So, Am I Crazy? check this Boka

[DurhamDistiller]

Hi Guys, been distilling a while, been reading a long long while, lets hope
I don't ask any Newb questions!
so, ive just posted on the welcome forum, so you can have a read about me there if you like!, but

I want to make a Boka still, though theres a few changes I want to make,
and I want your opinions, im not building this to get a better neutral, im
not building it to get a better yield. frankly, ive never built a still,
ive barely changed a light bulb, and its a pretty sorry thing to say, I
distil, but I don't have my own beautiful creation. and frankly, it looks
fun as hell, and this is well over the top.
my boka will be split into several sections while im explaining this, if
you guys don't understand what im saying ill do some drawings later on
tonight,
so, 15.5 gallon keg, the usual, electric heat sources etc.
I intend to use 2 inch or 3 inch copper tubing for the column 3 or 4 meters
tall, I intend to split this into 5 pieces, of equal length, and attach
connect them together with Tri-Clamps, in order to make storage, cleaning
easier, and to give me the option of making it far shorter, do much smaller
runs, etc,
so at the top of my column, ill be using a Concentric dual-coil, nice and
simple, the usual slanted plates and spirit out spout with ball valve,
running into a simple liebig condenser,
I also intend to build 2 very simple bubble plates, very small perforations
in a copper disk to let vapour rise through, with small 5mm copper pipe
raised roughly an inch up on each column, so that an inch of distillate
will settle on the plates and all excess fall down below making each bubble
plate effectively work as a thumper would, though in the still these will
be high up, but below the slanted plates. these bubble plates will be connected, again with Tri-clamps, so I can add and remove them.
I also intend to make 3 simple copper packing holders (so packing doesn't
drop down in the column) Tri-clamp again
so the overall intention is that because every piece of the still, ill be able to chop ans change with the tri-clamps, I can add in a bubble plate here and there until
it works best, and add in packing holders etc. quite simple up to now.
in the bottom of my column, (again, not for efficiency, not for yield,
because I can) intend to add in more copper slanted plates and a low
volatiles receiver with a ball valve so I can turn it on and off, these
plates, as they are close to the boiler will be very hot, though cool
enough to allow water to collect on and be retrieved(much in the same way
large column still have run offs at every level) this would simply be to
reduce the amount of low alcohol or water in the system. this is something
im unsure of, I know its not necessary really,
above the bottom bubble plate, I would like to add in a system, much like
that, but to allow me to add more wash into the still, suspending a 1 litre
container beside the column, full of wash, circulating hot waste water from
the condenser through it using copper coils, in order to warm the wash
before it enters the still, as it enters the column (very slowly), it would
flow down, and begin to lie on the bubble plate, displacing everything
else, causing much more reflux, as well as lowing the ABV of the alcohol
that sits on the bubble plate, allowing it to continue to work the way a
thumper does. the addition of cooler liquids to the still, will again,
increase reflux above the bubbler plate
so my current intention, the still would be built like this
Condenser (with spirit out spout and valve)
0.5m of column filled with copper scrubbers
Packing holder
Bubble plate
0.5m of column with wash inlet and needle valve to allow slow addition of
wash
0.5m of column
bubble plate
0.5m of column filled with copper scrubbers
packing holder
0.5m of column filled with copper scrubbers
packing holder
0.5m with low volatile spout and valve
boiler
so, what are your thoughts? am I going to reach azeotrope with this still
or am I going to ruin my life?
thanks in advance

[DAD300]

I'm going to have a drink and may read that again...yes you're going to ruin your life.

[DurhamDistiller]

If it's hard to understand I'll post some diagrams! In my opinion it's not all about efficiencies and purity, It's about doing what we can do, it all began with fun!

[DAD300]

I get the sectional design. I get the mix of apparatus. Your writing is fine.

[bellybuster]

3 or 4 meters tall is where i stopped reading

[bellybuster]

all that typing and you could have had a nice flute built and running already

[thatguy1313]

I'm going to have a drink and may read that again...yes you're going to ruin your life.

^^^^^^ this

[Hound Dog]

3 or 4 meters tall is where i stopped reading

Yea, after 4 meters you might not need a cooling coil any more.....

A diagram might be simpler.

[thatguy1313]

3 or 4 meters tall is where i stopped reading

Yea, after 4 meters you might not need a cooling coil any more.....

Not to mention itd be one top heavy SOB at that height. Prolly just tip over.

