Pressure Cookers

[ShineRunnah]

If you're making a still with a big enough column for weight to be a concern, take the $65+ you'd spend on a SS pressure cooker and buy a good stock pot, not the cheapest POS Walmart sells, or buy a friggin keg.

If you can afford a SS pressure cooker, you can most likely afford a $50 quarter keg from a scrap yard, eBay or wherever, and end up 1000x better off in the end.

[Ludwig404]

Just for fun, looking into whether braided pfte rope discussed elsewhere on this forum can be fashioned into a replacement for the rubber gasket. I foresee some issues, but we'll see.

[W Pappy]

Just for fun, looking into whether braided pfte rope discussed elsewhere on this forum can be fashioned into a replacement for the rubber gasket. I foresee some issues, but we'll see.

I made the post on the rope you are talkin about, got side tracked with other priority's and ain't put that into motion yet.Soon though gettin to be that time.

[Ludwig404]

I meant ptfe of course - don't know why I keep screwing that up. But I ordered a hunk, and already have a stainless pressure cooker so we'll see how it goes.

[Truckinbutch]

I meant ptfe of course - don't know why I keep screwing that up. But I ordered a hunk, and already have a stainless pressure cooker so we'll see how it goes.

It should do well . Stillin you are never approaching the pressures required to can food (I hope). Twisted ptfe tape or cotton cord with a little thin flour paste should do the same thing .

[JohnDrake]

Oh boy. Being the newer guy here, I just posted (in the Welcome section) about finding an old still that I had concerns about regarding corrosion and leaks. Then someone mentioned that since it is old, I should not buy it because there might be lead in the solder.

My eyes are red from reading and not bleeding yet as was suggested, but if aluminum won't distill out of a an aluminum vessel, why should I be worried about solder with lead in it? After all, the pot will be dry until I add liquid, and the liquid will only be in contact with the solder as long as it takes to remove the product.

Am I missing something?

Thanks,

JohnDrake

[rad14701]

Oh boy. Being the newer guy here, I just posted (in the Welcome section) about finding an old still that I had concerns about regarding corrosion and leaks. Then someone mentioned that since it is old, I should not buy it because there might be lead in the solder.

My eyes are red from reading and not bleeding yet as was suggested, but if aluminum won't distill out of a an aluminum vessel, why should I be worried about solder with lead in it? After all, the pot will be dry until I add liquid, and the liquid will only be in contact with the solder as long as it takes to remove the product.

Am I missing something?

Thanks,

JohnDrake

You're missing a lot... Safety... Safety... Safety...

No aluminum... No Lead... And old brass also contains a lot of lead...

Please refer to Rule #8 of The Rules We Live By... They're named that way for good reason... We don't have a set of rules to die by...

[bearriver]

Can anyone provide a link to some sort of respected authority on the subject of pressure cooker gaskets leaching dangerous chemicals into the distillation process? Assuming one intended to use a stainless steel pressure cooker with a gasket that has been FDA approved for use with acidic thinks like fruits and tomatoes, is there any real authority that says "danger, danger, do not use to make spirits!"?

I don't even know where to start... The logic driving this question is udder nonsense.

[ShineRunnah]

Can anyone provide a link to some sort of respected authority on the subject of pressure cooker gaskets leaching dangerous chemicals into the distillation process? Assuming one intended to use a stainless steel pressure cooker with a gasket that has been FDA approved for use with acidic thinks like fruits and tomatoes, is there any real authority that says "danger, danger, do not use to make spirits!"?

The seals currently used are neoprene, silicone, nitrile and EPDM. None of them are unaffected by acetone according to my research, never mind hot acetone vapor! Look it up.

Something tells me you like to find everything out the hard way...

Just an FYI, this forum is a pretty well respected authority on hobby distillation. Kinda why most come here, to learn and share information.

[thecroweater]

Guys,guys I'm sure there are two dozen ways to make a stainless steel pressure cooker safe to use but why would you , its to small in most cases and there are easier cheaper ways to go. As for aluminium not coming through I wouldn't bet on that, i heard about zinc coming through a still that was the result of zinc spray on wheat. What is this on going interest in pressure cookers about, stills are not to be under pressure anyhow. Damned if I know

[S-Cackalacky]

Might just be a matter of pride. You go to Youtube and see all these self described experts making itty bitty stills with pressure cookers and you build one. And wow, it actually makes some liquor and you feel a sense of pride in that accomplishment. So, you come here and the first thing that happens is someone (or many) jump in your shit for using a pressure cooker. That sense of pride takes over your sense of reason and you stand firm in your defense of the great still you built with your own hands.

