Purifying vodka with milk

[Paulinka]

Hello Friends,

I tried to search for it but found little information here on the topic how to purify vodka to aquire a smooth drink with a very light taste profile. Please share your thoughts, innovations, or if been a related topic please link it to me.

I do not own a column yet, so the method must be pot-distilled with reasonable quality achieved in less than three re-distillation. AFAIK (and of course, I may as well be misled) that the low wines of grain-alcohol are mixed with egg-whites and milk, to bind the fusels.
Q: What can be the exact ratio?

Then it is distilled.
Q: Does the coagulant settle (with coooling?) so the cleared low-wines are syphoned off and distilled, or distilled altogether?

Q: Should it be cleared again with milk and eggwhites and redistilled? And I prefer to stay traditional, not using carbon or brita filters. My ultimate goal is to have a vodka close to Mernaya Na Moloke.

I plan to make it from straight corn, as I have a lot and even my bourbon's are nice and I like them, they don't go that well with tomato-juice as a fine vodka. I prefer Bloody Mary over a Manhattan these days, but MNM is sooo velvety smooth that it is fine on the ice too.

[bearriver]

That brands claims "milk filtered vodka". However most of what I'm finding that isn't marketing, is also not in English... Claims:

The other way to make Vodka purer has been used by Russian people for many centuries. They added some milk and some egg white to Vodka and mixed it a little. Milk and the egg white react with fusel oils that Vodka contains and form sediment. Then they distill Vodka and after that, they put rye bread in it. This way you can get almost 100% pure alcohol.

If you are just looking for buttery smooth vodka, then I've got great news for you. It sounds like you got a pot still down pat. It's not going to be hard figuring things out on a reflux still just practicing rudimentary technique. There is also no required refining to make great vodka at home. Just distill your preferred wash/mash in a reflux rig, air it out for 24hrs, and blend it with care.

Those techniques probably existed for centuries due to a lack of the refined equipment and designs available today. However it may be a way to get vodka from a pot still, without countless runs? I hope if you try your own recipe based off what you know about it that you share your results.

Good luck, keep us posted.

[Paulinka]

Thanks for the quick answer Bear River, but I still do not have a reflux rig nor a plated tower of any sorts. Well, one more reason to build one I guess.
I will post some pictures about my potstilled vodka experiments when I get there. So i will be back here in a few weeks I guess.

[FullySilenced]

Well may try the milk and egg thing on a small batch ... i got a few gallons saved back at 190 or so...

we shall see

FS

got some more working off... i can always rerun it

[NZChris]

Egg whites might pull the milk protien out, but not oils.

Non-homogenised whole milk, or cream, might pull fusels out if agitated at fairly warm temperatures for long enough. The fusels might agglomerate with the milk fat. If that worked, the fat and fusels would separate out and and be able to be chilled to get them solid, then filtered out, scooped off, or whatever works. If it worked, you should be able to taste the fusels in the solidified fat. I suggest experimenting with your nastiest feints jar.

[Galeoturpis]

The milk vodka thing is a stunt. Before carbon filtering, milk was used to make vodka but the mernaya is a luxe vodka which is already rectified (in a highly mechanised process) before the milk stage is done.
http://www.vodka-tf.com/history_of_vodka/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
I think for a home distiller to get anywhere near the quality of a commercial vodka would be difficult - maybe only redistilling hearts through a 2 meter column or chemically rectifying with washing soda/ permanganate and then maybe NaBH4 to get rid of aldehydes.

[bearriver]

Galeoturpis: Your posts have been, and continue to be hands down the most trollish I have ever seen here on the forums. Please go take the ass hat advice somewhere else before people listen to you and start throwing miscellaneous chemicals into their ferments. (Which for some reason has been the constant advice you give here). I'd be shocked if the mod's haven't warned you about this already.

Sorry to burst your bubble Galeo, but I regularly make vodka with a simple still and a simple wash using a simple process. It's not only as good as commercial vodka... It's better! No chemicals, no highly mechanized processes, no carbon filtering, and none of your frequently proposed & pointless BS.

Paulinka, I am interested to hear about your results developing a tek. NZChris offered some good ideas as well.

