Induction cooktop
Moderator: Site Moderator
- rgreen2002
- Distiller
- Posts: 1309
- Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:57 pm
- Location: Northeastern USA
Induction cooktop
Just thought I would drop a quick note here. For the folks using a hotplate or other electric device, I recently picked this up...
Amazon recently had a price drop and for the cost, I think it does a great job for my 5 gallon stock pot Boka setup.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0045Q ... ge_o09_s00" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
It maintains great temps and I have loved using it. I may be biased as I did switch from a conventional hotplate to this but for the price... not too shabby.
Remember, with the induction just be sure you have the appropriate cookware or you will need to use a diffuser.. like this one:
...just thought ya might like to know
Amazon recently had a price drop and for the cost, I think it does a great job for my 5 gallon stock pot Boka setup.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0045Q ... ge_o09_s00" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
It maintains great temps and I have loved using it. I may be biased as I did switch from a conventional hotplate to this but for the price... not too shabby.
Remember, with the induction just be sure you have the appropriate cookware or you will need to use a diffuser.. like this one:
...just thought ya might like to know
HD Glossary - Open this
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers - start here
BEST WAY TO GET ANSWERS FROM HOME DISTILLER
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers - start here
BEST WAY TO GET ANSWERS FROM HOME DISTILLER
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."
- still_stirrin
- Master of Distillation
- Posts: 10372
- Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:01 am
- Location: where the buffalo roam, and the deer & antelope play
Re: Induction cooktop
Does it come with breakfast like that too?
ss
ss
My LM/VM & Potstill: My build thread
My Cadco hotplate modification thread: Hotplate Build
My stock pot gin still: stock pot potstill
My 5-grain Bourbon recipe: Special K
My Cadco hotplate modification thread: Hotplate Build
My stock pot gin still: stock pot potstill
My 5-grain Bourbon recipe: Special K
- rgreen2002
- Distiller
- Posts: 1309
- Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:57 pm
- Location: Northeastern USA
Re: Induction cooktop
...guess I set myself up for that one.still_stirrin wrote:Does it come with breakfast like that too?
ss

HD Glossary - Open this
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers - start here
BEST WAY TO GET ANSWERS FROM HOME DISTILLER
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers - start here
BEST WAY TO GET ANSWERS FROM HOME DISTILLER
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."
-
- Bootlegger
- Posts: 118
- Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:37 am
- Location: Midwest
Re: Induction cooktop
There have been some comments about how these devices will attempt to regulate the temperature of the pot, which wouldn't be desirable. However, from the product write-up, it appears that you can set power levels, not temperatures. Is that correct? When you run with this, do you leave it at full power during the run, or do you adjust as you go? Does the heating seem to be continuous, or does it cycle?
Thanks for posting about this unit, it is something that I'm considering to replace my hot-plate.
Thanks for posting about this unit, it is something that I'm considering to replace my hot-plate.
- S-Cackalacky
- retired
- Posts: 5990
- Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:35 pm
- Location: Virginia, USA
Re: Induction cooktop
That's a good price. I like that it's 1800W. I have a two burner 1500W hotplate in the basement for heating water and such. It takes forever to bring a few gallons of water to boil.
Every new member should read this before doing anything else:
- der wo
- Master of Distillation
- Posts: 3817
- Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:40 am
- Location: Rote Flora, Hamburg
Re: Induction cooktop
Normally they cycle. But faster than normal hotplates. If your pot has a thick bottom it's ok. But normally they have an electronic heat protection control (sorry, I don't know the correct english word). It switchs a few seconds off, when it's too hot. I used a hotplate with 2.2kW, but after heating up it began to cycle also at full power, so in average I only had 1.5kW. Because of that I now use an old normal hotplate without any electronic control.
And I have read, this diffusers work very badly. They get very hot and the heat protection control switches much more often.
Professional induction hotplates should work, but they are expensive (Sorry, german link):
http://www.amazon.de/Hendi-Induktionsko ... B0050GD02Y" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Many german hombrewers use them. Perhaps you get better info at hombrew forums.
And I have read, this diffusers work very badly. They get very hot and the heat protection control switches much more often.
Professional induction hotplates should work, but they are expensive (Sorry, german link):
http://www.amazon.de/Hendi-Induktionsko ... B0050GD02Y" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Many german hombrewers use them. Perhaps you get better info at hombrew forums.