I suspect that one day this thread will exceed the post count of the UJSSM recipe. I propose that someone who is a proponent of aluminum pressure cookers put forth the data that proves beyond a doubt that it is safe to use. The forum has its position - prove yours.

[Danespirit]

I guess we chew that rubber gasket thing to the point were we all can conclude..it does NOT do any good!
For the aluminium:
I have been a blacksmith/machinist for over 25 years and i came across very different materials and alloys in that time.
Some of the aluminium alloys even contain lead to do them more mallable or to reduce wear and tear on the tools.
True enough this does not relate to pressurecockers, as the alloy of course wouldn't contain any lead.
Anyway you can easily imagine why it's a bad idea even to make a boiler connection out of AL , yet it might be tempting as it is really easy to work with.
Also aluminium does change to aluminium oxide in a acid environment (done it many times as i was etching material).
There are acids produced by your still, that would take similar effect on any AL in contact with it.
Now don't take my word for it..if you want a scientific angle of incidence about this subject read the PDF files attached.
This explains very detailed what alcohol does to aluminium, and should be valid for any aluminium alloy.
We are totaly leaving the fact that there are a lot more organic compounds produced in your still than just plain ethyl alcohol.
Those compounds again have a effect on AL by their presence in your boiler charge, covering that subject will be to complex.
Edit : Now i think it would be clear to everyone, why this forum has a very negative view on unsafe materials. Please stay safe and enjoy this hobby for many years to come.

1433.pdf

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80506154.pdf

(509.97 KiB) Downloaded 252 times

[Ludwig404]

No aluminum or rubber! My little stainless pressure cooker now has a ptfe rope gasket in place of the rubber one it came with (that took more than a little jury rigging and playing around!). I removed the safety pressure blowout in the lid, enlarged the hole and put in a chrome-plated compression fitting that connects to a 3/8" x 20' copper worm in a 5-gallon bucket. Did a cleaning run with vinegar/water, no problems or leaks, then a rinsing run with distilled water, also no problems. Doing a sacrificial run right now with cheap box wine. All seems well. We'll see how it goes after that. I don't expect to use it long before I move on to something bigger, but it seems a definite improvement on the air still I started out with (even the capacity is bigger at 6qt as opposed to 4L).

Total investment (the old pressure cooker was free) is under $50 and, lets say, "several" hours of work. I'm certainly not saying it's worth all the time it took or that there aren't better beginner stills. I just wanted to see if the problems with a pressure cooker could be overcome if someone really wanted to.

[Ludwig404]

Can anyone provide a link to some sort of respected authority on the subject of pressure cooker gaskets leaching dangerous chemicals into the distillation process? Assuming one intended to use a stainless steel pressure cooker with a gasket that has been FDA approved for use with acidic thinks like fruits and tomatoes, is there any real authority that says "danger, danger, do not use to make spirits!"?

The seals currently used are neoprene, silicone, nitrile and EPDM. None of them are unaffected by acetone according to my research, never mind hot acetone vapor! Look it up.

Something tells me you like to find everything out the hard way...

Just an FYI, this forum is a pretty well respected authority on hobby distillation. Kinda why most come here, to learn and share information.

I did look it up and didn't find anything definitive, which led to my first post.
I guess you could say I'm somewhat skeptical of what I read on forums like this one. Trust but verify - that sort of thing. But no, I'm not one who insists on touching the stove to confirm its hot.
I agree about this forum being well-respected. That's why, if you read my subsequent posts you will see I accepted the repeated assertions that the stock rubber gasket may not be safe, and as a precaution fashioned one out of ptfe.
I'm not sure why you felt the need to make your criticism of my first post personal. It was a little better than the guy who thinks "udder" and "utter" are interchangeable, but not much. I don't see how sneering at someone advances any of the goals of this forum as I understand them. I'm here to learn - why are you here?

[W Pappy]

A ignorant person has no clue and will sit and learn. A stupid person has been taught and corrected and still refuses to learn and will argue.

[bearriver]

I don't recall chrome plated fittings being advised by anyone in building a still... Ever... How do some people walk through this world learning everything the hardest way possible?

I guess you could say I'm somewhat skeptical of what I read on forums like this one. Trust but verify - that sort of thing. But no, I'm not one who insists on touching the stove to confirm its hot.

Yeah... Armed only with an opinion, you don't trust safety advise and think that is somehow a healthy skepticism.. In what twisted version of reality does that make any sense?

