Lava Rock information

[Bushman]

I believe this is the thread where it was first introduced and the debate that took place at that time:
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... k#p7003954

[Sungy]

So after some reading I have some questions for those currently using Lava rock. It seems to me that lava rock has the ability to make clean spirits...But I haven't read much about flavored spirits.

1. How long of a 4 inch pipe do I need filled with lava rock for a neutral?
2. If you where to reduce the fill content 75% would you get some flavor carry over?

Some data from those who have tried it, would be greatly appreciated by those of us wanting to try it out. Lets face it lave rock is an easy build compared to plates. Fast take off rates and high ABV are a bonus for all of us when making neutrals. Leaves more of the weekend for sampling your products.

So lets have some data. Whats your experience with flavored spirits?

[S-Cackalacky]

Here is that list Cack by their chemical names.

47.4% Silicon dioxide
14.5% aluminum oxide
1.7% titanium dioxide
13.6% Iron(III) oxide
12.2% Iron Oxide
10.4% calcium oxide
8.0% Magnesium oxide
2.2% Sodium Oxide
0.3% Potassium Oxide
0.2% Phosphorus pentoxide
0.2% Manganese(II) oxide

Thank you Bear. Anybody know if any of that is of any concern?

[rad14701]

Anybody know if any of that is of any concern?

Nope... Looks relatively inert to me, from a safety standpoint...

[Hound Dog]

So after some reading I have some questions for those currently using Lava rock. It seems to me that lava rock has the ability to make clean spirits...But I haven't read much about flavored spirits.

1. How long of a 4 inch pipe do I need filled with lava rock for a neutral?
2. If you where to reduce the fill content 75% would you get some flavor carry over?

Some data from those who have tried it, would be greatly appreciated by those of us wanting to try it out. Lets face it lave rock is an easy build compared to plates. Fast take off rates and high ABV are a bonus for all of us when making neutrals. Leaves more of the weekend for sampling your products.

So lets have some data. Whats your experience with flavored spirits?

These are good questions. I have used it in a 3" × 52" LM section running fast with about 50% reflux to clean up a pot stilled rum that I made. It was too strong flavored and I had a very tailsy taste to it from the pot. Once through the rocks and letting it sit about a month it was pretty smooth.

This same setup I have run sweet feed in my LM after heads were taken off I opened it up to takeoff at about 85%. This still let flavor through without smearing tails into the mix.

[S-Cackalacky]

Thanks Rad - appreciate the response.

[emptyglass]

1. How long of a 4 inch pipe do I need filled with lava rock for a neutral?
2. If you where to reduce the fill content 75% would you get some flavor carry over?

1. About 500mm min, about 600mm max for neutral, but its variable depending on your local source. Large chunks work well, but thats based on what i've used. It may vary with your type of lava rock. The more porus, the better.
It needs to be under the RC and above plates (caps or perfs) for best effect.
I've used it to scrub run and whiskey feints clean.
It could be used above the RC but i havnt tried it there.

2. Its no good for flavored stuff. Its used to strip flavor, so it dosnt gell.
If you used 75% of it, I dont think it would achieve much. The same as if you used copper structured packing in the same way, it would only hinder the results.

Mash Rookie tried lava rock in place of plates, it didnt work. Thats not what its there to do. You still need plates to "clean" the spirit, then the lava rock "polishes" the spirit. Lava rock alone cant clean the spirit.
Your still is modular sungy (iirc) so you can add to the knowledge with some experimentation. What I've mentiond here can give you a few shortcuts. If you find it can help in other ways/set ups, then so be it.

Bushmans link will tell you where it all started. MR was before his time.

[S-Cackalacky]

So after some reading I have some questions for those currently using Lava rock. It seems to me that lava rock has the ability to make clean spirits...But I haven't read much about flavored spirits.

1. How long of a 4 inch pipe do I need filled with lava rock for a neutral?
2. If you where to reduce the fill content 75% would you get some flavor carry over?

Some data from those who have tried it, would be greatly appreciated by those of us wanting to try it out. Lets face it lave rock is an easy build compared to plates. Fast take off rates and high ABV are a bonus for all of us when making neutrals. Leaves more of the weekend for sampling your products.

So lets have some data. Whats your experience with flavored spirits?

These are good questions. I have used it in a 3" × 52" LM section running fast with about 50% reflux to clean up a pot stilled rum that I made. It was too strong flavored and I had a very tailsy taste to it from the pot. Once through the rocks and letting it sit about a month it was pretty smooth.

This same setup I have run sweet feed in my LM after heads were taken off I opened it up to takeoff at about 85%. This still let flavor through without smearing tails into the mix.

So, from what I'm gathering, there would seem to be some other filtering advantage beyond its use as a reflux medium. That raises a question - Would it need to be cleaned a bit more often to remove whatever crap it's filtering out? Are any of those who have been using it for a while doing anything related to this?

Posted while Emptyglass posted.

[emptyglass]

So, from what I'm gathering, there would seem to be some other filtering advantage beyond its use as a reflux medium. That raises a question - Would it need to be cleaned a bit more often to remove whatever crap it's filtering out? Are any of those who have been using it for a while doing anything related to this?

