double check your ferrule joints

[humbledore]

I had an accident a few days ago which was totally unexpected. I had a short ferrule that I had soldered in fail on me during a run. There was good amount of off-center weight on the column the way it was set up. This joint, which I have used many times, it turned out to not have a good join. It was good enough to be liquid tight but not strong. So chalk it up to me being an idiot if you like, but I would hate to see it happen to anyone else. Since you can't see inside the pipe, it's hard to know. I guess my only advice is to really be generous with the flux and solder and make sure to rough up that stainless before starting. And when done, smack it with a hammer a couple times to make sure it's strong. Personally I may go to stainless on the column for strength here on out.

Here you can see it barely soldered.

This side was better.

[Bushman]

Good advice and it was smart that you were attending your set-up. My column is SS and after the RC everything is copper. With a 4" column I sometimes have a hard time putting it on the boiler without my wife's help as I can feel the pull of the weight from the shotgun condenser being offset making it hard to attach the tri-clamp with one hand while holding the column.

[thecroweater]

It is the bottom ferrule that takes the greatest load. it is a good joint to consider silver soldering or tigging , mine is soft soldered but it also has 3 stainless bolts, rivets would work to

[bitter]

Ouch good thing you were watching carefully. That was one of my worries and why I went with a 2" triclamp to 2" NTP copper for my column. Cost about $50 extra for the build but I thought worth it...

Stainless is definitely a way to go especially if you can tig everything or have someone close that can for you.

B

[Usge]

You can get a copper ferrule that will solder good and solid to copper pipe for 16 bucks.

[humbledore]

Good advice and it was smart that you were attending your set-up. My column is SS and after the RC everything is copper. With a 4" column I sometimes have a hard time putting it on the boiler without my wife's help as I can feel the pull of the weight from the shotgun condenser being offset making it hard to attach the tri-clamp with one hand while holding the column.

Yes that is the other take away, never leave your still. I just had no mental picture of the forces pulling sideways on the ferrules. The top half of the column just started tilting to the left, and then nearly dropped off. I grabbed and caught the shotgun. My brain took a second to even register what was happening, I was staring down into an open running column. Fortunately I run electric, so no open flame, and I shut everything down. I then went and changed my drawers. Many worse things could have happened there, I'm fortunate.

[CR33G3R]

There are also longer ferrules available. I think they have a 2 inch shoulder on them which makes for a stronger joint.

[bellybuster]

Id be curious to hear what your method for soldering that was. I also use stainless pop rivets in my ferrules

[acfixer69]

I read this kind of stuff here all the time and it leads folks to believe that one joint type is better then the other. Stainless to copper joining with fittings is not difficult and not a mystery. It needs to be done correctly which ever way you chose. A poorly tigged, migged, soldered or silver brazed joint will leak if not done correctly.
For our application there is no pressure so heat and physical stress on the fit is all that needs to be considered. They are all the right choice but they all need to be done right the first time.

AC

[humbledore]

I used staybrite 8, stay-clean flux, a mapp torch, I didn't do anything I hadn't done twenty times already. I think the downfall was not roughing the stainless side up enough. It's hard to hold those small ferrules and file the stem part. Next time I will use a belt sander or grinder. Yes I bought a couple of those taller ferrules also. Since the pipe is straight and the ferrule stem drafted (angled inwards) it doesnt fit right to wick the solder up. And you end up with a liquid collection point between the two surfaces. I thought the shorter ferrule would lessen that.

[humbledore]

I'm not saying one joint is better than the other. My point here is to put them through a stress test to make sure they're strong. Yes I did a bad job soldering it, but how can you tell when it it's hidden from view and seems to be leakproof?

[acfixer69]

Not my intention to belittle your effort. Just want the readers to think about it. Suppose the pro that was hired to do it was having a bad day. I am a do it yourself guy and I know they will all do the trick. Good luck with the rework effort.

AC

[corene1]

I was in the middle of posting but had a power outage. I was going to ask if you could post a picture of the inside of the copper tube to see if the solder flowed onto it and didn't bond on the stainless. I am always testing stuff to destruction to see what makes it tick so this is a good chance to learn something. It looks to me like the stainless didn't get enough heat or flux or both in it to flow the solder into the joint I was just curious if the solder had bonded with the copper. I have seen this happen a couple of times where one piece will get up to temperature and the solder will flow but other base metal didn't get hot enough for a bond to take place. They look like a good joint until stressed.

