my first real attempt

[smoCha]

2015-02-25 00.01.23.jpg (15.63 KiB) Viewed 3043 times

First bear kiss.......
OK enough dumb shit. Any one who read my introduction knows I'm not one to follow convention, but after getting set in the right direction I've realized that maybe I can't just feel my way through this. My wife is fine with this method, apparently likker is not so forgiving.

This was my first effort at mashing correctly, not just throwing some shit into boiling water and falling asleep.

Anyone can correct me or help me on this- is there any benefit (flavor or potency) or any info on getting sugar conversion out of sweet feed? Most of the recipes I've read appear to be using the SF for flavor and sugar for the alchohol. So here's a what I done- mixed 8 cups sweet feed with 2 cups malted barley, crushed. It's pellet sweet feed, please don't beat the hell out of me here. After 3 runs of it I'm OK with the taste, and putting it in cheese cloth sacks will contain the mess. Took all the sacks of horsey meal and plunked them in a pot at 180°. Brought it down to 150° for 90 min and then added 10# of white sugar. Stirred till it was mixed. Poured half of the wash into 6 gal beer buckets and topped with water. Stirred and let it cool.to 80° pitched 8 tablespoons of yeast per 6 gal bucket- bakers yeast.

So, my ?? Is- is there any difference/benefit/disadvantage in using a bit less sugar and and some malt?
Let me add that my beer hydrometer still have not arrived, so I'm I the dark as far as SG/FG on my washes. (Ebay from China is so slow)
Thanks to all.
If ya read this one pappy..challenge accepted, science on the way!

[whistlewetter]

Getting your hydrometer in will take all the guess work out of starting a mash and finishing the fermentation. It maybe the best thing I have purchased as far as simplifying that process. My brother started using sweetfeed in his stuff. I personally do not like the taste of it until its sits for a while. The longer it sat the closer it got to the flavor of the corn recipe. He did not use the pellet type. I have not tried doing a sweet feed batch so I am probably not the best one to help but will try. I would imagine that getting your sweed feed to malt ratio is key. Without the malt any starches you get from the sweet feed will not be converted to sugar. So if you are coverting all your starches and if you are using a good recipe then its possible that you wont need any sugar. However, you wont be able to know this until your hydrometer arrives.

I started by using corn and sugar and after visiting here I slowly learned about converting starches through the use of malts as well as using a hydrometer. I slowly improved the process. Then I tried the Birdwatcher recipe for a sugar head and decided to stick with that. Everything I drink is flavored and this seems to be the way to go if you are flavoring. plus it is way simpler and less time consuming to make.

There is a differnce in flavor between corn, sweetfeed and straight sugar mashes for sure.

If I lead him astray anywhere please correct me for both of our benefit.

[S-Cackalacky]

Well, I'm gonna bust your chops a bit. The SF with pellets will probably have a negative affect on your mashing. Those pellets are usually vegetable material like alfalfa or anything else they decide to compress into a pellet. That said, it will have very little, or no, starch available for conversion. I would suggest purchasing individual grains - corn, oats, and barley. Mix them in equal proportions and do a typical mashing process on them using either malt or liquid enzymes. Add some pasteurized molasses to the wort and ferment it.

[MichiganCornhusker]

Took all the sacks of horsey meal and plunked them in a pot at 180°.

When you dropped the malt into 180F water you may have denatured all those wonderful enzymes, so I doubt any starch conversion took place. A quick iodine test would confirm that.
I don't know anything at all about sweetfeed pellets, so I can't tell you if you would need to cook them or not before adding the malt at 150F.
Personally, I would agree with S-Cackalacky, mix up individual grains to a proportion you like. No way to know what the heck is in a pellet.
Check out some of the AG recipes in the Tried & True section, the concepts work with any combination of grains, and the threads provide a lot of information and direction for how to mash the grains.

