the next run ( I put them in strippers so they get run twice more). But some of us have done all-feints runs, and they can turn out real nice. At least for AG's and Apple Brandys in my experience. I have both aging seperately from the main batch and surprisingly every bit as good. Of course depends on cuts. Bigger cuts from all feints runs (lower keep).

My comment below about tails and feints tho was that even straight up tails, aged a good long time, completely lose that wet dog cardboard shit and taste pretty damn good. The jug I tasted was over a year old, and unfortunately mixed with heads too, so the heads spoiled it as a keeper as is, but the tails shit was gone and replaced with a really nice grain character. (edit: sorry comment was in a different thread, here http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 9#p7208039)

[rad14701]

sounder_4, I'm sure several of us would gladly take all of your feints off your hands if you feel they are such a waste...

Even a pot still can clean up feints quite nicely, if handled properly... If all you are running is feints you shouldn't follow the normal low wines recommendation of diluting to 40%, you should dilute down to 20% or even lower... Think of your feints, if they were diluted to let's say 15% as wine or wash... That added water will do all the cleaning up for you during the distillation run... Even a pot still would produce clean spirits with some flavor, just not pristine flavored spirits like the initial runs hearts had - but close... A reflux column would clean them up even better... And just because you may not like them doesn't mean you can't offer them up to moochers... And if they don't like them they'll stop mooching... Or you could use the spirits to do some maceration's...

Just tossing the feints is tantamount to alcohol abuse...!!!

[Dan P.]

Recycle feints in the strip or spirit runs. No need to toss them, no need to do an all feints run either, though some people may like that.
Personally, with a pot still, I believe feints should go in the spirit run.

[sounder_4]

Recycle feints in the strip or spirit runs. No need to toss them, no need to do an all feints run either, though some people may like that.
Personally, with a pot still, I believe feints should go in the spirit run.

lol..u folks crack me up. Feints are rejected spirits. Y do you believe they will improve with another run? I spent the better part of a day and a whole lotta fuel running the feints. Got better things to do with my time and fuel. Frankly, I think those that toss their feints into the next run are fooling themselves...it's not adding flavor, only consuming fuel.

[rad14701]

lol..u folks crack me up. Feints are rejected spirits. Y do you believe they will improve with another run? I spent the better part of a day and a whole lotta fuel running the feints. Got better things to do with my time and fuel. Frankly, I think those that toss their feints into the next run are fooling themselves...it's not adding flavor, only consuming fuel.

Because we with some experience know that feints aren't all bad... What re-running them does is to extract the good ethanol from the bad components... If you don't experiment with feints you'll never learn that and will continue to waste good alcohol by tossing it out with the bad components... Maybe you should open your mind and learn from those with more experience rather than merely taking a stance and sticking with it... Perhaps it is you who is the fool... You simply haven't experimented with enough techniques to learn what works for you...

You wouldn't toss out the baby with the bath water, would you...???

[woodshed]

Damn it rad, you beat me to it.

[Jimbo]

Damn it man. You both beat me to it. Feints are the same as hearts with more smearing of fusel oils (tails) and higher alcohols, heads. Another cleaning run done like Rad says is no different than the spirit run. Do you really think theres some ordained special something that happens at run 2 but not 3?

[shadylane]

The flavor and smoothness of a Feints run
Depends on what went into it.
And how it was run...

[Dan P.]

Recycle feints in the strip or spirit runs. No need to toss them, no need to do an all feints run either, though some people may like that.
Personally, with a pot still, I believe feints should go in the spirit run.

lol..u folks crack me up. Feints are rejected spirits. Y do you believe they will improve with another run? I spent the better part of a day and a whole lotta fuel running the feints. Got better things to do with my time and fuel. Frankly, I think those that toss their feints into the next run are fooling themselves...it's not adding flavor, only consuming fuel.

What kind of still are you running?
Perhaps you were trying to do an all feints run from a column of some kind?
Either way, do what suits your own tastes. However, don't think you are onto something revolutionary; I think people give quite a lot of thought to feints management, perhaps especially pot stillers. Usually our thoughts are a bit more nuanced than those you have offered here. Onward and upward!

[googe]

I do feints when ive stripped something, doesn't happen offen but it makes a good neutral for me.I don't rerun them from a single spirit run as a hate always thought the gain would not be worth it as there's not much alc left over 90%. I know a lot of you commenting run columns capable of high proof, do you still use your feints from these runs?, or just flavoring?.

[Bushman]

When doing an all feints run (which means I've saved up several runs) with my CM I do it not for flavor but for a neutral base for making Kahlua, vodka, or an infused liqueur. But with Sweet Feed or UJ I usually just run it with my next generation.

[sounder_4]

The original post questioned those that claim feints runs to produce "nectar of the gods", etc. etc. I'm calling BS on that.

I run a pot still, have zero interest in neutral

I've run feints at 40% and diluted to 20%...makes no difference. Feints are what's left over after taking the hearts.....running them again isn't worth the fuel to try to extract that last pint of drinkable ethanol. I run propane and it isn't cheap where I live. I also have to consider whether it's worth several hours of my time to try to squeeze that last drop of flavor from a feints run.

Each to his own tastes.

[Scribbler]

Those here that run their feints have demonstrated success and ( best of all) have offered up a sound empirically convincing explanation regarding the separation of desirable/undesirable components. I sympathize with the op's frustration -it sucks to be disappointed after weeks of preparation and anticipation. Like, really really sucks. I totally see how you would be tempted to say "screw it" and just abandon the idea.

My experience though, is that if I try something based on the advice of the experienced community and it DOESN'T work, the problem is with my understanding, or an error I made along the way... While distilling is an art, it is also most definitely a science, and as such, all proofs supporting a hypothesis (that you can get decent shit from feints) are reproducible.

I have never done an all feints run, but half way through my last ujsm (ended up with 3/4 of a carboy to age on oak) I began the feints from the previous run to kettle charge of the next run. It adds no real hassle (just storing and labeling a feints jar) and it means you are going bot recycle the same feints over and over -each time is another chance to make a good cut!

Don't give up!

[Jimbo]

If sounder doesnt like feints from UJ sugarhead on a potstill he doesnt like it. Thats fine. Others run that to near azeo on a column to make neutral, he doenst have one (nor do I). I have no experience with all feints runs of sugarheads, so cant speak to whether it should work or not, just offered my experience on AG and brandys, for what its worth.

Note to sounder. Sounds like you have a pretty discerning palate. Every consider giving an AG whiskey a go? Only 1 more step over what youre doing now, not difficult. And very tasty. (feints runs too LOL)

cheers

[Beerbrewer]

sounder_4, I'm sure several of us would gladly take all of your feints off your hands if you feel they are such a waste...

Even a pot still can clean up feints quite nicely, if handled properly... If all you are running is feints you shouldn't follow the normal low wines recommendation of diluting to 40%, you should dilute down to 20% or even lower... Think of your feints, if they were diluted to let's say 15% as wine or wash... That added water will do all the cleaning up for you during the distillation run... Even a pot still would produce clean spirits with some flavor, just not pristine flavored spirits like the initial runs hearts had - but close... A reflux column would clean them up even better... And just because you may not like them doesn't mean you can't offer them up to moochers... And if they don't like them they'll stop mooching... Or you could use the spirits to do some maceration's...

Just tossing the feints is tantamount to alcohol abuse...!!!

I agree, the last all feints run (tails only) that I did turned out fine and I use a pot still. There was a slight lemon/citrus edge but that was about it. I usually do as I would with a normal run and make foreshot cuts and tight head cuts.