In this way, imperialism brings catastrophe as a mode of existence back from the periphery of capitalist development to its point of departure. - Rosa Luxemburg
- rgreen2002
- Distiller
- Posts: 1309
- Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:57 pm
- Location: Northeastern USA
Re: Induction cooktop
Johnny6 wrote:There have been some comments about how these devices will attempt to regulate the temperature of the pot, which wouldn't be desirable. However, from the product write-up, it appears that you can set power levels, not temperatures. Is that correct? When you run with this, do you leave it at full power during the run, or do you adjust as you go? Does the heating seem to be continuous, or does it cycle?
Thanks for posting about this unit, it is something that I'm considering to replace my hot-plate.
J6 - you can set power levels with this unit. It was a big factor in my choosing it. I will start a run at full power and as I reach temp (i will run a pot to strip (full power) then a boka for spirit) I will drop the temp to maintain equilibrium. Coming from an old electric hotplate which I could see the cycling of on/off...I cannot tell when this unit is doing so. My last boka run...my temps were as stable as possible down to the tenth of a degree. I'm glad you could use the info too...it's the whole reason i dropped the post. Ive taken so much info from this site that giving back seems like my duty.
I do have a thick bottom stock pot as der wo mentioned and because of this I do not need a diffuser. I cannot really tell you about the performance of the diffuser (never using one) so I will thank der wo for his info and defer to his experience.
SC - not sure how long it took to get things to boil but it really didn't seem too long at 1800 kw. I will check sometime and repost.
I have to agree that while this isn't the "best" overall option for heating, using it for a small or apartment system... its quite good. And for the price hard to beat
HD Glossary - Open this
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers - start here
BEST WAY TO GET ANSWERS FROM HOME DISTILLER
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers - start here
BEST WAY TO GET ANSWERS FROM HOME DISTILLER
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."
- der wo
- Master of Distillation
- Posts: 3817
- Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:40 am
- Location: Rote Flora, Hamburg
Re: Induction cooktop
You need these diffusers, if you want to use non-magnetic cookware.
But look at the many bad reviews on amazon...
But look at the many bad reviews on amazon...
Nothing we want.amazon customer wrote:Takes longer to cook than using induction pots directly. So the speed of an induction cooker is lost somewhat. Works best if you want to heat or cook slowly without any urgency. Overheats easily leading to an error signal on my induction cooker (thankfully my cooker has overheating detector, otherwise could burn the pot and the cooker).
In this way, imperialism brings catastrophe as a mode of existence back from the periphery of capitalist development to its point of departure. - Rosa Luxemburg
- rgreen2002
- Distiller
- Posts: 1309
- Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:57 pm
- Location: Northeastern USA
Re: Induction cooktop
der wo wrote:You need these diffusers, if you want to use non-magnetic cookware.
But look at the many bad reviews on amazon...Nothing we want.amazon customer wrote:Takes longer to cook than using induction pots directly. So the speed of an induction cooker is lost somewhat. Works best if you want to heat or cook slowly without any urgency. Overheats easily leading to an error signal on my induction cooker (thankfully my cooker has overheating detector, otherwise could burn the pot and the cooker).
Agreed. Seems like the diffuser is not near as good as an induction ready piece of cookware. The one other thing about the unit that i'm not fond of is that it automatically shuts off after a certain time. It's not a huge deal as I just set a countdown time and pre-emptively turn it off and on again to reset this time related shut off.
HD Glossary - Open this
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers - start here
BEST WAY TO GET ANSWERS FROM HOME DISTILLER
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers - start here
BEST WAY TO GET ANSWERS FROM HOME DISTILLER
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."
- rgreen2002
- Distiller
- Posts: 1309
- Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:57 pm
- Location: Northeastern USA
Re: Induction cooktop
I wanted to drop a note here to give a little follow up on the performance of this heater. Today I ran two strip runs of Rogers Tequila recipe (http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 11&t=35090). Its basically a sugar wash with some agave (or you can run full agave...thank you Alchemist) and has gotten some great reviews. For the purpose of this thread...sugar wash.
I have a 5 gallon boiler and two 4.5 gallon washes to strip. The wash: OG 1.070, FG 1.000 in 4.5 gallons is about 9% EtOH if I am doing the math right. Boh washes about the same.
I ran a detuned boka - 25 in column with no packing. Ran it hard and fast both times.
Run one: time to first product - 63 minutes. Time to last product (run to just below 20% ABV) 2 hours 26 minutes
Run two: time to first product - 59 minutes. Time to last product (run to just below 20% ABV) 2 hours and 35 minutes
The whole run (aside from the first few minutes i guess...
