Aussie questions about wiring electric element (house amps)

[theBrokenDoor]

Hello all,

I am an Australian with an offset reflux still and have been using it for 8yrs, but now making some upgrades to the boiler and heating which was just terrible to work with. The boiler was only about 9L stock pot, and the heat source an induction hot plate. The hot plate worked ok, but eventually my original one broke and my replacements were such poor quality they haven't even lasted a single run before electrocuting or just not working.

I've bought a bigger (19L) stock pot, and looking to install an element inside. Bought a copper 3,600W hot water element, and starting to wire it. My concern at the moment is the house wiring: which is quite modern (15yrs old, Australian) and has 16A 240V circuit breakers installed and an RCD. The element would be ~15 Amps, so should be able to run on the circuit, but I am concerned the sockets may be rated to only 10A. Not sure if that is a big deal or not - would the only consequence be likelihood of tripping the circuit if something else is plugged in to the same circuit, or could it cause fire / heat in the walls?

I was considering cutting into a 15A extension cord for a caravan or computer power supply and wiring to the element, which would mean the only possible underrated equipment is the wall socket. But I've heard from some places that the main difference between a 15A and 10A socket is the size of the grounding pin (ie a socket can take higher amperage, just is made incompatible in case the rest of the electric system cannot take it). Given all my power points have 2 sockets, the wiring leading to it should be able to take more than 15A regardless.

As far as I can see the options are
1) install a dedicated 15A power point with only the still on it - very expensive and may take a while to organise (and don't have a 'friendly' electrician on hand who I'd be confident would approve of my use)
2) Buy new elements of ~2500 and 1500W. Also expensive and will need more holes in the stock pot, but would give me more control.
3) Install it as mentioned: not sure if this is risky or not, given the wires should be rated for more than 16A (as per the circuit breaker). This might mean filing down a 15A plug and being careful not to use a circuit with other appliances on at the time to prevent nuisance breaker trips.

I'm leaning towards 1, but not sure how big the risk is of going with 3. I know kettles / coffee machines can get to above 3000W and plugged in to ordinary circuits, though admittedly probably not running for an hour at a time like my still.

Have any other Australians come across this issue and how have you resolved it?

[Yummyrum]

2400w on a boiler that size and a 2" reflux still is way plenty .

2000w is typically considered the maximum you can use before your column will flood. ....but you can run it a bit harder in some cases ....up to 2400w if you have a controller .

3600w will allow quicker boil up but in a small boiler its not really needed .....for a 50 - 80 liter boiler or a 3" column yeah go for it .

A standard 10 Amp wall socket gets bloody hot when running a 2400w load continually on it . No way I would pull 3600 watts from one . Sure the Active and neutral look the same between a 10 and 15 amp but the contact area and tension is different to allow the higher current . The earth on a 15A is bigger so you can't interchange them .

There are many 10Amp sockets on a typical circuit that is protected by a 16A circuit beaker . 16A is chosen as a maximum for the whole lot ...you would be mad to push it that close .

If you must go 15 A then get a dedicated circuit wired in . Probably cost you around $150-200.....cheaper than a failed insurance claim .
Regarding getting a 15A curcuit . You could be using a welder .....doubt the sparky would care , a job is a job.

[kimbodious]

If your column is a 2" you won't need more than a 2200W element unless you are after a quick heat up, but once you get up to a boil you'll drop back to no more than 2000W if yours is a 2" column.

I run a 50L keg boiler with a 2200W element which I only have running flat out on a stripping run and a 10A circuit is fine for that.

If you are running a 3" column or bigger, you'll benefit from higher power input and therefore require a 15A circuit, for your 'welder"

cheers!

[theBrokenDoor]

Haha, thanks guys I did consider getting a welder in the future (and mentioning that purpose)

Out of curiosity - what sorts of times are we talking about to heat up with a ~2000-2400 W heater? I'm an engineer by background so couldn't resist doing some quick & dirty calculations and figured for 20L of water and a 2500W element it would take ~33minutes to reach temperature, and at least 15mins to distill (though this is more an estimate than a calculation, given reflux ratio would vary, and depend on how hard I ran it). A 2000W heater would be ~42minutes to get to temperature.


I am using a 2" column, so will accept your advice that I can't practically run it any harder than 2400W. Is there a good source of elements for an Australian? I've seen quite a few <$20 online from overseas, but postage always cranks that up to a ridiculous level ($80+). I've read some of the brew shops have had safety issues with their 2400W heaters (burning at the back end of the elements), but if that is out of date info happy to be corrected and try that. Or else are there recommendations for particular brew shop heaters that work?

Also, my current element is flanged. Most of the lower wattages tend to be screwed in - is there an easy Australian friendly (Bunnings or some such) way to connect it?

[rad14701]

Refer to my Heating Time To Temp calculator on the parent site, located HERE...

[steelmb]

Hello all,

I am an Australian with an offset reflux still and have been using it for 8yrs, but now making some upgrades to the boiler and heating which was just terrible to work with. The boiler was only about 9L stock pot, and the heat source an induction hot plate. The hot plate worked ok, but eventually my original one broke and my replacements were such poor quality they haven't even lasted a single run before electrocuting or just not working.

I've bought a bigger (19L) stock pot, and looking to install an element inside. Bought a copper 3,600W hot water element, and starting to wire it. My concern at the moment is the house wiring: which is quite modern (15yrs old, Australian) and has 16A 240V circuit breakers installed and an RCD. The element would be ~15 Amps, so should be able to run on the circuit, but I am concerned the sockets may be rated to only 10A. Not sure if that is a big deal or not - would the only consequence be likelihood of tripping the circuit if something else is plugged in to the same circuit, or could it cause fire / heat in the walls?

