Keg still in apartment, heating options?

[smartypants]

I'm bummed out and frustrated... I have ingredients for my second batch of birdwatchers (ran one batch in a crappy test still that I would never drink from, just for fun and to see if it worked) and I have most of the metal components for my new pot still: Stainless 15.5 gallon keg, a bit of 2" copper to connect to keg and get a little height for takeoff, and some tubing for a worm etc. The bummer is that I had to move into an apartment after I started gathering this stuff. I was going to run it outside, probably with propane, but now that is off the table. I have extremely limited space now and don't know if I can still pull this off but I want to at least keep trying. I have been reading but going in circles so maybe you guys can save me some time and brain ache. What is, in your respective opinions, the best way to heat a keg boiler indoors WITHOUT cutting the keg? Is there even a good way? It would need to be cheap... If there is no feasible method I guess would have to give in and cut a hole for a water heater element... but I would really rather not alter the keg. I can't imagine that there would be any way to add an internal element without cutting a hole. I understand that an electric burner/hot plate is a bad plan because of the rounded shape of the keg bottom. Someone once suggested kind of shaping a coiled stovetop-type element to the bottom, since they are somewhat flexible, but I wouldn't know a good way to keep it there and I don't know if that would be safe (thoughts?). Well now I'm starting to ramble so I'll stop here. Any help is appreciated. This has been on hold for months now and I'm getting really antsy to get back at it. Thanks for reading.

[T-Pee]

Electric heating element. Make it happen.

tp

[smartypants]

Do you mean an internal element? Trying to explore all possible options that don't involve cutting the keg first. If I can't use the keg inside without cutting it, I would honestly rather use a stockpot on the stove and save the keg for when I have a yard again.

[Bob Loblaw]

You need to get an element in there if you want to use electric in a keg.

Not sure why you are so opposed to cutting it, but if it's an issue - then I'd start looking for a stock pot. Probably more practical for an apartment in any case

Side note, my experience is that you' really need 240v to make using a 15g keg bearable anyway - which is probably not available in an apartment setting unless you want to unplug your range or dryer.

Edit: now I remember your other post, you wanted to connect a column to the keg without soldering any fittings. You know that saying "you can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs"? Well, modify it here. You can't build a still without doing a little metal work. I think the appropriate advise has already been given. Suck it up and make it happen.

[smartypants]

That was a bit of a misunderstanding on the other post. I know soldering or welding needs to be done to build a column and make it "attachable" to a keg. I didn't really understand how the triclamps worked at the time and was thinking something had to be soldered TO the keg, which is not the case . I was just throwing out an idea that someone else proposed to see what you guys thought. That's all. Anyway....Thanks for the point about the 240v outlet. I don't have easy access to one so I will just have to go back to a pot on the stove and save the keg for outdoor use in the future like I originally intended. I had a feeling I was overlooking something and that was it.

[Prairiepiss]

+1 Bite the bullet and install an internal element. Or two. You will be glad you did. There is no other good option for your situation.

120vac can be done. And I did it for a while. See my two element harbor freight router controller thread. In the must read new distiller reading lounge. It's not fast. And not optimum for most reflux stills. But will work. And is a lot better then a crappy pot on a crappy stove.

Double boiler would be an option. But just means more stuff to pack into your apartment. And not a good option.

[Nutmegmooner]

I just ordered a 1" S.S. flange from grainger and a plug. I can now put an element into my (second) keg, or take the element out and plug it to run on propane (which I highly recommend you do not do indoors). Seems like a no brainer to me.... You're gonna love electric.

[Chroi]

do you have a gas stove?

remember, lift with your legs....

Edit. I'm not kidding. I run all manner of stills on 7.75 and 15.5 gallon kegs on a standard home gas stovetop. the kegs fit nicely on two burners. 10 gallons takes about 75 minutes to start producing. Not setting any records, but not too shabby either. Limiting factor is ceiling height.