[DurhamDistiller]

Well thanks for the not so constructive criticisms guys.... Glad I made you laugh..... My thought behind it being so tall to actually get the difference between the top and bottom so it's actually possible to draw off the low volatiles at the bottom, If you have any suggestions or reasons it doesn't need to be so tall, Let me know

[Tap]

lets see a diagram. Draw up your plans and submit it already! I get what you are describing... but pics are usually more helpful if you want proper constructive criticism.

referring to your post title.. You might actually be a bit crazy indeed.

Tap.Out

[bearriver]

I'll admit the wall of text is very intimidating. The run on sentences also make it difficult to digest. I've read it twice and still don't understand half of what your trying to convey. There are a dozen thoughts strung together in one post... Your all over the place while using terms that are not readily recognized by the forums.

Clean that OP up, and you'll get some very helpful replies.

I would have addressed this post if it was presented in a manner that I could understand. If you are having difficulties communicating, remember, a picture is worth a thousand words.

[skow69]

Yep. Yer crazy.

What's the advantage of drawing off the low volatiles at the bottom, as opposed to letting them fall into the boiler? Do you have a purpose you're saving them for?

[DurhamDistiller]

The idea of removing the low volatiles is to get rid of them, get them out of the still, as the run goes on, the more lower volatiles come through, maybe I would get a higher quality spirit, producing something potable even when it comes out of the still at 20%. Because the low volatile substances won't come through with the spiritI understand it's not necessary and its all about patience and waiting, and the height, Ok, Im beginning to understand why 3 or 4 meters is way too tall, for practicalities (yes it probably would fall over) maybe 2 meters would suffice, I have just started work today and so ill post images soon, If you guys would prefer, We can kill this thread and I'll start another tonight or tomorrow with diagrams, images and explanations of what I'm trying to achieve ?

[bearriver]

No need. Were still on page one. Just come back with well organized diagram/s and short concise questions.

We're here to help!

[Hound Dog]

Heck, I have 54" of lava rock for packing and I think it is way overkill. One day I will rebuild and shorten things up. The alcohols stack just fine though.

[Danespirit]

Looks like we have a interesting build here.
In my mind it's som kind of "combo apparatus"

column with wash inlet and needle valve to allow slow addition of
wash

Sounds like a continious still is part of the plan.
And it's going to be damned tall...

I intend to use 2 inch or 3 inch copper tubing for the column 3 or 4 meters
tall, I intend to split this into 5 pieces, of equal length

Now..i would say if you choose 2" pipe that length, you must have some support or it will be wonky and wobly..
Think we all wait with excitement for a sketch/drawing of this "Frankenstein still"..

Edit : For a normal 2" VM for example above 1500mm is waste of pipe and you wouldn't gain any purity.
Rule of thumb.. : 24-30 times the diameter of your column, should be the height.

[Copper top]

One thing I can tell you as a newbee ,You learn so much on your first build , and first few runs I'm glad I followed a tried and tested boka desgin first I'm now in a position to adapt it as my knowledge grows

good luck for what appears to be a very ambitious first build
Looking forward to seeing the drawings

[DAD300]

Durham, what you describe is a true fractionating column, where dif products are taken off at dif levels, pressures and temperatures.

Just having a tall column doesn't get you there. You have to have pressure and temp control outside of the hobby level skill set.

Hobby level we attempt to take the fractions off in order of greatest mass chronologically...the fores come off first, then the heads, then the hearts, then the tails...it isn't perfect! There is smearing along the way, but we still manage to do it better than the commercial big boys.

That doesn't mean I don't want to see you build what you describe! Have at it! Keep it modular (Triclamp) and all the pieces will be usable later.

[skow69]

Don't be put off by a lack of cheerleaders, DD. Build it the way you see it. It may not work just the way you expect, but that doesn't mean you won't learn from it. You might even stumble on to a whole new concept to share with the rest of us. We'd love that (after we get done trying to argue you out of it). Not many discoveries left to be made by building yet another plain jane standard boka. I'm crazy enough to think that in ten years we'll look back at what we're doing now and laugh. But somebody has to build some weird shit along the way, and take a bunch of flack over it in a forum. It's the price of progress.

Celebrate your insanity. Build something bizarre. And post photos!

[Hound Dog]

I still think you're crazy but the guys are right. Try something crazy and see what happens! You could just come up with something awesome and rub our noses in it. Worst case, you take a couple sections out and have a run of the mill rig.

[bellybuster]

Im a little surprised to see encouragement for a self proclaimed inexperienced newbie to build a monstrosity that most of the more experienced guys couldn't or wouldn't build.

Build yourself a usable still, learn the ropes and go from there, you don't climb a mountain from the top down...

