Submersible Pump Size???

[wilded]

I have a two inch pot still with a 3/4 inch diameter, 24 inch long Liebig condenser. I plan on circulating cooling water out of a 55 gallon plastic barrel. What size pump or how many gallons per hour would I need, and is there a formula to figure the size you need? My boiler is a 15.5 gallon keg heated with gas burner. thanks,

[culvercreek]

I have a larger Leibig that that but same boiler size. If you can accommodate the head on this pump it is the one I use and it pumps a lot more than I really need. I was running a worn after the Leibig but at members suggestions here I took it out. I just did a stripping run last night and burner wide open I was pulling out at 65 F with just replacing water in the sink when it hit 85. sink holds about 5 gallons.

http://www.harborfreight.com/264-gph-su ... 68395.html

[googe]

I've been using the older model to this for almost two years now and have had no issues, great little pump!. I have the same size drum as you. http://www.bunnings.com.au/commercial-e ... p_p4813554" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[S-Cackalacky]

I think mine is somewhere around 380 GPH, but I think more important is the "head lift". Mine pushes 2 meters (about 6.5 ft.). The one you linked to might be ok. Once it gets going, there's a siphoning effect that helps it along.

[oilguy]

I use a 205 L plastic barrel with a 2 litre per minute pond pump @ 4' head, I can do stripping runs at 1 litre@ 5-6 minutes
Never any problem with knocking down steam- 36" Liebeg 3/4 over 1/2"

[Hound Dog]

I think mine is somewhere around 380 GPH, but I think more important is the "head lift". Mine pushes 2 meters (about 6.5 ft.). The one you linked to might be ok. Once it gets going, there's a siphoning effect that helps it along.

SC is right, you need to get a pump with enough head lift to operate a little above the top of your condenser. If you get that you will have ample flow. It really doesn't take much water flow through the condenser to cool things.

[tom sawyer]

I use one of these, and run it with a battery charger. The 2amp setting on the charger pushes plenty of water. I use a 55gal plastic drum for a reservoir too. Very handy and economical.

http://www.harborfreight.com/12-volt-ma ... 94639.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[rad14701]

With most pumps you have to run a bypass line anyway because the pumps deliver more water than the liebig needs or can handle, which can cause cavitation...

[tom sawyer]

Nope, with a few feet of head I get good flow and cooling.

[shadylane]

As Rad suggested a bypass will make the pumps life easier.

[tom sawyer]

Is there an average gpm for an average commercial Liebig condenser? I'm guessing g I see on the order of 3-5gal although I haven't measured. I'd rather buy an appropriately sized pump to begin with, restrictions flow would seem to be hard on a pump too. High back pressure and all.

[S-Cackalacky]

Is there an average gym for an average commercial Liebig condenser? I'm guessing g I see on the order of 3-5gal although I haven't measured. I'd rather buy an appropriately sized pump to begin with, restrictions flow would seem to be hard on a pump too. High back pressure and all.

With the type of bypass Rad is talking about, there is no backpressure to the pump. the flow of water is redirected back to the reservoir. It's basically a tee coupling with the main flow going from the pump to the liebig and the branch off the tee has a valve (ball or gate) that directs an adjustable amount of the flow back to the reservoir. So, with the valve you are basically adjusting the amount of water that actually flows up to the liebig.

[tom sawyer]

Gotcha, I will definitely look into that. While I don't think I'm getting cavitstion, the little pump I'm using moves quite a bit of water. With the 5gal barrel reservoir and running pot still, I've never worried about it much. The pump does get pretty warm over the course of a 3-1 run.

[Hound Dog]

I use a pond pump as Rad actually suggested when I first looked into a reflux build. It has a magnetic drive like the impeller in a fish tank filter so there are no worries with burning it up. I just have a valve to regulate the flow and call it good. For my reflux rig I usually have the liebig valve wide open and regulate the reflux condenser coil flow. In a way I guess they act as bypasses for each other as Rad says to do.

[CornMealKid]

Hello,

I've built a StillMaker Valved Reflux still, wondering if anyone knows what I'd do to run the pump for one of these things in a forest... I've seen the post about the battery charger, do I just buy a pump that is battery operated and use the charger to get her juiced up? This is something I overlooked, now I'm wondering if what I wanted to do is possible.

[Tokoroa_Shiner]

What sort of pump is it? Could use a car battery and a power inverter. And a cheap solar panel to charge battery while your running.

[bearriver]

With most pumps you have to run a bypass line anyway because the pumps deliver more water than the liebig needs or can handle, which can cause cavitation...

I got this from Wikipedia when I looked up cavitation (I had no Idea what it even was).

A submersible pump (or sub pump, electric submersible pump (ESP)) is a device which has a hermetically sealed motor close-coupled to the pump body. The whole assembly is submerged in the fluid to be pumped.[4] The main advantage of this type of pump is that it prevents pump cavitation, a problem associated with a high elevation difference between pump and the fluid surface...ect

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submersible_pump" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[CornMealKid]

What sort of pump is it? Could use a car battery and a power inverter. And a cheap solar panel to charge battery while your running.

I haven't got the pump yet, I'm looking at options for running outside, away from my property. I'll consider what you've suggested here, a car battery with power inverter, and a cheap solar panel... Only thing is, with the solar panel, I've then gotta be somewhat in the open to catch the rays, but it sounds like there won't be any other way.