) this is the rate of output.
I did not time it to obtain a oz/min or anything but I got about 0.75 gallon from both runs.
So...0.75 gallon/83 = 0.009 gallons per minute
... AKA..1.15 oz/min (sometimes I forget how much I love the metric system)
Subsequently: 0.75/96 = 0.008 gallons per minute or 1.024oz/min
This rate was pretty darn constant so if this thing is cycling I cannot tell. I don't own the company or anything I just think for my small scale system and for the price it does a pretty good job.
I have a 5 gallon boiler and two 4.5 gallon washes to strip. The wash: OG 1.070, FG 1.000 in 4.5 gallons is about 9% EtOH if I am doing the math right. Boh washes about the same.
I ran a detuned boka - 25 in column with no packing. Ran it hard and fast both times.
Run one: time to first product - 63 minutes. Time to last product (run to just below 20% ABV) 2 hours 26 minutes
Run two: time to first product - 59 minutes. Time to last product (run to just below 20% ABV) 2 hours and 35 minutes
The whole run (aside from the first few minutes i guess...

I did not time it to obtain a oz/min or anything but I got about 0.75 gallon from both runs.
So...0.75 gallon/83 = 0.009 gallons per minute

Subsequently: 0.75/96 = 0.008 gallons per minute or 1.024oz/min
This rate was pretty darn constant so if this thing is cycling I cannot tell. I don't own the company or anything I just think for my small scale system and for the price it does a pretty good job.
HD Glossary - Open this
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers - start here
BEST WAY TO GET ANSWERS FROM HOME DISTILLER
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers - start here
BEST WAY TO GET ANSWERS FROM HOME DISTILLER
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."
- S-Cackalacky
- retired
- Posts: 5990
- Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:35 pm
- Location: Virginia, USA
Re: Induction cooktop
Thanks for posting that up for others to reference. Those aren't bad numbers for the size still you have. I also run a 5 gallon pot. I run a 240V 5500W internal element on 110V - so, I get 1375W. I get close to the same numbers with that size charge. It would seem that the hotplate is doing a decent job. I would be happy with those numbers. If it's adjustable without cycling, you should have good results with your spirit run.
Every new member should read this before doing anything else:
- rgreen2002
- Distiller
- Posts: 1309
- Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:57 pm
- Location: Northeastern USA
Re: Induction cooktop
S-Cack: Glad to do it. Ive gotten so much from everybody here I try to contribute where I can. The only reason I know what I know is either from reading here or making all the mistakes to learn by...S-Cackalacky wrote:Thanks for posting that up for others to reference. Those aren't bad numbers for the size still you have. I also run a 5 gallon pot. I run a 240V 5500W internal element on 110V - so, I get 1375W. I get close to the same numbers with that size charge. It would seem that the hotplate is doing a decent job. I would be happy with those numbers. If it's adjustable without cycling, you should have good results with your spirit run.
I thought it was useful info too... a lot of apartment runners who cannot get an element installed or want something that totally breaks down or whatever. I think then numbers are quite good as well and I certainly am happy with them...
As far as things go...you know how this goes S-Cack... Got a lead on a cheap keg from my homebrew store and I'm sure you can see whats coming. I'm thinking... I sure do a lot of work for a liter or two of the good stuff. That keg with two 2000 W elements installed (two to heat: one on a direct line and one to keep it going on a controller) sounds feasible. I'm staying with 120 v... I see how much headache raketemensch has been having recently and while I understand electricity in theory...my practical isn't enough to keep me from burning down the house!

Someone here has in their signature a quote from the great Yogi Berra that applies here: "In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."
HD Glossary - Open this
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers - start here
BEST WAY TO GET ANSWERS FROM HOME DISTILLER
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers - start here
BEST WAY TO GET ANSWERS FROM HOME DISTILLER
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."
- raketemensch
- Distiller
- Posts: 2001
- Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 2:10 pm
- Location: Tralfamadore
Re: Induction cooktop
Oh man, don't let my stupidity slow you down. For every one of my failures there are dozens of people who succeed.
- rgreen2002
- Distiller
- Posts: 1309
- Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:57 pm
- Location: Northeastern USA
Re: Induction cooktop
HAHA...hilarious! I'm really sorry to hear how bad a go you're having at it raketemensch. Ive been watching your journey lately.... sometimes it is nice to be reminded everybody hits a stumbling block occasionally.raketemensch wrote:Oh man, don't let my stupidity slow you down. For every one of my failures there are dozens of people who succeed.
