How to carbon Filter

[roberto188]

So I have built a carbon filter tube out of PVC pipe (Running vodka from my sugar wash through it). In order to properly filter via a carbon tube is to load the tube with carbon and fill the system with water and just before the water level falls to expose the carbon, put the alcohol in. Then follow the alcohol with some water to flush all the alcohol out. My question is, if the carbon filtering is supposed to take place at around 40-50% ABV (this increases the affectiveness), doesn't running water before and after filtration GREATLY reducing the final ABV of ht filtered booze? What are the exact prodecures for this. Seems odd to me.

Please do not talk to me about how a carbon filter is not needed. I have a 2" 1.5m reflux column packed with SS scrubbers. I've stripped the wash, and distilled it twice at 1:10 reflux with tight cuts. The flavor is about as clean as it gets, but it still has residual "sugar" aroma which i'm looking to get rid of (our noses are FAR more sensitive then our pallets). So please only constructive information about how to carbon filter. Thanks in advance!

[Bushman]

OK, I will not go into the use of the pvc pipe with high abv alcohol you are using! Have you seen this pdf, should have some very good info.
http://homedistiller.org/activated_book1.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[Tokoroa_Shiner]

As far as I am aware, that "sugar" aroma, is ethanol. Pure ethanol has a very sweet smell, and carbon filtering and redistilling will only make the smell/taste more pronounced.

[bearriver]

Bushman posted a good link. Carbon filtering is only necessary to remove the color from aged rum, to make it a "silver" rum. However that is a small niche that I haven't seen one member doing.

Please do not talk to me about how a carbon filter is not needed. !

You seem to think that you know something that we don't... Would you mind sharing what that is?

So I have built a carbon filter tube out of PVC pipe (Running vodka from my sugar wash through it).

You obviously ignored the big red letters on the index page stating "A MUST READ FORUM " , which is where you would have quickly found the forum rules.

8. These forums take a very strong negative view on the usage of plastics and synthetics in distilling. It simply is not safe to use in any area of hobby distilling (however HPDE buckets are acceptable for fermentation.) There simply are too many types of plastics and lack of reliable information about plastics, for us to reliably advocate their use anywhere in the distillation apparatus. Also, from past posting history, this topic seems to quickly boil down into an almost religious flame war. Thus we simply will not put up with it, and posts about any form of plastic use will be edited, deleted or locked. There is a forum for proven info for or against any material (material/safety.)

Good luck

[rad14701]

I see this as a topic that can be closed and buried... Nothing to learn here... Aside from how NOT to carbon filter, that is...

[roberto188]

Thank you for all the input. And yes I have read the PDF, but it's not quite clear on the exact procedure and how chasing/charging the filter tube with would dilute the final product.

The homedistiller.org polish page talks about aging on uncharred oak and then carbon filter to remove the "sugar wash" aroma from vodka. Is this not accurate?

It also shows a schematic of a PVC tube used for carbon filtering. I know I know, don't use PVC, but the alcohol will not be at full 95% proof and it will be in contact for such a short period, I'm willing to give this cheap rig a quick go. If it ends up flavoring the final product I will switch it out to something else.

Back to my original question, does anyone actually have some more detailed advice on the filtering procedure?

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

Back to my original question, does anyone actually have some more detailed advice on the filtering procedure?

NO.

[Bagasso]

Thank you for all the input. And yes I have read the PDF, but it's not quite clear on the exact procedure and how chasing/charging the filter tube with would dilute the final product.

It just does but it is a loss that people using carbon accept.

The homedistiller.org polish page talks about aging on uncharred oak and then carbon filter to remove the "sugar wash" aroma from vodka. Is this not accurate?

I think they mean the congeners that develop in the distillate when doing a sugar wash and not something particularly sugary or sweet.

It also shows a schematic of a PVC tube used for carbon filtering. I know I know, don't use PVC, but the alcohol will not be at full 95% proof and it will be in contact for such a short period, I'm willing to give this cheap rig a quick go. If it ends up flavoring the final product I will switch it out to something else.

The parent site is outdated but can't be edited by the mods.

Back to my original question, does anyone actually have some more detailed advice on the filtering procedure?

The PDF linked above is pretty much it.

[roberto188]

Ok so I just went ahead and used the filter. Worked like a charm. Loaded a 5 ft tall 2" PVC tube with 2 1.7L bags of activated carbon from brewhaus. Ran 2 gallons of water through it, and followed by 2.5 liters of 50% ABV spirit. Ended up collecting the final filtered distillate at 40%. I appears that it stays pretty well stratified inside the filter. Only the very beginning and very end were diluted, but when it was all collected and combine, it came out a perfect 40% ABV with NO AROMA at all. Very happy and satisfied.