[humbledore]

Here are some pics. I coated both sides with flux and added more but it may not have wicked in enough.

[attachment=-1]uploadfromtaptalk1432083915034.jpg[/attachment][attachment=-1]uploadfromtaptalk1432083929915.jpg[/attachment]

[corene1]

On the first picture it shows one spot that flowed really well, that shiny spot shows the solder wicked past the end of the stainless ferrule It is a bit marginal on the second picture. It looks like most of the bond was right at the contact point between the ferrule and the tube. I am betting a little slower heat up so the heat can build evenly in the 2 pieces and a little more heat with good flux will solve the issue. When I solder and the joint starts to accept the filler I start working the heat a bit quicker and move it around the joint . As you solder it , look inside the ferrule and you will be able to see if the flux and solder have flowed up inside the tube, it will be visible. For stainless to copper connections it is hard to beat Harris stay brite 8 and Harris Stay Clean flux. I know it is a bit more pricey but it works really well. I did a little sample and then did a cutaway for a previous post to show how well it will wick the filler It is about 2/3 down the second page. http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 6&start=30

[rad14701]

Almost looks like a cold solder joint due to lack of proper heat to me, or inadequate flux as previously mentioned... Glad you were attentive and avoided disaster...

[bearriver]

I check all my joints and connections for leaks after changing collection jars. That happens every 15 minutes or so depending on what I'm distilling.

[cranky]

Although I haven't had a failure I don't trust my stuff completely so I have a loop at the top of my new column and an eye bolt in the ceiling. I run a tie strap around the u-bend at the top of the column, through the loop then up through the eye bolt, then over to the wall where I have it attached to another eye bolt. once everything is set up and in place I cinch up the tie strap to fully support the weight of the column while running so if something should fail it does not fall over. It's just a little extra safety precaution but may have helped in this case. I'm sure it's not the first or last time this has happened to someone.

[likker liker]

That's interesting too see this topic today, I just finished fixing a vapor leak at the top of my tower. I have a 1/2 copper female fitting for the temperature Guage. I bump it poring vinegar into the tower, and of course when I was separating the water for the bad stuff I could see a leak. Not wanting that to get into the environment, I quickly plugged It.

[MichiganCornhusker]

Thanks for posting. I'm working on a modular set up right now with lots of copper to stainless solder joints. I've tested them for leaks, but will also stress test them now. Much better safe than sorry.

[bearriver]

I press fit my ferrule into type L 3" copper pipe with enough interference to make it rock solid. It bulged out the copper quite a bit on it's way. The only way I see it springing a leak is if I hit it with my truck.

That's not to say the ferrule shouldn't be soldered anyways... In that case the solder is redundant security instead of the only thing keeping it together.

[HDNB]

Almost looks like a cold solder joint due to lack of proper heat to me, or inadequate flux as previously mentioned... Glad you were attentive and avoided disaster...

gotta agree, looks like a cold joint. When soldering always place solder on the cooler side (opposite heat source) until the heat pulls the solder to it. fill the joint. the capillary action ensures a good mechanical seal. Of course the right flux is paramount.
(this coming from a guy that used oatey #5 on the last build )

if that doesn't make sense to someone reading this one day...research your flux more! I used it cause i was too lazy to find the right product, but knew i could make the bond with it... it took a month of Sundays to clean it out!

And good job OP... for being on the ball and avoiding disaster!

[jedneck]

Almost looks like a cold solder joint due to lack of proper heat to me, or inadequate flux as previously mentioned... Glad you were attentive and avoided disaster...

gotta agree, looks like a cold joint. When soldering always place solder on the cooler side (opposite heat source) until the heat pulls the solder to it. fill the joint. the capillary action ensures a good mechanical seal. Of course the right flux is paramount.
(this coming from a guy that used oatey #5 on the last build )

if that doesn't make sense to someone reading this one day...research your flux more! I used it cause i was too lazy to find the right product, but knew i could make the bond with it... it took a month of Sundays to clean it out!

And good job OP... for being on the ball and avoiding disaster!

I feel your pain, I did the same thing. Took a month of su days and a couple saturdays thrown in.