[smoCha]

Well, I'm gonna bust your chops a bit. The SF with pellets will probably have a negative affect on your mashing. Those pellets are usually vegetable material like alfalfa or anything else they decide to compress into a pellet. That said, it will have very little, or no, starch available for conversion. I would suggest purchasing individual grains - corn, oats, and barley. Mix them in equal proportions and do a typical mashing process on them using either malt or liquid enzymes. Add some pasteurized molasses to the wort and ferment it.

I'm aware of the hot dog like manufacturing process for the pellet. I wasn't able to find any of the good stuff around town. It's not 100% pellets though. After mashing I can clearly see corn and oats in the cheese cloth. I'm pretty sure that most people are recommending manna hi pro because it's all grains and I intend so find some and switch to that. But hell, I eat skyline chili dogs ....
This batch is bubbling harder than anything I've done so far. I feel like my darts are at least hitting the board now.

[whistlewetter]

Is there a reason you want to do sweet feed? You should be able to go to almost any feed store and get a 50lb bag of cracked corn for $10 or less (around here). I do think the corn taste better as well. Plenty of starch in corn. when you boil it right it takes the consistancey of creamed corn, very think. Then when you add the correct amount of malt at the correct temp and let it sit, it becomes thin. Cool visual to let you know while you're cooking that things are going correctly.

[smoCha]

Is there a reason you want to do sweet feed? You should be able to go to almost any feed store and get a 50lb bag of cracked corn for $10 or less (around here). I do think the corn taste better as well. Plenty of starch in corn. when you boil it right it takes the consistancey of creamed corn, very think. Then when you add the correct amount of malt at the correct temp and let it sit, it becomes thin. Cool visual to let you know while you're cooking that things are going correctly.

Honestly not a fan of pure corn. I've made a batch and sampled many others, home made and commercial. I really want to move on to try 100% rye or some rums, but wanted to get my legs under me before I embarrassed myself or wasted a bunch of time and money(BTW I've already done a bit of both).

[S-Cackalacky]

Well, I'm gonna bust your chops a bit. The SF with pellets will probably have a negative affect on your mashing. Those pellets are usually vegetable material like alfalfa or anything else they decide to compress into a pellet. That said, it will have very little, or no, starch available for conversion. I would suggest purchasing individual grains - corn, oats, and barley. Mix them in equal proportions and do a typical mashing process on them using either malt or liquid enzymes. Add some pasteurized molasses to the wort and ferment it.

I'm aware of the hot dog like manufacturing process for the pellet. I wasn't able to find any of the good stuff around town. It's not 100% pellets though. After mashing I can clearly see corn and oats in the cheese cloth. I'm pretty sure that most people are recommending manna hi pro because it's all grains and I intend so find some and switch to that. But hell, I eat skyline chili dogs ....
This batch is bubbling harder than anything I've done so far. I feel like my darts are at least hitting the board now.

Yes, I realize it has both grains and pellets. The point I was trying to make was that the pellets, which have no value in a true mash (starch to sugar conversion), will displace the volume of grains. So, if the pellets are half the volume of the product, you would need to use twice the weight of the product to get a decent amount of sugar from the conversion. For example - if you normally use 2 lbs of grain per 1 gallon of water for a normal grain mash, you would need to use 4 lbs of your pelleted product to do a similar mash.

[SassyFrass]

If you are eating Cincinnati style chile (skyline, goldstar, Dixie, etc...) then you may be able to drive a little bit and find a family owned feed store or a southern states CO-OP. You should be able to find fresh All Grain/molasses sweet feed at one of those. If they do their own grinding, milling and mixing, even better. Find you a place outside the city and outside suburbia. There's a lot of farm land around that tri-State area.

You may not be able to use google or a phone book and may have to actually drive around looking.

I don't know anything about store bought malt or liquid enzymes. I've never used either one. But I convert the grain in my SF instead of using sugar. It takes awhile to sprout the corn and get everything ready to set up and mash out. Having everything planned out and in place BEFORE mashing out has always worked for me.

I've never bought SF with pellets in it, so I can't say much other than, yuck. I want to know exactly what's in my recipe.

