ccvm

[rad14701]

Do any of these SS VM plans allow for thermometer? I read the post where you all could taste, feel, smell and burn to see where you where, but isn't a therm still good for a complete novice?

Seems I would have to drill a hole into the pretty SS Tee just above the Ferrule ... perhaps a gasket and therm wouldn't be so difficult, though I have never tried to drill into Stainless.

The thermometer should be located above the packing, not above the VM branch, and shielded from liquid reflux...

[Danespirit]

+1 Rad
You could use threaded compressionfittings..
No welding required.
They are dirt cheap on E-bay.
Then you just have to make a hole and cut the threads.
Be careful stainless steel "workhardens", don't force the drill against the material and lubricate.
Just wrap the thermometerprobe in PTFE tape, tighten the fitting without being brutal.

[peacefuldavid]

I was thinking about using a Cross instead of a Tee and putting a thermal well on the opposite side as the vapor draw off side. Would this be too high?

[casper the Irish]

I priced a 3" ss Tee at 25usd and a Y at 75usd on special order. If there is an X, is cost not a factor for you? I would like a Y for easy herb infusion, but at that price? You might do all that for a thermometer and find you don't need one... by the time you have made 200 or 300 litres of beer, got 50litre low wines, made then dispensed with a parrot too. Just KISS and start brewing, there is plenty of time and a lot to learn by making it up as you go. Every time I do a run I want to improve the still. Same pot and keg, different seals/packing/lyne arm/instruments. Now a new head!

As Rad and Danespirit said, potstills are here for good reasons. Personally I use my simple stovetop weekly, I always strip every beer keeping everything that boils. Over months of brewing and stripping is time to build a reflux column.
So don't read or think too much, get brewing and boiling!

It really helped me get started making and learning by doing. I make beer in 25l tubs, then strip on a simple pot stove. Each run teaches me about brewing better beer, improves my setup and measurements, gain experience of hearts and tails... all stuff I need to know for the spirit run later. Do I really need that parrot or thermometers, (getting a refractometer is far more useful), which sugar wash, how to manage AG in my wife's kitchen without getting banned. I get to strip indoors weekly, keep reading and gathering -scrap pipe, packings... When stripping I don't need to know about cuts and temperatures, but I learn about fusels and how to improve a wash. By the time I build my first column I have made beers from molasses, barley and discovered DWWG for neutrals vodka/gin. I have learned that good whiskey is possible on full reflux but gin and vodka is not... I know folks here say the opposite. The trick is to recycle only the best feints, which sometimes needs a potstill to make the cuts (molasses, sugar or fruit have great weak tails, bad strong tails. Hearts on full reflux are rich and sweet, especially with added weak tails)
So although I strip all on my basic stovetop, I am finding the need to switch back and forth from VM to potstill on a spirit run.

[pulsetech]

I priced a 3" ss Tee at 25usd and a Y at 75usd on special order. If there is an X, is cost not a factor for you? I would like a Y for easy herb infusion, but at that price? You might do all that for a thermometer and find you don't need one... by the time you have made 200 or 300 litres of beer, got 50litre low wines, made then dispensed with a parrot too. Just KISS and start brewing, there is plenty of time and a lot to learn by making it up as you go. Every time I do a run I want to improve the still. Same pot and keg, different seals/packing/lyne arm/instruments. Now a new head!

As Rad and Danespirit said, potstills are here for good reasons. Personally I use my simple stovetop weekly, I always strip every beer keeping everything that boils. Over months of brewing and stripping is time to build a reflux column.
So don't read or think too much, get brewing and boiling!

It really helped me get started making and learning by doing. I make beer in 25l tubs, then strip on a simple pot stove. Each run teaches me about brewing better beer, improves my setup and measurements, gain experience of hearts and tails... all stuff I need to know for the spirit run later. Do I really need that parrot or thermometers, (getting a refractometer is far more useful), which sugar wash, how to manage AG in my wife's kitchen without getting banned. I get to strip indoors weekly, keep reading and gathering -scrap pipe, packings... When stripping I don't need to know about cuts and temperatures, but I learn about fusels and how to improve a wash. By the time I build my first column I have made beers from molasses, barley and discovered DWWG for neutrals vodka/gin. I have learned that good whiskey is possible on full reflux but gin and vodka is not... I know folks here say the opposite. The trick is to recycle only the best feints, which sometimes needs a potstill to make the cuts (molasses, sugar or fruit have great weak tails, bad strong tails. Hearts on full reflux are rich and sweet, especially with added weak tails)
So although I strip all on my basic stovetop, I am finding the need to switch back and forth from VM to potstill on a spirit run.