[Galeoturpis]

An Internet troll is defined as -One who purposely and deliberately (that purpose usually being self-amusement) starts an argument in a manner which attacks others on a forum without in any way listening to the arguments proposed by his or her peers. He will spark of such an argument via the use of ad hominem attacks (i.e. 'you're nothing but a fanboy' is a popular phrase) with no substance or relevence to back them up as well as straw man arguments, which he uses to simply avoid addressing the essence of the issue.
I certainly have different opinions about zymology to many on the forum but do listen to the arguments of others and have had many more ad hominem attacks than warranted.
If you believe that your vodka is better than commercial vodka, you should prove it by having it tested. The standards are listed in this link. http://www.vodka-tf.com/carbon_processing/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow (Sorry I haven't worked out how to post images yet). My best effort at vodka was not close at all to Russian commercial standards. The only chemicals that I have ever recommended are mentioned on the parent site. The sodium hydroboride was mentioned on the russian site but there is very little information about its safety or use.

[Paulinka]

The sodium hydroboride was mentioned on the russian site but there is very little information about its safety or use.

I do not use any chemicals (and I don't count crystallized citric acid as a chemical) in any of the drinks I make, nor in the mashing or the aging or flavoring. It is one of the huge advantages over commercial spirits, and a rule I believe why home-distilling is superior in most cases over on-the-shelf liquors.
Few days ago in a café I had a dram of an Irish whisky, which use to be good, and it was oxidated beyond measure, rendered it's taste to one-dimensional and joyless. I came to feel that even if the whiskies or gin I cook are harsh because they are young, have loads of flavour, no heads in.

I use to have a very bad hangover from beers and whisky, simply because I do not have much of that enzyme in my liver that breaks down fusels and other nasties. It is something that runs in the family, probably some genetic thing. However, I can drink EPIC amounts from my spirits without suffering those dreaded throbbing hangovers, and it is because I cut the hearts wisely, and I can do it because I do not not have the pressure of the market while I cook drinks.

Right now I make some AG mash with simple grain-bill, 66% corn and 34% rye, 9 kg altogether for 45 litres of water, and if it gives a few litres of clean vodka with the egg-white and milk clarification experiment I will be happy. My pot's lynne-arm is descending towards the pot, so with slow cooking it gives a little reflux that I will take advantage of.

Thank you for all the advices everyone, I have a 75W immersion heater so fermentation will be pretty fast on 22 Celsius, I use 6ml GA enzyme to split the starch in the aforementioned grain-weight.

[rad14701]

An Internet troll is defined as -One who purposely and deliberately (that purpose usually being self-amusement) starts an argument in a manner which attacks others on a forum without in any way listening to the arguments proposed by his or her peers. He will spark of such an argument via the use of ad hominem attacks (i.e. 'you're nothing but a fanboy' is a popular phrase) with no substance or relevence to back them up as well as straw man arguments, which he uses to simply avoid addressing the essence of the issue.
I certainly have different opinions about zymology to many on the forum but do listen to the arguments of others and have had many more ad hominem attacks than warranted.
If you believe that your vodka is better than commercial vodka, you should prove it by having it tested. The standards are listed in this link. http://www.vodka-tf.com/carbon_processing/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow (Sorry I haven't worked out how to post images yet). My best effort at vodka was not close at all to Russian commercial standards. The only chemicals that I have ever recommended are mentioned on the parent site. The sodium hydroboride was mentioned on the russian site but there is very little information about its safety or use.

We also consider it trolling when a member shares unsubstantiated methods or unsafe practices... You fall into both categories, and probably more...

Have you checked out the MSDS for sodium hydroboride, by chance...??? It surely isn't a chemical that your average home distiller should be playing with... It isn't even reactive for our purposes at room temperature...

Just because you saw something about it on a Russian site doesn't make it alright to use... We've seen some pretty questionable techniques that the Russians practice and some are downright scary... Now, quit with the worrying about whether our spirits are crisp, clean, and safe to drink... We go far further than commercial distilleries as far as removing less than desirable components from our spirits...

Heck, if you haven't got enough common sense to figure out how to post a picture with 53 posts, what makes you think anyone is going to be able to trust anything technical that you post...???

And, remember, this is a hobby scale home distillation site, not an experimental laboratory site, so lay off the chemical jargon... We don't need someone burning up their insides and potentially dying because you only know enough to be dangerous...