The SF recipe in T&T seems ALOT easier than the way I learned to do it. I'm gonna try that this summer.

Good Luck

[smoCha]

Thanks sassyfrass, it took me half the day but I finally found a tack store about 30 min outside of town that has what I want. Guess i got a bit lazy on my first attempt. Can't make it there until tomorrow, but the lady assured me there were no pellets in their own proprietary mix. So it's supporting the local economy and maybe kind of unique as well. $11 for a 50# bag!

Fortunately, my rabbit is eating the pellet feed at the rate of about 2 cups a day so at least I have a use for it. He's gonna be a fat basted by the time summer comes.

Thanks as well S-Cackalacky, i understand your point very well about the filler being not much more than wasted space at best, prolly goat shit and weeds at worst.
If I may, let's jump back to my original ?? Assuming I go get an all grain sweet feed, and I do not have the room/ability right now to malt it- could I add some sort of malt or malted barley (that I have on hand) and get a "better sugar" for the yeast. Or a better taste by not making what seems to me to be a sugar wash with grains for flavor? Or does it even matter? Maybe sugar is sugar......thanks for patience with the noob. You guys are awesome.

[S-Cackalacky]

If you're new to doing ferments, it might be a good idea to start with the recipe in the Tried and True section. It's a sugarhead, but it's easy to make and will get you familiar with the basic fermentation process. Doing AG (all grain) mashing can be a little intimidating for new distillers. There's plenty of time to learn this stuff. Best not to start off with something that might cause you to become discouraged. But, if you feel up to the task, by all means give it a go.

All sugar isn't the same. There have been some seriously heated arguments here about sugarheads vs AG recipes. Sugarhead whiskey is said to have a sugar bite and some different flavor notes compared to AG recipes. You'll learn to appreciate the difference as you get deeper into the hobby.

[MichiganCornhusker]

Mashing grains with malt, or store bought enzymes, is a whole 'nother animal. It is not that difficult, but there is a learning curve to it.
I'm not aware of any "mashed sweetfeed" recipes. If you go down the All Grain road, I strongly recommend choosing one of the AG recipes in the Tried and True section. By going with a recipe/method that has been proven to work, the people here will be much more able to help you if something goes wrong.

[SassyFrass]

Thanks sassyfrass, it took me half the day but I finally found a tack store about 30 min outside of town that has what I want. Guess i got a bit lazy on my first attempt. Can't make it there until tomorrow, but the lady assured me there were no pellets in their own proprietary mix. So it's supporting the local economy and maybe kind of unique as well. $11 for a 50# bag!

Fortunately, my rabbit is eating the pellet feed at the rate of about 2 cups a day so at least I have a use for it. He's gonna be a fat basted by the time summer comes.

Thanks as well S-Cackalacky, i understand your point very well about the filler being not much more than wasted space at best, prolly goat shit and weeds at worst.
If I may, let's jump back to my original ?? Assuming I go get an all grain sweet feed, and I do not have the room/ability right now to malt it- could I add some sort of malt or malted barley (that I have on hand) and get a "better sugar" for the yeast. Or a better taste by not making what seems to me to be a sugar wash with grains for flavor? Or does it even matter? Maybe sugar is sugar......thanks for patience with the noob. You guys are awesome.

Try the original recipe in the Tried & True thread. then let it age a little bit. You may find that you like it, a lot of folks swear by it.
Read the whole Sweet Feed thread in T&T. you'll learn a lot. And that'll help you out. It's long, but there is a ton of excellent info in there.
Ain't much wrong with a good sugarhead. IF the cuts are done right and it's aged right. You can get just about all that sugar bite out with a little aging and a little white oak or crabapple wood. And it will beat most bonded likker for taste too.
Good Luck.
SF

[T-Pee]

i understand your point very well about the filler being not much more than wasted space at best, prolly goat shit and weeds at worst.

Trust me. This bunch has tried washes out of worse.

tp

[SassyFrass]

i understand your point very well about the filler being not much more than wasted space at best, prolly goat shit and weeds at worst.