I'm not following you. Are you saying you make whiskey with full reflux and neutral with no reflux? That doesn't not make sense. In very basic terms the more times a wash is distilled the more neutral it becomes. More reflux = more distillations (remember I said very basically) reflux is the spirit returned to the packing or boiler (or plates which are boilers) the more reflux is 're distilled the more neutral it becomes. Is it possible to make vodka with a pot still ? Yes it is but very slow and time consuming. Is it possible to make whiskey with a packed column? Yes but with little to no reflux. Personally I like the flute. I can make a very very good whiskey in one reasonably fast run. Same with rum. I can use it to strip and add my packed section and make a very very good vodka (I make mine from DWWG) I have no issues with ccvm but I just see it easier to control my water flow threw my dephlag

[peacefuldavid]

I've been a homebrewer, wine maker for 20+ years now. I make my beer in 10gal (38l) conical fermenters ... so the beer making isn't a huge learning curve or stretch for me. I am quite familiar with yeasts, yeast nutrients, fermentation temperatures ... only the distillation (and specific recipes) are new for me. I am able to understand most of the comments regarding the science of distillation ... so I have little desire to get the science wrong. Ultimately, the art of distilling ... cuts and such will come down to experience and observation, I know that... bottom line though, I have little reason not to get the science part right since I fully understand what I read.

But with further reading, I have answered my own question. The Cross seems to be an ideal location for the thermometer.

[Danespirit]

I have learned that good whiskey is possible on full reflux but gin and vodka is not... I know folks here say the opposite.

Could you elaborate on this subject..?

[casper the Irish]

I didn't want to stray off topic, but ccvm looks it might solve the feints into hearts process for me. The idea is that if feints carry good and bad flavours, can we make the cuts to remove bad sections and let the good flavours build to smear or blend with hearts.
e.g. Rum has good late heads, a light caramel, hearts progress thru citrus fragrance to liquorice. Fusels follow, all the strong tails are completely foul but late weak tails are golden. I can't make all those cuts on VM, it needs a potstill mode. Plum brandy is the same. The weak tails can be used to dilute hearts, or recycled to low wines to build flavour. I could make a rough cut during the strip to remove fusels from 55% down to 35% leaving good tails in.

But with barley whiskey strong tails are good, and can be collected with hearts on reflux around 90%. However heads and weak tails add taste if added back in potstill strip runs.

I did not get a clean vodka with my low wines on VM. On LM (boka) only the first few pints were good enough. I am inclined to get better results running them at least twice on potstill, by adding low wines to wash. Turning this into Gin, using any reflux is tricky, citrus and spice don't like being stewed in condensates. Roots and seeds can be steeped then potstilled for vapour infusion of the volatile aromatics

[still_stirrin]

....I did not get a clean vodka with my low wines on VM. On LM (boka) only the first few pints were good enough. I am inclined to get better results running them at least twice on potstill, by adding low wines to wash...

I wonder how the heck you're running it. The VM is excellent at compressing tails. And a LM is good for compressing the heads.

So if you squeeze the heads together, refluxing and running out of the LM, then switch to VM, you should be able to run good and steady till the still just about stops producing. That's when you're at the threshold of the tails.

Then, if you want to collect into the tails, switch back to the LM.

For neutrals, I first do a strip using the potstill. Then I run the low wines through the LM/VM combo still. After cutting to clean hearts, I rerun those back through my small (gin) potstill. Triple distillation makes a very nice product, including gin.

...Turning this into Gin, using any reflux is tricky, citrus and spice don't like being stewed in condensates. Roots and seeds can be steeped then potstilled for vapour infusion of the volatile aromatics

I'd recommend you read Odin's easy gin recipe...he outlines where and what to macerate and boil in the boiler...and what should be suspended in the vapor path. No need to reinvent the wheel here, after all, it is a Tried & True.
ss

[casper the Irish]

I would like a peek at your Gin potstill, ss. Yes that's gin and vodka sorted with triple runs on two stills, could a ccvm configure successfully both ways? I think the Y head may be the solution where volume is wanted. But my gin does not seem to keep its aromas, much as I'd like to make 5gal on a run I may be advised to do small batches? How do you stabilise it? I was thinking to take the refluxed hearts and do 3 potstill gin batches to blend- citrus (vapor infusion) , spice (hung in the pot), seed &roots steeped for a week. But on the ccvm it looks like that can be done in one pass. Gin and vodka on a VM potstill combo?