[Bagasso]

I do not use any chemicals (and I don't count crystallized citric acid as a chemical) in any of the drinks I make,

Well that's convenient.

Truth is, everything in this world is made up of "chemicals".

maybe only redistilling hearts

Yeah, that is why a ton of distillates labeled "Vodka" have noticable heads and/or tails.

[moosemilk]

Hey paulinka, your grain bill of 66% corn and 34% rye...i assuming malted rye? It's very similar to what I use for my AG whiskey. Occasionally add some barley for a flavor change, but I love that sweet corn with the bit of rye flavor. Why would you ever want to turn that to a neutral? Lol. I know, each has a preference. Just had to post.

Also, many thanks for your extensive posts over in your paulinka thread. A girl I know from Hungary who lives here is heading home for Christmas, and her father makes it so she is bringing me back a taste. What would you suggest to send with her to give as a gift from here? I do make rum and whiskey. And my first apple brandy is ready to hit the still...only 5 gallon wash, bad year for apples in my part of the globe. but your posts on Palinka were very helpful in this! Thank you!

[Galeoturpis]

1) the sodium tetrahydroborate is a thought bubble from me. I've not used it, don't advocate it but thought a chemist online might have some experience with it. From my reading, it's plenty reactive (enough to cause death by air embolism if ingested neat)!
2) I agree with rad14701 when he says that the all grain home distilled products are to a higher standard than commercial distillers but that's not the situation with good vodka. Their quality parameters of low esters / fumarol etc. are equivalent to 600 distillations. The summary of advice about heads and tails is either1) enjoy them - take proper cuts and throw away the unpalatable alcohol or 2) ignore them. However they can be gotten rid of and I am trying to think laterally.
3) I also want to congratulate Paulinka on his wonderful, fascinating submissions. They have been extremely educational and motivating me to try distilling pelinkovic or at least buying some middle European fruit brandy. Each of his submissions has been thought provoking.
4) although it's more "chemical advice" - if you have a problem with hangovers, it's often the acetaldehyde that the liver can't metabolise that's a large part of the problem. 1g of n-acetyl cysteine (purchased on the Internet) taken per-imbibement has lessened quite a few heAdaches for me.

[Paulinka]

Why would you ever want to turn that to a neutral? Lol.

Absolutely scored in the middle of a dilemma. This is the first time I used backset in an AG, and maaan it smells goood, it would be a huge waste to make a neutral from it.
Anyway, I will make a tight cut and use the feints for the traditional clearing experiment.

I do make rum and whiskey.

I'm sure both would make a wonderful and interesting gift, one that would be tasted with friends. People here love homedistilled liquors made on faraway lands, fi. date-shine (arrak), shochu and everything that is unusual is most welcomed. We are quite adventorous in tasting spirits, when the first Chinese restaurants came to Hungary (about 15 years ago) people were first to try snake-brandies, it was a great object of talk. And the sweet, sweet taste of untaxed liquors, really adds a dimension.

[NZChris]

Tried cream. Took nasty tasting fat off yesterday leaving a protein haze behind. In a test tube with a squeeze of lemon juice added the protein has coagulated and is settling out leaving clear likker.

[Bagasso]

Tried cream. Took nasty tasting fat off yesterday leaving a protein haze behind. In a test tube with a squeeze of lemon juice added the protein has coagulated and is settling out leaving clear likker.

What's the smell like?

[bearriver]

Has me wondering how/if homogenized milk will have different results than raw milk...?

Gonna have to let a few people try this before me.

[Galeoturpis]

I've been thinking about the sodium hydroboride and realize that it's pointless. If you have a litre of 95% alcohol - that's still got 50 ml of water in it so adding the nabh4 would just mean that there is a lot of fizzing and creation of hydrogen gas and no reaction with the aldehydes. Adding 50 g of the stuff and bubbling the h2 off with an airlock would be more more expensive than the finest vodka. Probably the purest vodka a home distiller can make would involve a genetically modified yeast that doesn't produce esters, good cuts And cArbon filtering of the fusels. Well until cheap rectifying machines come Along.

