Feints Experiment

[SilverBullet]

I ran off a carboy of all feints from birdwatchers heads/tails, in my CM reflux and wasn't happy with it after the cuts. So out of what I've kept, I diluted it down to 40% and added baking soda, 1 tsb to every litre. I'll run it one last time.

How many days should I let it sit before distilling? I noticed the soda settles on the bottom and never really mixes in, do I strain it off before adding it to the boiler when its time?

[sungazer]

I don't know what still you used in the initial runs and how high a ABV you collected at the time. However in a all sugar wash there is not much else in it other than Ethanol and water in a 40L wash I would guesstimate at less than half a liter 200ml at the beginning and 300 mL or less at the end. So if you had this type of cuts in the first place it doesn't matter what you do this stuff will always be undrinkable.

[still_stirrin]

SilverBullet,
Here's a link discussing baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) and soda ash (sodium carbonate):
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3477

To reduce the ethyl acetates (in feints) I use sodium carbonate in the boiler. I use soda ash insted of baking soda because it is 10 times more effective than baking soda to reduce the acetates. And it activates when the wash boils...so you don't need to soak it for any duration...straight into the boiler.

As far as "what you did", you'll be OK to run it. But what you "didn't do" is your homework. A very simple search brings up extensive discussions of both baking soda and soda ash uses, advantages, and disadvantages. Try using it...the search tools.
ss

[SilverBullet]

SilverBullet,
Here's a link discussing baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) and soda ash (sodium carbonate):
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3477

To reduce the ethyl acetates (in feints) I use sodium carbonate in the boiler. I use soda ash insted of baking soda because it is 10 times more effective than baking soda to reduce the acetates. And it activates when the wash boils...so you don't need to soak it for any duration...straight into the boiler.

As far as "what you did", you'll be OK to run it. But what you "didn't do" is your homework. A very simple search brings up extensive discussions of both baking soda and soda ash uses, advantages, and disadvantages. Try using it...the search tools.
ss

Thank you for answering my question, I appreciate it. But no need for the constant reminder for the people that are reading, reading and reading. You been around for a couple years now and your a stand up guy for helping others but don't forget what it's like to learn something new. There is years and years of material on this site, it's not as easy as you think to find things with all the topics the board. It's a little overwhelming and no one can retain all that info. It's always nice to get support along the way. If I'm out of line saying so then I'll respectfully leave.

Friendly speaking on behalf of all the newbies.

[rgreen2002]

SS...where do you get you soda ash? Is there something "over the counter" that is useful (arm and hammer makes a laundry detergent that has it) or do you go for something more refined?

[GrassHopper]

SilverBullet,
Here's a link discussing baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) and soda ash (sodium carbonate):
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3477

To reduce the ethyl acetates (in feints) I use sodium carbonate in the boiler. I use soda ash insted of baking soda because it is 10 times more effective than baking soda to reduce the acetates. And it activates when the wash boils...so you don't need to soak it for any duration...straight into the boiler.

As far as "what you did", you'll be OK to run it. But what you "didn't do" is your homework. A very simple search brings up extensive discussions of both baking soda and soda ash uses, advantages, and disadvantages. Try using it...the search tools.
ss

Thank you for answering my question, I appreciate it. But no need for the constant reminder for the people that are reading, reading and reading. You been around for a couple years now and your a stand up guy for helping others but don't forget what it's like to learn something new. There is years and years of material on this site, it's not as easy as you think to find things with all the topics the board. It's a little overwhelming and no one can retain all that info. It's always nice to get support along the way. If I'm out of line saying so then I'll respectfully leave.

Friendly speaking on behalf of all the newbies.

What still_stirrin was saying is that there is plenty of info on the site already. I just searched the topic and there are over 50 topics just on Sodium Carbonate. Probably a lot more on Sodium Bicarbonate or Baking soda. Now you can do the homework.
He was not being disrespectful, but helpful. Friendly speaking on behalf of.....well, the rest of us.
Heres some help: (:
homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=22130
homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3477
homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=42795
homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=41942
homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=31301
homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=25274
homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11001
homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=20356
http://www.ww.homedistiller.org/forum/v ... 36&t=17204" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=19952

There are many more.

[still_stirrin]

SS...where do you get you soda ash? Is there something "over the counter" that is useful (arm and hammer makes a laundry detergent that has it) or do you go for something more refined?

I make it at home using baking soda.

Here: http://chemistry.about.com/od/makechemi ... g-Soda.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Remember, it is a much stronger base than baking soda, so don't overdose your feints wash.
ss

[sungazer]

And if you use google there are a few topics that are a little more science based. I think it may be a little beyond just using baking soda or it would have been mentioned in these papers.

https://www.google.com.au/patents/US4379028" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ie070658m" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[Yummyrum]

Not sure about the states but in Australia we can buy sodium carbonate as "washing soda " in the local suppermarket in the detergent isle.
Its been around for ever and now it's marketed as an environmentaly safe cleaning product .


Incidentally its a great electolyte for electrolytic rust removal...I use it at work for this

[still_stirrin]

...in Australia we can buy sodium carbonate as "washing soda " in the local suppermarket in the detergent isle...

So there is. Just make sure there isn't any perfume agents in it...it wouldn't kill you, but could make your liquor distasteful.