Posted while Emptyglass posted.

Some seem to clean it up by boiling now and then, but its so cheap here its easier to just swap it out.
last call it was $35 a cubic meter.
All the new stuff needs is a good rinse.

[bearriver]

My understanding is that during column distillation, water born impurities descend as they are deposited during the phase change. I don't think that any cleaning is required between runsbut perhaps there may be some benefit before using it for the first time?

If I felt that cleaning was needed, I would then approach it as if it were filtering carbon. Carbon can be cleaned by burning off impurities with something like an oven. That is easy enough to do at home. My rocks got a round in the oven before using them for the first time. It may have been completely unnecessary but I'm no worse for wear.

Edit: posted the same time as EG

[thecroweater]

I really wouldn't bother bearriver, you will find nothing to burn off. just some washing of fines is all you will need to do

[bearriver]

I really wouldn't bother bearriver, you will find nothing to burn off. just some washing of fines is all you will need to do

Considering the temps lava rock is formed at, I'm sure you are spot on.

[S-Cackalacky]

I was thinking more like the accumulation of things like fussel oils and the like. In that case, it would make sense that a good hot water rinse and/or a good hot oven bake might do the trick. That would seem a bit easier than crushing a batch of lava rock every time you need clean reflux medium.

[googe]

I use the same amount as empty, between 500~700mm, but I use small 15mm sqr sizes, when I had a sight glass in my packed section, I noticed some.channelling with large chunks, but that was my first few attempts so I didn't really have any experience. But I do notice a cleaner product with smaller chunks. I used scoria in my 4" x 1m LM. I agree with empty in saying it's not ideal for cleaning flavoured wash, rum flavour will still come through but it will be cleaner. I've always viewed scoria as working like a waste treatment system, you know the ones where they have different filtering mediums in stages, large rocks, then smaller and smaller till the water is clean. When I've done rum through it I see the same affect, the first 6~8" of packing is dirty as hell, then it gets cleaner and cleaner and the top half.or more looks like new, the very top is very clean. I've done scoria in the space between plates, used larger pieces, in my view it did nothing but run like a piece of shit. I've tried it above the rc, in my view it did nothing, the scoria was pretty clean and dry when I looked at after the run. I seem to get the best runs when I can hear the scoria rattling wslightly. btw, the best way to find this stuff out is to test yourself, I don'ttrust theory if it's just theory.

[Hound Dog]

Some seem to clean it up by boiling now and then, but its so cheap here its easier to just swap it out.
last call it was $35 a cubic meter.
All the new stuff needs is a good rinse.

I agree with EG, the stuff is cheap but when it got a little funky smelling on me I gave it a boil and it was good. Cost was not the reason but rather I could not buy the right size and it was easier to boil a pot full than break a new batch up from the larger pieces I get. I will have to put a little effort into it and keep my eye out to find the right size already bagged. I'm sure it's out there.

[Kegg_jam]

I have a question about lava rock consistency. Back when I busted up a pile of rock from a bag I got at lowes. It seemed that some was kinda soft and crumbly and some was harder than hell to even crack. I tried to use the harder pieces but after a while I just started throwing together pieces that were close in size.

Does the density of the rock come into play at all?

[thecroweater]

Yes, it wants to be porous

[bearriver]

I hand picked the least dense and most porous stones from a bag. It took me a few hours sitting by the television to get everything sorted and sized. A worthwhile investment IMO considering the rocks cost all of $5.

[FullySilenced]

I broke my scoria up on an anvil with a 2 pound hammer all solid pieces went to the seconds pile... i blew through the porus stuff and put it in the save pile (almost wore my lips off)... took an hour to fill my column... I then washed it several times and got a lot of red dust and sand from breaking it up... it takes several rinses and agitation or shaking of scoria to get it clean... i then boiled it... and again got some red debris...

I ended up using the crushed scoria, sizes from little finger nail size to thumb nail size...

All this was just after Croweater and Emptyglass released their scoria run data.

I can find no faults with using this when making clean products.. vodka, neutrals or white rums...don't forget higher proof moonshines as well

FS

[pulsetech]

Ok went to our local big hardware today here is Australia. They have sized Scoria. The smallest size grade they had was 20 - 30 mm. 20kg's worth is $10
in the barbeque section they have lava hot rock. This is the exact same stuff from the same supplier in a 3 kg bag for $9.90. I didnt buy any yet because I wanted to check that this is the right stuff. It dark red and highly porous

[pulsetech]

Grabbed a bag to try it out. Now just need to another deathwish wheat germ going

[Hound Dog]

Fairly big stuff, I would bust up some of the most porous pieces and give it a run. I think you I'll like the results.

[pulsetech]

Seems this place has been using lava rock for many many years in commercial production http://www.port-magazine.com/feature/di ... yka-vodka/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[thecroweater]

Interesting link, yeah we have discussed the concept of scoria packed Carter elsewheres in chat. Seems the idea has legs