[NZChris]

I've been thinking about the sodium hydroboride and realize that it's pointless. If you have a litre of 95% alcohol - that's still got 50 ml of water in it so adding the nabh4 would just mean that there is a lot of fizzing and creation of hydrogen gas and no reaction with the aldehydes. Adding 50 g of the stuff and bubbling the h2 off with an airlock would be more more expensive than the finest vodka. Probably the purest vodka a home distiller can make would involve a genetically modified yeast that doesn't produce esters, good cuts And cArbon filtering of the fusels. Well until cheap rectifying machines come Along.

Are you confusing nice drinkable vodka with straight, flavorless, boring old alcohol, with no redeeming features other than something to get drunk on, or to run your lawnmower?

[bearriver]

Galeotrupis, your nonsense off topic chemical ranting belongs in a different thread. Preferably one that you started yourself. Got it...??? Yet...????

I'm done responding to this particular member's posts...

[Galeoturpis]

Vodka has a definition according to EU law.
(1) Ethyl alcohol of agricultural origin
Ethyl alcohol of agricultural origin possesses the following properties:
(a) organoleptic characteristics: no detectable taste other than that of the raw material;
(b) minimum alcoholic strength by volume: 96,0 %;
(c) maximum level of residues:
(i) total acidity, expressed in grams of acetic acid per hectolitre of 100 % vol. alcohol: 1,5,
(ii) esters expressed in grams of ethyl acetate per hectolitre of 100 % vol. alcohol: 1,3,
(iii) aldehydes expressed in grams of acetaldehyde per hectolitre of 100 % vol. alcohol: 0,5,
(iv) higher alcohols expressed in grams of methyl2 propanol1 per hectolitre of 100 % vol. alcohol: 0,5,
(v) methanol expressed in grams per hectolitre of 100 % vol. alcohol: 30,
(vi) dry extract expressed in grams per hectolitre of 100 % vol. alcohol: 1,5,
(vii) volatile bases containing nitrogen expressed in grams of nitrogen per hectolitre of 100 % vol. alcohol: 0,1,
(viii) furfural: not detectable.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 120:EN:PDF" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
My product is not even close. I had to post on this thread about the "chemicals" because this is where I brought it up and had to shoot down my thought bubble. I was reminded of rectified spirit because in Australian news this week an 18 year old girl died after having one shot of 95% polish rectified spirit and now 95% spirit has been taken off the shelves in all major retailers!

[NZChris]

What have you done on this subject so far Galeoturpis? My trial is clarified using milk fat to extract fusels and lemon juice to coagulate protein and is ready to distil while you're rabbiting on about EU law, as if that has something to do with moonshiners making themselves a nice tipple.

[Galeoturpis]

Home distillers can't make vodka. Whilst they can make superior rum and whiskeys compared to commercial distilleries and the vodka of 130 years ago, they can only make an inferior vodka (according to the 2014 definition). It's an objective standard that can be proven.

[Tokoroa_Shiner]

^^^ this guy. Wtf?

[bearriver]

^^^ this guy.

Galeo might just be another disgruntled member who has returned under a fresh handle to disrupt the boards. He wouldn't be the first to do so.

I've been dumb enough to keep feeding the troll since it got here. Best to just ignore him. He won't last long anyways.

[Bagasso]

(a) organoleptic characteristics: no detectable taste "other than that of the raw material";

Not exactly the odorless flavorless drink you seem to have in mind.

My product is not even close.

Have you had it tested?

@NZChris: What where the results of your experiment with cream?

[bearriver]

Chris said it's ready to distill, meaning he hasn't ran it yet.

[Bagasso]

Chris said it's ready to distill, meaning he hasn't ran it yet.

Sorry, missed that.

[NZChris]

Home distillers can't make vodka. Whilst they can make superior rum and whiskeys compared to commercial distilleries and the vodka of 130 years ago, they can only make an inferior vodka (according to the 2014 definition). It's an objective standard that can be proven.

All that definition means, is that we can't sell our product labeled as vodka according to that definition, but as home distillers, we can't sell it anyway. We can make it out of whatever we want, run it any way we want, flavor it as much as we want, call it whatever we want and raise a finger to lawmakers and w*****s who aren't happy about it.

[rad14701]

Yet another topic left in shambles after yet another worthless espousal by Galeoturpis... Thanks for that - NOT...!!!