Trust me. This bunch has tried washes out of worse.

tp

+1 TP


Hell, there are cultures that ferment mare's milk, and drink it. A lot of different things can be used to make booze. Not saying it's all good, but...they like it.

There was some guy on here started a thread about making likker out of koolaid. I don't remember the particulars, but just struck me as funny. BTW, he caught hell from a lot of folks too..

Your taste are what you gotta please.

Just be safe and have fun with it.

[smoCha]

Drove 40 damn miles outta my way today to get a new bag of sweet feed from an "outside the city"- source. I called ahead and asked them if it was a pellet food. Lady says "no its sweet feed" Again I asked "but is it ALL grain?"
I bet you can guess where this is going. ........ It's better, maybe 50% grains. Pellets fall apart in your hand. Smells way better, i would it it. Actually, just did, but not much. It's made by the feed company who runs the store so at least my money stays local.

I bet you can tell from the pic which on the rabbit is gonna get.

The funniest part of my day was when she said they never had any problems with feeding this product.
"Well, I inherited this grumpy old donkey"
The lady- "oh, what's his name?" I had not thought that far ahead.
I grabbed the bag and headed for the door. I really wanna name my fictitious old donkey Moonshine.

I'm gonna try a batch, following the T/T recipe. Then I'll start backing out the sugar and adding malted barley till I hit "my" sweet spot. Maybe next time I'll drive an hour. At this point gas is costing me more than ingredients. Lol. I'll keep ya posted.

[Antler24]

2015-02-26 22.24.59.jpg

Drove 40 damn miles outta my way today to get a new bag of sweet feed from an "outside the city"- source. I called ahead and asked them if it was a pellet food. Lady says "no its sweet feed" Again I asked "but is it ALL grain?"
I bet you can guess where this is going. ........ It's better, maybe 50% grains. Pellets fall apart in your hand. Smells way better, i would it it. Actually, just did, but not much. It's made by the feed company who runs the store so at least my money stays local.

I bet you can tell from the pic which on the rabbit is gonna get.

The funniest part of my day was when she said they never had any problems with feeding this product.
"Well, I inherited this grumpy old donkey"
The lady- "oh, what's his name?" I had not thought that far ahead.
I grabbed the bag and headed for the door. I really wanna name my fictitious old donkey Moonshine.

I'm gonna try a batch, following the T/T recipe. Then I'll start backing out the sugar and adding malted barley till I hit "my" sweet spot. Maybe next time I'll drive an hour. At this point gas is costing me more than ingredients. Lol. I'll keep ya posted.

Around here the only feed store is 1.5hrs drive away. The only sweetfeed they carry is full of pellets. You could just buy it all seperate and mix yourself. It's just equal amount of cracked corn, rolled oat, and barley. Add in a little molasses and you've got the same thing.

[smoCha]

Around here the only feed store is 1.5hrs drive away. The only sweetfeed they carry is full of pellets. You could just buy it all seperate and mix yourself. It's just equal amount of cracked corn, rolled oat, and barley. Add in a little molasses and you've got the same thing.[/quote]

I know I could make it, but could make 50# of it for $11? I guess that's the million dollar ??

[smoCha]

May be boring to some, but upon inspection this bags ingredient tag reads pretty well.

Corn, oats, Wheat middlings, soybean hulls, alfalfa meal, dehulled soybean meal, cane molasses, dried distillers grains, calcium carbonate, monocalcium phosphate, salt, vegetable and animal fat. Then there's a long list of preservatives followed by some vitamins, namely b12 and niacin.

At least it doesn't just say "grain by product"

[rad14701]

I know I could make it, but could make 50# of it for $11? I guess that's the million dollar ??

No, not for $11, but you could have 3x as much grain for barely 3x as much money - and have better quality control... I can get cracked corn, crimped oats, and crimped barley, locally for about the same price per bag...

[smoCha]

For what its worth, this one is 8 days in and still moving. 1.010.
Have no idea where it started cuz the meter showed up Monday. My intuition says let it go till it stops bubblin'. But what if if it passes 1.0?