[Ludwig404]

I don't recall chrome plated fittings being advised by anyone in building a still... Ever... How do some people walk through this world learning everything the hardest way possible?

I guess you could say I'm somewhat skeptical of what I read on forums like this one. Trust but verify - that sort of thing. But no, I'm not one who insists on touching the stove to confirm its hot.

Yeah... Armed only with an opinion, you don't trust safety advise and think that is somehow a healthy skepticism.. In what twisted version of reality does that make any sense?

Read what you want, and disregard the rest, huh? Tell me how that works out for you Then read the rest of my post.

What makes stainless steel stainless? Wait for it...the chrome content! It's more or less impervious to solvents, including (wait for it)...acetone and ethanol!

Again, I'm posting on the novice area because I want to learn. Other than an opportunity to sneer at people who you think - rightly or wrongly - know less than you, why are you bothering to post here? It's clearly not to advance the craft or encourage learning.

[ShineRunnah]

Can anyone provide a link to some sort of respected authority on the subject of pressure cooker gaskets leaching dangerous chemicals into the distillation process? Assuming one intended to use a stainless steel pressure cooker with a gasket that has been FDA approved for use with acidic thinks like fruits and tomatoes, is there any real authority that says "danger, danger, do not use to make spirits!"?

The seals currently used are neoprene, silicone, nitrile and EPDM. None of them are unaffected by acetone according to my research, never mind hot acetone vapor! Look it up.

Something tells me you like to find everything out the hard way...

Just an FYI, this forum is a pretty well respected authority on hobby distillation. Kinda why most come here, to learn and share information.

I did look it up and didn't find anything definitive, which led to my first post.
I guess you could say I'm somewhat skeptical of what I read on forums like this one. Trust but verify - that sort of thing. But no, I'm not one who insists on touching the stove to confirm its hot.
I agree about this forum being well-respected. That's why, if you read my subsequent posts you will see I accepted the repeated assertions that the stock rubber gasket may not be safe, and as a precaution fashioned one out of ptfe.
I'm not sure why you felt the need to make your criticism of my first post personal. It was a little better than the guy who thinks "udder" and "utter" are interchangeable, but not much. I don't see how sneering at someone advances any of the goals of this forum as I understand them. I'm here to learn - why are you here?

Trying to justify the use of a pressure cooker as a still is like trying to justify using sandpaper to wipe your ass. It can be done, but there are certainly better ways to go about it.

[bearriver]

I have not only read your entire post in context, I have read ALL of your contributions here.

Personally, I couldn't possibly care less about what you do in your own home. However, the level of safety promoted here is the most trustworthy set of ideals a distiller can adhere to. This isn't an argument. Im simply the first one to take the time telling you how it is. We have a rigid way of doing things. (Hint: See the rules we live by) If you dont like it, there are other forums that would be glad to have you and your skepticism of our universal safety concerns.

[Truckinbutch]

I have not only read your entire post in context, I have read ALL of your contributions here.

Personally, I couldn't possibly care less about what you do in your own home. However, the level of safety promoted here is the most trustworthy set of ideals a distiller can adhere to. This isn't an argument. Im simply the first one to take the time telling you how it is. We have a rigid way of doing things. (Hint: See the rules we live by) If you dont like it, there are other forums that would be glad to have you and your skepticism of our universal safety concerns.

Well put .

[thecroweater]

A quote reportedly from EG's father " Good , Cheap, Fast " now pick two

[Ludwig404]

bearriver: You may have read what I have posted, but you give no indication of having understood it. At what point have I disregarded the universal safety concerns to which you refer? The criticism/ban of pressure cookers appears to be based on the assumption they are aluminum and/or use rubber/silicon/nitrile/butyl gaskets. I accepted the proposition that those materials are unsafe for ethanol distillation and I used a stainless steel pressure cooker with a ptfe gasket and a chrome-plated compression fitting (rather than an unplated one with or without lead content) to connect to a copper worm. I did it to see if a stainless pressure cooker could be adapted to be safe to use under the rules of this site, which I assume to be based on sound experience. At no point did I recommend what I was doing to others or attempt in any way to contradict any warnings found here. Your attack on my postings has been based on inferences that you simply cannot logically or factually draw from what I said. I am open to any authority you have for your position, which appears to be that what I built is less safe than an old beer keg with a copper tube soldered to the top. It would be great if I could get a critique based on the information available on this site, but as I have tried to suggest, an open-minded approach accepts information from any reliable source. I have said I am here to learn - or did you miss that, too?