Molasses also benefits from cutting into tails. Reflux can separate rum hearts beautifully but struggles with tails. Back to potstill mode to separate strong and weak feints. Strong are foul fusels, weak are fine golden oils.

Grain like barley seems to hold flavours in the strong tails. Some Irish distilleries use refluxed hearts blended. I am trying to use Reflux for whiskey without pushing into tails when the flow slows. If I then could switch to potstill mode, currently by emptying the remaining shite into my next beer strip, then I double the tails in that (pot) strip. That way the strong tails push themselves into hearts next run. A new Dublin distillery has set up with 3 copper pots to do something similar- beer strip, all feints weak tails back to beer, strong tails into spirit run

[pulsetech]

Flute baby. Compress heads yet drag out the tails as fast as you want.

[still_stirrin]

....Yes that's gin and vodka sorted with triple runs on two stills, could a ccvm configure successfully both ways? I think the Y head may be the solution where volume is wanted. But my gin does not seem to keep its aromas, much as I'd like to make 5gal on a run I may be advised to do small batches? How do you stabilise it? I was thinking to take the refluxed hearts and do 3 potstill gin batches to blend- citrus (vapor infusion) , spice (hung in the pot), seed &roots steeped for a week....

First off, restating the obvious...the CCVM is a vapor managed reflux still. It sits on top of a packed column (for neutrals to properly reflux through). You cannot expect a potstill function (yes, it has its own function) through a reflux column.

My reflux head is a combination liquid managed (concentric cup instead of the Boka design) and vapor manage (with a valve unlike Dad's CCVM). All reflux is condensed in the concentric condenser at the top and the liquid is collected above the vapor takeoff. As a result, I can switch between LM and VM by opening the VM valve and closing the liquid takeoff valve.

To get a combination reflux and potstill operation, you'd need the reflux column, of course. But you'd also need a separate potstill riser. Both would be independent of each other, yet connecting to the same boiler. Googe built a version of the multi-column/riser still, so have a look at his. Its complex but gives him a great deal of flexibility during his run.

My gin still is a simple potstill, smaller because the wash has already been through a strip and spirit run. Cuts have already been made such that its only the hearts running. It preserves the flavors and aroma of the infusion just like Odin prescribes.

Since cost versus infrastructure is "user subjective", I always think....right tool for the job. And I build my own equipment as I am a plumber from way back and a mechanical design engineer before retiring. I know the processes because I've been a home brewer for nearly 30 years and have brewed in a local brewpub as a guest brewer.
ss

[casper the Irish]

Good advice SS. It does seem both potstill and reflux column stills are essential, and work well together, I certainly use my stovetop by far most often. I also run two stills, but surely DAD showed ccvm can convert from one t'other with just a wee cap?
Ccvm offers VM, LM, or potstill on the same still by capping a port, same column and head. I know there's packing, but that's greater fractional separation, a super lyne arm. For Gin the volatiles of course can't be steeped nor refluxed, but on ccvm can be suspended above the packing, seeds and roots are happy undergoing some reflux, or even steeped for a week

On ccvm the cc is disconnected and capped. To run it as a gin still a bag of citrus peel can be hung in its place, another bag with spices hung below the column.

for Rum: after hearts remove cc and continue as potstill, discarding strong tails and keeping weak tails

Or grain whiskey: push into strong tails before capping and run off weak tails to low wines.

Can I have a peek at that gin still of yours, ss? I tried a 40l run on VM. Citrus volatiles were strong for a few pints then are too quickly taken out, and spices get overcooked. Small batches on potstill must be the way to go. My gin flavours are fading back to neutral after a few months. How do you stabilise it?

[still_stirrin]

....Can I have a peek at that gin still of yours, ss?.... My gin flavours are fading back to neutral after a few months. How do you stabilize it?

Casper, I'll open a new thread and post some photos. We can continue the discussion there. I don't want to derail the OP's thread here, as it is a very good discussion.

Sorry for the off topic discussion here. But there is a very good gin thread already....Odin's easy gin in the Tried & True recipes.
ss