Keep up the great work.
HD Glossary - Open this
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers - start here
BEST WAY TO GET ANSWERS FROM HOME DISTILLER
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers - start here
BEST WAY TO GET ANSWERS FROM HOME DISTILLER
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."
- raketemensch
- Distiller
- Posts: 2001
- Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 2:10 pm
- Location: Tralfamadore
Re: Induction cooktop
It's all good. Considering that I'm less than 3 months into this and can only spare a weekend day here and there, I'm in pretty solid shape, all told. Thanks to these forums, of course.rgreen2002 wrote:HAHA...hilarious! I'm really sorry to hear how bad a go you're having at it raketemensch. Ive been watching your journey lately.... sometimes it is nice to be reminded everybody hits a stumbling block occasionally.raketemensch wrote:Oh man, don't let my stupidity slow you down. For every one of my failures there are dozens of people who succeed.
Keep up the great work.
I suppose I've gotten frustrated once or twice, but it's always moving forward on multiple paths, and I've never actually been stopped dead.
- rgreen2002
- Distiller
- Posts: 1309
- Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:57 pm
- Location: Northeastern USA
Re: Induction cooktop
OK ...last info from me about this thing... Spirit run. Went great. Had 2 minor glitches and one I think was due to running out the good Etoh and switching into tails so...not really a glitch.
This was a little over a 4 hour run. I had a charge of about 1.5 gallons of 45% Rogers Tequila recipe I diluted with backset to about 30%. Total volume was around 2-2.5 gallons. Heat up to first product was 30 minutes.
The dip near the end was a big temp change where I was noticing tails smell/taste so I assume it was directly related to the tails coming out.

This was a little over a 4 hour run. I had a charge of about 1.5 gallons of 45% Rogers Tequila recipe I diluted with backset to about 30%. Total volume was around 2-2.5 gallons. Heat up to first product was 30 minutes.
The dip near the end was a big temp change where I was noticing tails smell/taste so I assume it was directly related to the tails coming out.
HD Glossary - Open this
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers - start here
BEST WAY TO GET ANSWERS FROM HOME DISTILLER
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers - start here
BEST WAY TO GET ANSWERS FROM HOME DISTILLER
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."
-
- Rumrunner
- Posts: 739
- Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2015 5:49 am
Re: Induction cooktop
Nicely done 
Although I find it weird that the temp dropped when you hit tails. I would have thought they would rise.

Although I find it weird that the temp dropped when you hit tails. I would have thought they would rise.
- rgreen2002
- Distiller
- Posts: 1309
- Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:57 pm
- Location: Northeastern USA
Re: Induction cooktop
Monkeyman88 wrote:Nicely done
Although I find it weird that the temp dropped when you hit tails. I would have thought they would rise.
...good point MM. i can say that the temps were all over the place and I was only recording temps at the 10 minute mark. The did rise right back up and I surpass the "baseline". The fluctuations lasted about 1-2 minutes. I hit SOME transition... I just guessed tails because that is where I was in the run but you should be correct....hmmmm
HD Glossary - Open this
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers - start here
BEST WAY TO GET ANSWERS FROM HOME DISTILLER
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers - start here
BEST WAY TO GET ANSWERS FROM HOME DISTILLER
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."
-
- Rumrunner
- Posts: 739
- Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2015 5:49 am
Re: Induction cooktop
Did the output stop at any point? If it did, it's possible that when you hit tails, there was not enough heat to keep the column stacked and it dropped out and started to cool. Could be shear coincidence that you caught it with the probe. Lol
- rgreen2002
- Distiller
- Posts: 1309
- Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:57 pm
- Location: Northeastern USA
Re: Induction cooktop
The output did stutter... and then with increasing power it would pick back up so I assume a regular phenomenon nearing the end of the run... Coincidence is my middle name...Monkeyman88 wrote:Did the output stop at any point? If it did, it's possible that when you hit tails, there was not enough heat to keep the column stacked and it dropped out and started to cool. Could be shear coincidence that you caught it with the probe. Lol

HD Glossary - Open this
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers - start here
BEST WAY TO GET ANSWERS FROM HOME DISTILLER
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers - start here
BEST WAY TO GET ANSWERS FROM HOME DISTILLER
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."
-
- Rumrunner
- Posts: 739
- Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2015 5:49 am
Re: Induction cooktop
No that sounds about right. Maybe it was just a random thing. Lol. See if it happens on your next run too.