[bearriver]

I see this as a topic that can be closed and buried... Nothing to learn here... Aside from how NOT to carbon filter, that is...

The wrong materials, the wrong procedure. This belongs in the "what not to use" forum.

[rad14701]

Ok so I just went ahead and used the filter. Worked like a charm. Loaded a 5 ft tall 2" PVC tube with 2 1.7L bags of activated carbon from brewhaus. Ran 2 gallons of water through it, and followed by 2.5 liters of 50% ABV spirit. Ended up collecting the final filtered distillate at 40%. I appears that it stays pretty well stratified inside the filter. Only the very beginning and very end were diluted, but when it was all collected and combine, it came out a perfect 40% ABV with NO AROMA at all. Very happy and satisfied.

So you never got the hint from posts here or The Rules We Live By regarding synthetics...??? PVC is not alcohol safe and therefore should not come into contact with your spirits... This is a safety issue that we take very seriously here... Scrap the PVC... If you think you absolutely have to filter your spirits then use copper or stainless steel for your filter housing... Hope that makes it clear enough...

[Bagasso]

Very happy and satisfied.

Glad that it worked for you. I pesonally wouldn't use PVC but I have also had batches where carbon was the right tool for the job.

[roberto188]

"The wrong materials, the wrong procedure."

Not to be rude, but my original post was for a detailed procedure. no such help was afforded. And now you say wrong procedure? If so, elaborate rather than just dismissing it. And in regards to PVC, i will soon make it out of something else, the PVC was a first go around to get the procedure down and to see if it was even worth the trouble. I have found it out is, and will soon replace it. Also, do you have some specific information about PVC with 50% ethanol in contact for no less than 10 minutes. I find it VERY hard to believe there would be an legitimate health issues.

Bagasso. Thanks. I think the carbon filtering is a simple final touch that really makes the difference.

[T-Pee]

Mods PLEASE put this thread out of our misery.

tp

[Bagasso]

Mods PLEASE put this thread out of our misery.

I'm sure it will fade on it's own but, just out of curiosity, what's wrong with it?

He said it was a proof of concept design and that the materials will be changed.

[ShineRunnah]

Proper materials would normally be copper or stainless steel, and maybe glass for this application.

If I were to make such a filter, I'd personally use SS.

As for specifics on how to filter, I can't help ya, as I only filter my water. Sorry.

[shadylane]

Before this is locked, here's my 2 cents worth on carbon filtering.
If your after a clean neutral.
Carbon filter the low-wines from stripping runs.
Then dilute with water and do a spirit or reflux run.

[Galeoturpis]

Activated carbon is good at getting rid of Fusel oils but not so good at getting rid of esters. Indeed activated carbon increases the oxidation of ethanol to make more aldehyde and acetal (which has a pungent aroma).
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=nmm ... ol&f=false" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
So your product should really be redistiled after carbon filtration with removal of some of the new heads that the carbon forms. But I don't know how much is formed.

[roberto188]

Before this is locked, here's my 2 cents worth on carbon filtering.
If your after a clean neutral.
Carbon filter the low-wines from stripping runs.
Then dilute with water and do a spirit or reflux run.


Oh I like that idea! I will try that and report back.

[Bagasso]

According to the filtering guide posted above, carbon works better when the ABV is low so maybe dilute low wines before both filtering and running.

I saw someone in another thread also recommend chilling before filtering.

[roberto188]

Yes my low wines come off at about 60% mostly. i will dillute to 30% before running it through. You guys did make a good point, while the carbon filter certainly took away the "aroma" of my mash, it did seem to make it slightly less smooth. My hopes is that filtering the low wines as mentioned will remove the "wash aroma" and then yeild the same smooth taste I had before. Hopefully I'm not too busy this weekend I can try this out.

[roberto188]

Ok, so I ran my low wines (Smelled like Chelac!) through the Carbon filter and threw them back in for reflux distillation this weekend. We'll see how it comes out.

With that being said, just running my still with no reflux and carbon filtering actually yielded a pretty drinkable vodka, no off aroma and decent taste. A bit "tough" not very smooth, but I would say very "clean" tasting. I really am very impressed how effective carbon filtering is in removing the nasties. I think If I am inclined to make a lot of vodka for mixing I may just run my still with no reflux and carbon filter. DEFINITELY good enough for mixing. I will be interested to see what the reflux distillation of this stuff produces though. I'm hoping something quite a bit smoother.