Being in the kitchen, you're next to the sink (safe collection point and water for cooling)

Its a no brainer for me. That and I dont have 220V

[S-Cackalacky]

Nutmegmooner mentioned a plug for when you want to convert from electric back to propane. If you use a 1" welding spud or half coupling for your heating element, a 1" ss plug should thread right into it. Using two elements at 120V would be a good solution, but you will need to run them on separate electrical services. There's lots of info here on the forums about running electric elements on 120V. There are some issues that you will need to be aware of and read up on.

One caveat with using the plugs. Your couplings would need to be welded and NOT soldered. The propane flame would cause the solder to fail.

[smartypants]

do you have a gas stove?

remember, lift with your legs....

Edit. I'm not kidding. I run all manner of stills on 7.75 and 15.5 gallon kegs on a standard home gas stovetop. the kegs fit nicely on two burners. 10 gallons takes about 75 minutes to start producing. Not setting any records, but not too shabby either. Limiting factor is ceiling height.

Being in the kitchen, you're next to the sink (safe collection point and water for cooling)

Its a no brainer for me. That and I dont have 220V

Unfortunately no. Stove is electric and I can't risk damaging it by trying to lift a keg onto it anyway (I'm only 5' 3" lol) since it is rented. It's across from the sink instead of next to it too so that doesn't help much... Stupid apartment....

[T-Pee]

An electric kitchen stove won't work very well anyway due the the element cycling to maintain heat. You need a constant variable source.

tp

[Halfbaked]

You should use the dryer outlet for electric plug in and do the 220. Get you a cheap controller or build one. Use the water from the washer for the liebig.

[T-Pee]

^^ There ya go!

tp

[smartypants]

You should use the dryer outlet for electric plug in and do the 220. Get you a cheap controller or build one. Use the water from the washer for the liebig.

I don't have laundry hookups.

[Nutmegmooner]

I'll bet your stove is 220. Plan to use the barby that day.

[Chroi]

I'll bet your stove is 220. Plan to use the barby that day.

this.

[hamshine]

I'll bet your stove is 220. Plan to use the barby that day.

this.

And if you use the stove plug you won't have to lift the keg off the floor very much

[freshwaterjellyfish]

im in the same boat..im going w a SS keg and struggling w heating options..i read through "Prairey Piss'" thread- very detailed.
a propane element would be fast and cheap- but not as viable in winter months and the worry of open flame. heating elements let you "plug and play" your still anywhere-but metal working and electricity come in to play...
..."crappy stove, crappy stock pot"...no doubt, ive had enough

[Bob Loblaw]

im in the same boat..im going w a SS keg and struggling w heating options..i read through "Prairey Piss'" thread- very detailed.
a propane element would be fast and cheap- but not as viable in winter months and the worry of open flame. heating elements let you "plug and play" your still anywhere-but metal working and electricity come in to play...
..."crappy stove, crappy stock pot"...no doubt, ive had enough

Based on what I've experienced and read here, I'd have to say that once you go electric, you never go back. Add a spud to the keg and forget about a future propane burner. You can get a spud welded in for less than $50. From there you only have to screw in the element and wiring.

[Dude2008]

I ran on propane until I. Jilt the ( Jimbo controller ). I would be hard pressed to run propane again. Because of snoopy neighbors I run in my dining room with the controller plugged into the dryer plug. The electric range plug in your apt would be great for this it should be rated for 50 amps at 220 Volt. Mucho power I use a 2 inch tri clamp fitting but you use what you want as long as it seals the element. The water connections to my sink are super easy you have all the water you need with a drain right there. While you run your still use the hot condensor water to melt your sugar for the next wash.

[smartypants]

I appreciate all the responses so far. I am sure the stove outlet would be suitable if I decide to cave and cut a hole in the keg... however... it is in a tight space and I would have to pull it partially out from the wall and climb behind to plug it in. Maybe that's my only option but I don't really like it. I can just see myself getting stuck back there or bashing my head trying to climb out! LOL. I wonder if there is an extension cord that would be safe to use so I would not have to do that more than once or twice? Will have to research I guess.