- rgreen2002
- Distiller
- Posts: 1309
- Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:57 pm
- Location: Northeastern USA
Re: Induction cooktop
LOL...I hope not. I was using the thermo to see if the hotplate would keep stable temps. As much as I like it.... there is a shiny keg in my basement just waiting for me to tell her what to do. Just gotta tune her up first.Monkeyman88 wrote:No that sounds about right. Maybe it was just a random thing. Lol. See if it happens on your next run too.
I will probably start by enticing her with the 50 lb of corn in my trunk...
HD Glossary - Open this
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers - start here
BEST WAY TO GET ANSWERS FROM HOME DISTILLER
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers - start here
BEST WAY TO GET ANSWERS FROM HOME DISTILLER
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."
- Mikey-moo
- Distiller
- Posts: 1498
- Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:54 am
Re: Induction cooktop
I'm late to this thread I know - sorry for dredging it back up. I just wanted to add that I run on a 2kw induction hob with my 3 gallon boiler that allows me to select the power level in 200W increments.
It does cycle at low power levels - 200W, 400W and 600W. But from 800W upwards it's steady and doesn't cycle anymore. I found this out by putting my stock pot with an inch of water in it and heating it on full power until boiling. I then dropped the power one level at a time and watched to see if the boiling stopped/changed.
It also has the option to run by temperature. But we don't do that here for obvious reasons - I've also never found the temperatures to be very accurate, so it's power all the way.
I am very tempted to upgrade to a 3KW catering version but I can't find any reviews online to say if they cycle or not...
It does cycle at low power levels - 200W, 400W and 600W. But from 800W upwards it's steady and doesn't cycle anymore. I found this out by putting my stock pot with an inch of water in it and heating it on full power until boiling. I then dropped the power one level at a time and watched to see if the boiling stopped/changed.
It also has the option to run by temperature. But we don't do that here for obvious reasons - I've also never found the temperatures to be very accurate, so it's power all the way.
I am very tempted to upgrade to a 3KW catering version but I can't find any reviews online to say if they cycle or not...
Best place to start for newbies - click here - Courtesy of Cranky :-)
If you have used this site to save money by making your own top quality booze at home then please consider donating a couple of dollars to help keep this site running. Cheers!
If you have used this site to save money by making your own top quality booze at home then please consider donating a couple of dollars to help keep this site running. Cheers!
-
- retired
- Posts: 20865
- Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:46 pm
- Location: New York, USA
Re: Induction cooktop
It's always cycling, it's just a matter of the frequency and duration as to whether or not it has a noticeable impact on performance... I used to run on an electric stove that was the same way in that at the settings I heated at there was virtually no signs of cycling even without a heat sink/diffusion plate...Mikey-moo wrote:It does cycle at low power levels - 200W, 400W and 600W. But from 800W upwards it's steady and doesn't cycle anymore. I found this out by putting my stock pot with an inch of water in it and heating it on full power until boiling. I then dropped the power one level at a time and watched to see if the boiling stopped/changed.
- Mikey-moo
- Distiller
- Posts: 1498
- Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:54 am
Re: Induction cooktop
As long as I don't notice it then it's ok by me.
Best place to start for newbies - click here - Courtesy of Cranky :-)
If you have used this site to save money by making your own top quality booze at home then please consider donating a couple of dollars to help keep this site running. Cheers!
If you have used this site to save money by making your own top quality booze at home then please consider donating a couple of dollars to help keep this site running. Cheers!
- papapro
- Bootlegger
- Posts: 127
- Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 6:56 am
- Location: Ontario
Re: Induction cooktop
Guys look at NU-wave cooktop there are two models 1300 W and 1800W 1300 has temp settings at every 10 deg F and 1800 at every 5 deg F
the fluctuation on 1300 i 20 - 30 watts per sec and maintain temps very good I use it for las few years.
At 180 deg F is slow run and power 670 to 690 W after middle run I can set to 210 to get all the tails.
the fluctuation on 1300 i 20 - 30 watts per sec and maintain temps very good I use it for las few years.
At 180 deg F is slow run and power 670 to 690 W after middle run I can set to 210 to get all the tails.
Yes I am a Novice with 40+ years of doing this hobby
distilling is like sex the slower the better and everyone is happy
fermenting is opposit to sex the faster the better
distilling is like sex the slower the better and everyone is happy
fermenting is opposit to sex the faster the better