Thanks everyone for the help.

[CH3CH2OH]

If you want a bunch of information on carbon filtering here is a text with all you would want to know. The is a lot of science behind its use.

http://aussiedistiller.com.au/books/Cho ... %20al.,%20(Elsevier,%202006" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow)%20WW.pdf

If you do it correctly, using the proper carbon created for alcohol purification that is activated with the proper method and has the correct mesh size and sufficient volume for interaction for the correct minimum amount of time it will 100% improve your product. If you use aquarium carbon or carbon used for air filtration, you will not get the same result.

Proper carbon filtering will make great neutral even better and it will also polish a turd. But remember, a turd will always be a turd. Make tight cuts, don't be greedy and if you choose to, use carbon to take your spirit up a notch.

[shadylane]

Tried an experiment using carbon filtering.
Filter was made from 6 1/2 feet of 1 1/2 inch copper.
A piece of SS screen was stuffed in the bottom of the filter column and cap with a 1/4 inch hole was put on.
The idea being to keep the shine from flowing through the filter too fast.

The carbon was bought from a brewing supply store, about 10 years ago.
And had been used a time or two, so it was boiled, rinsed and dried.
Then the carbon was put in the filter and water was poured in after it, to wet the carbon.

The low wines to be filtered were 30% abv and diluted with water to 20%
Ran it through the filter and then distilled in a 2-1/2 packed CM column.
Deciding were to make the cuts was a little bit difficult since,
the filtering and reflux distilling had removed almost all the flavor and smell.
The final product was very clean tasting, My partner in the experiment was very proud of it.
Personally, I don't like neutral spirits.

[CH3CH2OH]

You would get better results filtering the final product rather than the low wines.

Think of the carbon like what it is, a filter. If you filter the low wines, the pores of the carbon get clogged with a lot of stuff that wont be in your final product anyway. It will help some but the results will be much better if you filter the final spirit. I have read many articles on the process and have found that the cocensus is the best result is achieved around 55% ABV. Do exactly as you did above, try using a valve on the bottom of the pipe to allow the product to steadily drip out rather than flow. The carbon takes time to react with the spirit and remove the unwanted nasties and off flavors but it needs to have a slow flow past the carbon particles to work properly. Filter through a coffee filter to remove any carbon residue that might come through. Judge your cuts by the flavor, or sting you get on your lips, the smoothness or sharpness etc and cut that way.

[roberto188]

The results are in. I have 5 different batches:

1) Beer stripped, reflux run
2) Beer stripped, reflux fun then carbon filtered
3) Beer stripped, carbon filtered
4) Beer stripped, carbon filtered, reflux run
5) Beer stripped, carbon filtered, reflux run, carbon filtered

Number 4 was by far the best with 5 coming in a close second. To be honest the difference between 4 & 5 is probably negligible, but i THINK i could taste a bit more of a biting aftertaste with number 5. The interesting part about doing the reflux run on 4 and 5 is that their was still a tiny amount of heads, but there was virtually NO tails to speak of. As my boiler decreased in %alcohol I increased the reflux rate, but I was able to collect all the way up to 40% abv coming off the still (usually 95%) and still couldn't detect ANY tails, it was just more watered down. The activated carbon really does work VERY well.

A comment on number 3: The initial beer stripped distillate smelt like shellac and stated like polyurethane. After carbon filtering, it was actually not totally terrible. The shellac flavor and polyurethane taste was gone, it was "neutral" by all means, but was in no way shape or form "smooth". It tasted like cheap vodka.
Number 2 was a close 3rd, had a bit more after bit then 5 and 4 and had a tiny sugar aroma as it was made from a sugar wash.


Conclusion: I will now carbon filter all my beer stripped vodka then do a reflux run as usual to produce some really nice stuff.

PS. I have since boiled my dirty carbon and baked it on a grill and man-o-man can you smell the AWFUL nasties that get steamed off during this process. It really is proof of all the "junk" that the active carbon can take out.

[cob]

just to be clear, are you still consuming alcohol from a PVC pipe ?

[roberto188]

As mentioned. Proof of concept. Stainless filter under construction.

[Prairiepiss]

Ever thought about maybe using a better recipe? So maybe you didn't need to go through all this crap to get a good drop?

[Bagasso]

Ever thought about maybe using a better recipe? So maybe you didn't need to go through all this crap to get a good drop?

Agree on working on a better recipe but to me babysitting a still is a lot crappier than filtering.

Why does that seem to bother certain members?