[Tokoroa_Shiner]

Pressure cooker = too small
3/8 copper = too small
Crome plated fitting = probably brass full of lead. Plated so that it can be used for potable water and look pretty. What happens when you scratch it taking your still apart?

Of course you already know all this having read all of the new distillers reading lounge. So why argue with people that have been doing this for a lot longer? Rules are set here for a reason. If you get pulled over doing 55 in a 50 zone, do you argue with the cop as to why there is even a speed limit? Or why you can't just go and kill someone? I doubt it. So then why do it here?

[myles]

It is VERY difficult to find a stainless steel comercially sized pressure cooker, that would be a serious contender against a 50 litre keg or milk can.

You could build one based on a 5 gallon canner, but to be honest it would be expensive. This whole issue of stainless pressure cookers should be relegated to the back of you memory just in case.

1 day you might be at an auction and see a 100 litre, commercial, stainless pressure boiler or steamer, and put in a bid. Anything smaller and yes you CAN do it - but there are better options available.

[Ludwig404]

Just FYI, per the National Institute of Health (NIH):
"Chromium is a mineral that humans require in trace amounts, although its mechanisms of action in the body and the amounts needed for optimal health are not well defined. It is found primarily in two forms: 1) trivalent (chromium 3+), which is biologically active and found in food, and 2) hexavalent (chromium 6+), a toxic form that results from industrial pollution."
Going further:
"Hexavalent chromium can be formed when performing "hot work" such as welding on stainless steel or melting chromium metal. In these situations the chromium is not originally hexavalent, but the high temperatures involved in the process result in oxidation that converts the chromium to a hexavalent state."(29 CFR OSHA General Industry 1910)
I haven't found anything yet that indicates that chromium becomes hexavalent at 212 degrees F in the presence of acetone, methanol or ethanol, but this is not my are of expertise and I stand ready, willing and able to be corrected if someone out there can do so. I note that stainless steel, which is an alloy of iron, nickel and chromium, does not release hexavalent chromium at those temperatures, but as I say, I'm no expert and it may be that the process of forming the alloy stabilizes or protects the chromium from becoming hexavalent.

[ShineRunnah]

I believe the concern on the fitting was the brass may contain lead. Nobody is debating chrome but you. However, if the areas in contact with vapor are plated, my concern would be with the cheap plating peeling off, and I'm not looking to make "Chrome Schlager". Not to mention it's probably made in China and who knows what is contained in that plating. They've been known to put lead paint on toys, so my faith in their safety standards is not high.

Personally, you wouldn't see a chrome plated fitting on my still. But do as you wish, it's your still after all.

[Ludwig404]

I appreciate the warning on the underlying brass, and I fully get that. The fitting will be replaced with a copper coupling as soon as UPS gets it here.

Thank you.

[rad14701]

Not only would I be worried about lead in the brass of that chrome plated fitting but I would also be worried about the seat and seals... I bet there are synthetic parts in there...

Again, I get tired of folks coming here and arguing over questionable materials... Give it up already...!!! Things have gone from pressure cookers as not worthy of use as a boiler to a pissing match over chrome plated fittings... Really...??? You're fighting a losing battle and that is pretty damned annoying to those of us attempting to promote this hobby/craft in a safe manner in hopes of it becoming decriminalized...!!!

[cob]

I appreciate the warning on the underlying brass, and I fully get that. The fitting will be replaced with a copper coupling as soon as UPS gets it here.

Thank you.

when you take the chrome fitting off to replace it look inside and see that there is little or no chrome inside.

the plating is there for appearance not safety.

[ShineRunnah]

You're fighting a losing battle and that is pretty damned annoying to those of us attempting to promote this hobby/craft in a safe manner in hopes of it becoming decriminalized...!!!

This is another aspect many do not seem to consider. My opinion; do as you wish in your own home, but don't come on a public forum and start promoting bad or questionable practices.

It's aggravating to me that some insist on using materials and/or practices that the majority views as unsafe, unfit, questionable or in some other way not suitable or practical for safe enjoyment of this hobby.

Truthfully, I have a pretty low view of those who promote half-assed garbage stills on youtube or elsewhere, and the same goes for those who promote other garbage ideas and practices associated with the hobby. I do not wish to be associated with, or compared to, the idiots that chose to engage in and promote such endeavors. I would prefer to be viewed as being better than that, and I've invested considerable time, money and effort to be better than that.