[googe]

I know for experience that taking to much on at once will make your brain explode and will frustrate you if it doesn't work, or don't understand how it works!. It's hard to get advice from people if it's a new concept your doing. Id agree with dad and belly and say build the boka, and add one piece at a time to see how it works. Think very hard about safety issues!!, if you add one piece, will that affect the safe running of the other piece, will it all be vented to the atmosphere, you don't want a bomb!. Adding a continuous section to run as a normal still will be very hard to accomplish. It will be a difficult still to build and could result in alot of desoldering and changing parts, ideas. good luck. Yeah a diagram would be good.

[Tap]

Im a little surprised to see encouragement for a self proclaimed inexperienced newbie to build a monstrosity that most of the more experienced guys couldn't or wouldn't build.

Build yourself a usable still, learn the ropes and go from there, you don't climb a mountain from the top down...

At the same time.. Let's encourage this 'self proclaimed newbie' to put forth his diagram.

By the description... It doesn't seem likely to be a viable hobby still... BUT...

Perhaps all of the experienced peeps can then shut it down or hopefully learn something.

Tap. Out.

[myles]

Build it if you like but it sure isn't needed. A 3" column will give you azeo day in day out with 1meter of SPP. With other packing a bit more length would be nice.

The greater the length - the faster your production rate but you soon get to the point where you are just about to flood the column. A very stressful operating condition. Only build it so tall if you can justify a reason for doing so.

[thatguy1313]

Ivread and reread and then read your origional post one more time. I think I understand what you're trying to accomplish and it makes sense. However, I have to agree with DAD300. Its more than just having a tall column. I'm just not sure the design you would need to accomplish your goal is feasible at the hobby level.

I commend you for thinking outside the box though! Keep it up!

[Hound Dog]

Also remember that you have to have a boiler big enough to hold enough alcohol to fill all that column. A lot will never make it to the top. Will a keg do it? I don't know how to calculate that.

[rad14701]

I understand the original intent perfectly and it's overkill at the hobby level for many reasons... Think KISS...!!! What is it you want to make, 95% (96.5%) alcohol...??? You don't need much more than 3 feet of packed column for that... You can use copper or SS scrubbers, lava rock, marbles, or SPP and still hit azeotrope... The extra height and gizmos just add build and operational complexities, with virtually no benefits, but some major deficits... It'll need a tall building to run it in... It'll require a lot more power to run due to the taller column... You won't get any better performance or end product... It'll cost a shitload more... Most of the available spirits in your hobby scale boiler would be in the column from the get go and that's a bad scenario... And the list goes on and on...

You're new and more than a bit over-zealous... Stick with the basics... Find what you think might be worth improving from there... You don't need an A-380 for a scenic tour of your town when a Piper Cub or an ultralight would suffice...

Come back to reality here...

[DurhamDistiller]

Ok guys, I've had a really busy week at work, I'm hoping to sort something out this week and show you all, but I have learned a few things from your comments so I am gonna shorten it up, I'll be honest, this is more for me to make something odd and unexplainable, so at least that part is succeeding! I have a rather large still which I will be using for stripping, what goes into this still will be 30-40%, one thing I know, that doesn't seem to be common knowledge on this site, is that, we can all get 96% alcohol, though yours may be more pure than mine, or vice versa, 90% May be ethanol, 6% May be the other alcohols that are less volatile, I know it's often said that on this site we aren't greedy, it's quality not quantity and that does help, Keep the hearts of the hearts! But I'm trying to see if by doing this I' can get rid of the ISO amylase etc all the shite, I will build it, but shorter and more stable I think, I promise drawings, I will do them!

[skow69]

Ok guys, I've had a really busy week at work, I'm hoping to sort something out this week and show you all, but I have learned a few things from your comments so I am gonna shorten it up, I'll be honest, this is more for me to make something odd and unexplainable, so at least that part is succeeding!

I thought that was a given.

I have a rather large still which I will be using for stripping, what goes into this still will be 30-40%, one thing I know, that doesn't seem to be common knowledge on this site, is that, we can all get 96% alcohol, though yours may be more pure than mine, or vice versa, 90% May be ethanol, 6% May be the other alcohols that are less volatile,

Then one of us would have a jar that smells like tails and needs to go in the feints jug.

I know it's often said that on this site we aren't greedy, it's quality not quantity and that does help, Keep the hearts of the hearts! But I'm trying to see if by doing this I' can get rid of the ISO amylase etc all the shite,

"i·so·am·y·lase (ī′sō-ăm′ə-lās′, -lāz′) n. An enzyme that catalyzes the cleavage of branching sections in glycogen, amylopectin, and certain dextrins."

What's that shit doing in your still?

Couldn't find a definition for "shite."

I will build it, but shorter and more stable I think, I promise drawings, I will do them!

Looking forward to it.
skow