Plus, making my own is very inexpensive...baking soda is less than $1USD for a 10 oz (285 g) box, and that's enough to treat several feints runs.

I guess with the washing soda you could always do a few loads of laundry while you're stilling....a big plus for the WAF!

ss

[rad14701]

I use Arm and Hammer washing soda... The sole ingredient listed is sodium carbonate...

[SilverBullet]

I ran it off today and decided I'll never do it again. Trying to squeeze more good liquor with the use of detergents out of feints from sugar washes isn't my cup of tea. No more feints collection for me

Thanks folks

[rad14701]

I ran it off today and decided I'll never do it again. Trying to squeeze more good liquor with the use of detergents out of feints from sugar washes isn't my cup of tea. No more feints collection for me

Thanks folks

What was your process for handling your feints...??? Did you add sodium carbonate and let the feints sit for a week or two, or did you try running immediately...??? Keep in mind, feints from a spirit run through a reflux column can be less than desirable from a re-running perspective...

I just water my feints down and run them without adding anything extra... I mix the feints from stripping runs and spirit runs together but leave out any really skanky smelling jars... Over the years I've managed to squeeze a lot of good alcohol out of my feints jugs... YMMV...

[SilverBullet]

I ran it off today and decided I'll never do it again. Trying to squeeze more good liquor with the use of detergents out of feints from sugar washes isn't my cup of tea. No more feints collection for me

Thanks folks

What was your process for handling your feints...??? Did you add sodium carbonate and let the feints sit for a week or two, or did you try running immediately...??? Keep in mind, feints from a spirit run through a reflux column can be less than desirable from a re-running perspective...

I just water my feints down and run them without adding anything extra... I mix the feints from stripping runs and spirit runs together but leave out any really skanky smelling jars... Over the years I've managed to squeeze a lot of good alcohol out of my feints jugs... YMMV...

Well my CM is a 3"column, 5 feet tall packed with 7 rolls of copper mesh. A Dephlegmator reflux condenser, liebig product condenser. I've done many birdwatchers runs with no complaints and collected an all feints run. Everything collected was high abv, no stripping runs. Just the heads and tails from my cuts. Filled a carboy with feints, diluted it down to 40% and ran it. Never cared for the product so after reading on the baking soda topics.... I thought I'd experiment with it and see if it would make it better. Following some direction from Still_Stirrin and the link he dug up, I ran it pretty much immediately (a day after), I added the soda and under full reflux of 15min, to give it a good boil, I started pulling product.

The out come.... I had ended up with half of much shit out of all the shit I started with.
Never again. In my inexperience, I at least tried it and now know not to do it again. Which is no more saving for an all feints run off of spirit runs. With sugar washes anyway

[rad14701]

Ok, if you only collected feints from spirit runs through a reflux column you should have diluted to a lower %ABV, more like 20% - 30%... Water being the ideal filter that it is, the more you add the more filtering it can do... It's been mentioned here and there within feints topics about diluting lower than the safety margin of 40% ABV but I can see how the 40% figure would be more memorable...

[SilverBullet]

Ok, if you only collected feints from spirit runs through a reflux column you should have diluted to a lower %ABV, more like 20% - 30%... Water being the ideal filter that it is, the more you add the more filtering it can do... It's been mentioned here and there within feints topics about diluting lower than the safety margin of 40% ABV but I can see how the 40% figure would be more memorable...

Ok, but I'll just try the soda on stripping runs for neutrals. Not much interested in messing with the spirit batches anymore. I'll likely just add the tails into my next runs and toss the heads. Thanks rad

[sungazer]

Now that you post your still make up and the % ABV you were taking off it is even clearer to me that you have a good still that can fraction out the heads and tails well. This is the stuff that is tainted Ethanol for a better word or more precisely Ethanol that is tightly chemical bound to other elements such as the Ethel acetate then there are the other non Ethenol compounds that have similar boiling points as an extreme example methanol. No matter how many time you run these compounds they will remain the same by collecting them and saving them you only end up with a large quantity of them. Read the scientific papers there really is no simple way to separate these just accept them for what they are cleaning Alcohols.

[still_stirrin]

...I'll likely just...toss the heads.

OK, but there is good alcohol in the heads.

The sodium carbonate helps break down the ethyl acetate which is part of the solvent/fruity character (and headache producer). So, the reduction produces more clean alcohol which is recoverable. If you have an LM reflux column, you can compress the heads way up into the fores and manage to scavenge good ethanol out of the feints. It's there if you want it....but you've got to work for it.

I save feints and run a reflux run with a half teaspoon of sodium carbonate per 2-liters of feints. I do get some good ethanol (high proof) out of the run and the rest gets recycled again.

But it's up to you what you want to do, however.
ss

[rgreen2002]

SS...where do you get you soda ash? Is there something "over the counter" that is useful (arm and hammer makes a laundry detergent that has it) or do you go for something more refined?

I make it at home using baking soda.

Here: http://chemistry.about.com/od/makechemi ... g-Soda.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Remember, it is a much stronger base than baking soda, so don't overdose your feints wash.
ss

SS - this is fantastic! Thanks for this info.

Sorry to interrupt the thread...

[SilverBullet]

Thank you Still_Stirrin