[Bushman]

When I ran my VM I bought a pond pump from Lowe's, it wasn't that expensive and didn't need a bypass however it was rated for 12 vertical feet lift. I wouldn't get any thing less if you are running a reflux condenser. I had to take into account the propane stand, height of keg, 4' column, and that it had to have enough power to go through the Liebig and up to the coil at the top of the column.

[CornMealKid]

Good insights here; Thank You as always, Gentlemen. I am not sure what I'd do without this forum. I've got some things to buy now, I suppose.

[CornMealKid]

Okay,

I've found a pump here, haven't bought it yet, wondering if anyone can let me know what they think...
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/LIFT-26ft-1HP-11 ... 27e9a684aa" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

It's to pump cold water into a StillMaker style Valved Reflux still I built following Bob Lennon's book. Pump must send water up from a cool water reservoir (garbage bin) up about 3.5' to the water inlet (1/2" copper pipe soldered to 1/4" copper tube)... Then up about another 3 feet into where the condenser shell is (1/4" tubing into the 3" cap by way of a 1/4" brass elbow) then through about 4-6' of copper tubing which comprises the inner condenser coil, terminating through the 3" cap by way of another 1/4" brass elbow, then downhill through 1/4" copper tubing to the 1/2" pipe (outlet).

It says it's got a lift height of 26'... Seems to me this would fit the bill... Also runs at 110V so I'd need the power inverter to run off a car battery. Now here comes the tricky part; I understand a run on this still will go about eight hours, anyone think I'll be able to pull it off on the same car battery in a forest, without charging the battery with a solar panel or something like that... I'm brutal at this part of things. The power specs it lists is "110V 60Hz 3400RPM 0.75KW"... Although it is not continuously running (the pond pump), I've been told that each time I start the pump, a voltage spike will occur and could prematurely drain the battery before the end of a run... Anyone have experience with this?? It is just not feasible for me to run this thing on my property, unfortunately.

Appreciative of any guidance you folks can provide.

[Hound Dog]

Seems like expensive overkill compared to a small plastic pond pump you can get at Lowes for $30 with no shipping costs that will do the trick. As for running off a car battery, I would not have a clue how to figure that out. I am sure a deep cycle battery would be better though.

In today's age it seems much more risky to be out in the woods on someone else's land or guberment land than to just run in the garage, shed, basement with a small hobby still. There are too many ways to track you down these days if someone saw your rig. I'd be sure your fingerprints are all over some of the equipment you would be leaving behind if confronted by the law. Just pointing this out.....

[still_stirrin]

This little gem costs less, is battery powered and fits your head and flowrate needs. Plumb in a discharge (outlet) bypass for finer flowrate regulation withouth pump cavitation. Check it out:
http://t.harborfreight.com/12-volt-mari ... 94639.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

ss

[CornMealKid]

This little gem costs less, is battery powered and fits your head and flowrate needs. Plumb in a discharge (outlet) bypass for finer flowrate regulation withouth pump cavitation. Check it out:
http://t.harborfreight.com/12-volt-mari ... 94639.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

ss

Is the discharge bypass basically a valve to prevent water from entering the condenser coil at too high of a pressure?

[SoMo]

This little gem costs less, is battery powered and fits your head and flowrate needs. Plumb in a discharge (outlet) bypass for finer flowrate regulation withouth pump cavitation. Check it out:
http://t.harborfreight.com/12-volt-mari ... 94639.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

ss

Is the discharge bypass basically a valve to prevent water from entering the condenser coil at too high of a pressure?

No it reduces the pressure not being used to pump water thru the condenser. It keeps the pump from burning up due to heat and strain.
As others have mentioned hauling a still, your fermented wash, a propane burner and tank, a water reservoir,a pump hoses a battery and solar panel or what not leaves a lot of tracks and trips back and forth. Makes you an awfully easy target for someone you should really think that thru, running in the woods sounds cool and all but your leaving yourself wide open to get busted. If you carry a phone and use it for this forum any warrant they could get now can include multimedia devices could lead them here and add a conspiracy charge to anything else you could be charged with. Really think this thru, hunting seasons start soon across the US a wounded deer could be a real headache if someone tracks it to your woods and there you are making some likker.

[still_stirrin]

This little gem costs less, is battery powered and fits your head and flowrate needs. Plumb in a discharge (outlet) bypass for finer flowrate regulation withouth pump cavitation. Check it out:
http://t.harborfreight.com/12-volt-mari ... 94639.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

ss

Is the discharge bypass basically a valve to prevent water from entering the condenser coil at too high of a pressure?

Actually, the bypass circuit routes the output back to the inlet. A Tee in the pump discharge line is followed by a 90-degree bend that runs to a gate or ball valve. This is then routed via another 90-degree bend to another Tee on the suction (inlet) side of the pump.

When the valve is fully open, the water flows in a loop through the pump back to the suction (inlet) side of the pump. By throttling the valve you can regulate the flowrate to your condenser. Remember, pressure is the 'motive force' for water flow. But you control the condenser's water flow. The pump's pressure differential is balanced by the bypass circuit and the condenser circuit's flow resistance.

Some centrifugal pumps can cavitate if the discharge is closed, or nearly closed. This depends on the type of impeller. The bypass circuit allows the pump to continue to pump at an operating flowrate that would eliminate the chance of cavitation.

Sorry, mechanical engineering background is in 'the shine' again.
ss

[CornMealKid]

Okay, sends water back to the inlet so the pump won't overheat, delivers enough flow for cooling the condenser depending on how it's adjusted. Thanks still_stirrin and SoMo.