Edit: Never mind that last thought. Very expensive and probably not safe

[Halfbaked]

I think you could make a jumper cord and have a plug at the top and bottom. One for still and one for stove from the same outlet. Only thing is only run one at a time. Easy peasy then you get to drink your safe likker.

[shadylane]

smartypants
Cut the keg, install a 240v 5500w element and run it on the 120V that's available.
The heat up will be slow. but once it's boiling the 1375 watts will be enough to do a run with.
Insulation on the pot and preheating the wash will speed things up.
Once your living "distilling" arrangements are better, the pot will be ready for 240v and a controller.
It would be a good idea to have a drain and fill port added to the keg at the same time it's cut for a heating element.

[Centar]

FYI...There is a way to get 240vac from 120vac outlets...All households are wired for 240vac from a center tapped transformer to give a neutral line (the center tap) and 2 120vac lines but out of phase...normally not all outlets in a household are connected to the same phase, thus you can run 1 wire from the hot from 1 outlet and another wire from the hot on another outlet (hopefully not too far away) and get 240vac at the fuse rating (usually 15 amps) giving you 240X15=3600 watts available. You just have to do some voltage checking with a meter to find the right outlets to use...

[rad14701]

FYI...There is a way to get 240vac from 120vac outlets...All households are wired for 240vac from a center tapped transformer to give a neutral line (the center tap) and 2 120vac lines but out of phase...normally not all outlets in a household are connected to the same phase, thus you can run 1 wire from the hot from 1 outlet and another wire from the hot on another outlet (hopefully not too far away) and get 240vac at the fuse rating (usually 15 amps) giving you 240X15=3600 watts available. You just have to do some voltage checking with a meter to find the right outlets to use...

Yes, this has been discussed many times here in these forums... Checking to insure that both selected outlets are on separate circuit breakers as well as being on opposite sides of the panel so they are on opposite phases is the trick... Both circuits should also be free of other electrical loads...

[Halfbaked]

If you find the hot wires and want to see if they are on the same circuit all you have to do is put a meter on them. If the wires are same is dif circuit it will give you some where from 208-256 but usually 220-240 (what ever you have when you put the meter on the 2 circuit bars in the panel). If you put them on it and it reads funny or way less then its same circuit. (its the same reading you get by putting the 2 meter wires on one circuit bars) Non the less I would rather not do that. Most newer houses receptacle wires are 14 g wire which is good for 15 amps. 15 years ago copper was cheap. Lots of houses had 20 amp circuits for receptacles which is a 12 g wire. I'm no sparky but I'd say don't try to run a 5500w element on 2-120s. Having 2 120 (15amp or 20amp) circuit doesn't make a 220 30 amps circuit (it is still 15 amps but 220). NO sparky here but 5500w, I'd run 30 amps and 10 g wire. There are way to many way to mess up your run doing this. If you do go this route I would say you really need to run a controller to control the amt of amps pulled or run an element that is compat with the circuit you are in. Hope this makes sense. Other way is run multiple 110 elements in your keg. I would feel real safe with that.

The better alt is run a jumper from the stove. You would not be messing with existing wires. The stove and the keg could be plugged in at the same time without pulling the stove out (obviously you can not run stove and still at the same time). You are in the kitchen where you have water. It would be cheap and easy and you take it with you when you leave apt or house. You could also use an electric water heater wire. If you can get to the elect panel the make you up a new circuit and leave front of panel cover off. (kids need to be out of house or a sleep)

[dirtymax731]

Just use to elements off two different breakers and you'll have enough power. I believe you only need one controller and just plug the second in for heat up.
I found a welder on Craigslist that did up my keg nice for reasonable price

[The KYChemist]

Just spit-balling an idea here... You could always look into some small dolly's, like the one I pictured. It will raise the range-top height, but you'd be able to easily slide the range in and out, providing access to the plug, and not have to do any extraneous wiring.

[superdaveva]

most electric stoves are open in the back bottom, just pull the drawer open unplug the stove and plug in your unit.done