I was considering cutting into a 15A extension cord for a caravan or computer power supply and wiring to the element, which would mean the only possible underrated equipment is the wall socket. But I've heard from some places that the main difference between a 15A and 10A socket is the size of the grounding pin (ie a socket can take higher amperage, just is made incompatible in case the rest of the electric system cannot take it). Given all my power points have 2 sockets, the wiring leading to it should be able to take more than 15A regardless.

As far as I can see the options are
1) install a dedicated 15A power point with only the still on it - very expensive and may take a while to organise (and don't have a 'friendly' electrician on hand who I'd be confident would approve of my use)
2) Buy new elements of ~2500 and 1500W. Also expensive and will need more holes in the stock pot, but would give me more control.
3) Install it as mentioned: not sure if this is risky or not, given the wires should be rated for more than 16A (as per the circuit breaker). This might mean filing down a 15A plug and being careful not to use a circuit with other appliances on at the time to prevent nuisance breaker trips.
4)Remove the 10 amp receptacle and replace with a 15 amp receptacle.

I'm leaning towards 1, but not sure how big the risk is of going with 3. I know kettles / coffee machines can get to above 3000W and plugged in to ordinary circuits, though admittedly probably not running for an hour at a time like my still.

Have any other Australians come across this issue and how have you resolved it?

I'm not sure about the electrical code in Australia, but doing that would meet code here since the breaker and wiring are are still rated more that the 15 amps. Here a 15 amp and 20 amp receptacle fit in the same electrical box and are interchangeable so there is no problem changing out a 15 for a 20 if there is 12 gauge wire with a 20 amp breaker. I don't know if your 15 amp will go in the same box as the 10 amp, but I am thinking it will. If you are even just a little bit handy with tools you would be able to do it yourself for very little money. If not you may have a friend who is handy with tools who is interested in your hobby. You could use the larger element and just build a controller to adjust the power. You would need to figure out what other receptacles are on that circuit and make sure there are no large loads (small ones should be fine)on them when you are stilling.

[HiString]

I am using a 2" column, so will accept your advice that I can't practically run it any harder than 2400W. Is there a good source of elements for an Australian? I've seen quite a few <$20 online from overseas, but postage always cranks that up to a ridiculous level ($80+). I've read some of the brew shops have had safety issues with their 2400W heaters (burning at the back end of the elements), but if that is out of date info happy to be corrected and try that. Or else are there recommendations for particular brew shop heaters that work?

Also, my current element is flanged. Most of the lower wattages tend to be screwed in - is there an easy Australian friendly (Bunnings or some such) way to connect it?

Five Star Distilling in West Aust., can help with elements, also, if you haven't found it, there is the Aussie Distillers forum run by FSD.

[theBrokenDoor]

Five Star Distilling in West Aust., can help with elements, also, if you haven't found it, there is the Aussie Distillers forum run by FSD.

I did find them, but unfortunately they are out of stock for 2 weeks more. While searching I found a few more threads on Aussiehomebrewer.com and aussiedistiller.com.au about the keg king elements that are common in brick & mortar stores. Enough stories of sparking, smoke, fire, and short life (of element and presumably person running it) convinced me maybe I should wait.

Unless there are other brands used by Aussies and more readily available.

I'm not sure about the electrical code in Australia, but doing that would meet code here since the breaker and wiring are are still rated more that the 15 amps. Here a 15 amp and 20 amp receptacle fit in the same electrical box and are interchangeable so there is no problem changing out a 15 for a 20 if there is 12 gauge wire with a 20 amp breaker. I don't know if your 15 amp will go in the same box as the 10 amp, but I am thinking it will. If you are even just a little bit handy with tools you would be able to do it yourself for very little money. If not you may have a friend who is handy with tools who is interested in your hobby. You could use the larger element and just build a controller to adjust the power. You would need to figure out what other receptacles are on that circuit and make sure there are no large loads (small ones should be fine)on them when you are stilling.

Electrical code says once you take a screwdriver to your receptacle (or fixed wiring) you'd better be an electrician

Not exactly in electrical code (which can't really be enforced against non-electricians), but I wouldn't want to explain it to an insurer if something did happen to the electrical system (even if unrelated).

Refer to my Heating Time To Temp calculator on the parent site, located HERE...

Thanks for that, looks like it agrees with my method.

[steelmb]

Electrical code says once you take a screwdriver to your receptacle (or fixed wiring) you'd better be an electrician

Not exactly in electrical code (which can't really be enforced against non-electricians), but I wouldn't want to explain it to an insurer if something did happen to the electrical system (even if unrelated).

How would you explain the still to the insurer?

[Yummyrum]

theBrokenDoor.

I use one of those 2400W FSD elements on my 2" VM column . After it runs through 2x10m extensions to the shed , I'm getting enough voltage that calculates out to 2200W .....its fine .Even though I have a controller , just leave it bypassed and run at 2200W . I usually strip a couple of washes so I'm running at around 35-40% ABV in the boiler with around a 15 liter charge .

You will however need to make up an element terminal cover /shield or buy the FSD option so you are not going to see much change out of $100 .Then you have the mounting issue .You either need to get a 2" ferrule or 1"BSP thread attached to your boiler .

I made mine but its a lot of Buggering around ...it sticks out way to far . I should have cut down the SS coupling but I hate cutting SS