[smoCha]

Hey homies, Just wanted to keep y'all updated on my sweetfeed conversion experiment.

First batch- shitty pellet feed, on the left way above. (Think Nathan hotdogs). But I followed the recipe. Not from T&T, but that "4" in the bottom of a bucket" recipe is everywhere. I got piss from this run as volume goes, maybe 3 pints keepers.

Second batch- same feed - yeah yeah, I know. Added 6 cups malted barley. Mixed it with the sweet feed and made loose bags with cheese cloth. Steeped them for 90 min at 160ish and added 10# of sugar (ghetto). 8 days later hit 1.000 and ran a damn gallon of 140 proof whiskey.

Third times a charm(learning experience) - this time I went 50/50 with the malted barley and a much better $3.50 worth of horse food. It still makes me laugh, I'm determined to polish this turd. Mashed in the bags for 90 min at 150 and added 7# of sugar. I forgot to mention im doing 10 gallons at a time. No dice. ..it started at 1.035 and has hit 1.005 in 48 hours. Live and learn right.

so, do I bomb some more sugga in there and keep it going or do I dump it? I would be OK worth a gallon of 70 proof with good flavor, or will I get another one pint run of 150?

Throw me a bone, my eyes hurt.

[SassyFrass]

Hey homies, Just wanted to keep y'all updated on my sweetfeed conversion experiment.

First batch- shitty pellet feed, on the left way above. (Think Nathan hotdogs). But I followed the recipe. Not from T&T, but that "4" in the bottom of a bucket" recipe is everywhere. I got piss from this run as volume goes, maybe 3 pints keepers.

Second batch- same feed - yeah yeah, I know. Added 6 cups malted barley. Mixed it with the sweet feed and made loose bags with cheese cloth. Steeped them for 90 min at 160ish and added 10# of sugar (ghetto). 8 days later hit 1.000 and ran a damn gallon of 140 proof whiskey.

Third times a charm(learning experience) - this time I went 50/50 with the malted barley and a much better $3.50 worth of horse food. It still makes me laugh, I'm determined to polish this turd. Mashed in the bags for 90 min at 150 and added 7# of sugar. I forgot to mention im doing 10 gallons at a time. No dice. ..it started at 1.035 and has hit 1.005 in 48 hours. Live and learn right.

so, do I bomb some more sugga in there and keep it going or do I dump it? I would be OK worth a gallon of 70 proof with good flavor, or will I get another one pint run of 150?

Throw me a bone, my eyes hurt.

Ok, did you do cuts on your second batch?
If you did cuts, then how did it taste?
Third batch. Let it quit working, then let it clear for a few days. Then run it.

Overall, you are working harder for this than you need.
The original SF recipe is a simple no brainer, that will work.

[smoCha]

Hey sassy,
Yeah, the gallon was after cuts. I run 2-3 Oz at a time into caviar jars for at least the first pints. Never kept anything before 24-36 Oz, but I like to watch it change. I've learned to pitch anything fishy. I cut the tails when I hit around 50 abv. If the flavor is good I'll run a bit farther. I swear when it hits 100 proof you can see the waters and oils starting to pour into the jar. That's how I do it, not perfect but I'm getting better

the taste of all three batches has gotten WAY better after couple weeks rest on oak chips. Even the first batch, but it has a bit of molasses to it yet.

1 vote for let it be. OK let's see what happens.

As far as working hard - it's the only way I know how. Like most hobbies I dove into this one head first. The second batch was only a couple pounds of sugar off from the T &T recipe I found here and 100 other places. And yes it does work, it made my best batch so far. But what I can't find is an oat barley corn molasses recipe that works on conversion.
I'm just fishing here....but I bet some of the best times you've had were off the beaten path? Ever find morels on a hiking trail? What about a big patch of ginseng? Sometimes it's the journey not the destination that I enjoy most.

[smoCha]

Just re read this post and laughed my ass off. Oh what you learn in a few years.