would something like this work - closed loop cooling ?

[joeymac]

So here's a YouTube vid showing a guy with a homemade air conditioner... basically just a box fan blowing through copper tubing with ice water pumping through the tube.
https://youtu.be/3V93Gh3Q2Ro" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Now, forget the ice water and think of this in reverse...

A 5 gallon bucket full of room temperature water with an aquarium pump recirculating water from the bucket through the condenser head and then through the box-fan-heat-exchanger thing and then back into the bucket. I've often thought of trying to find a right sized automotive radiator for this purpose but never thought of just using 1/4-3/8" copper tubing. Would this shed enough heat to make a good recirculating coolant loop? You would have to be shedding probably 2-4kw of heat for it to be useful. But a fan and pump are going to draw under 1.5 amps of electric... so it's pretty trivial in terms of cost to do.

Anybody doing this? Anybody doing the same thing with a radiator or finned tubing?

[rad14701]

Search around the forums because there are several examples of using radiators, swamp coolers, etc... Water and air have been covered...

[ShineRunner]

Yup. Search around. There are a few threads where people have done this. I haven't posted anything on it, but I use an old radiator from my truck that was leaking. Box fan and cheap pump. Easy.

SR

[jb-texshine]

Air cooled condenser

[bluefish_dist]

I think you will find that it's hard to get enough cooling from an air conditioner for anything bigger than 2". Just look at the input power, if you are 1500w of heating, you need more than 1500w of cooling since ac is not 100% efficient. The limit for most 110 appliances is 1200-1400w. So you would need an ac unit that runs on 240.
Step up to a 4" system and input 5000w, that's a huge air conditioner. I know my house was not wired for two 240v loads. Water is much cheaper and easier to use. A couple of garbage cans with a pump should handle most 2" systems. Ibc tote for 4".

[still_stirrin]

+1 bluefish.

1/4" refrigeration tubing would have too much friction loss for a closed loop condenser cooler. You'd have to use 3/8" ID as a minimum. Forty feet of 3/8" tubing will cost close to $50USD. And the recirculation pump to move the water and still have enough pressure head to reach your reflux condenser will cost $50-60USD. You can run a lot of tap water for $100+.

Recycling the used cooling water to your yard (or fish pond) would make it "environmentally friendly" too.

Closed loop systems are environmentally fantastic, but until the "economy of scale" complements the infrastructure cost/investment, it likely can't be financially justified for us "hobby" distillers.
ss

[shadylane]

Air cooled condenser

Here's what I found with the HD search at the top of the page
This should keep joeymac busy reading for a while

https://www.google.com/search?rls=en-us ... +condenser" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Here's what happened when I did the same search and clicked on Image
https://www.google.com/search?q=site:ht ... EQ_AUIBigB" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[joeymac]

I did a HD search and most of the results are about air-cooling a POTSTILL. I'm trying to cool the coil from the head of a reflux column so I can recirculate water in a 5 gallon bucket. I'll keep searching, I guess.

Yes, I know water is "cheap". But I live in the city (so doing this outdoors is not going to happen) and my wife has relegated this hobby activities to the garage where there is no sink, drain, or water hookup and the nearest garden hose is 100ft away. Recirculating water just seems like it would be convenient to be totally honest... who doesn't want another gadget they get to add to their homebrew equipment.

I think you will find that it's hard to get enough cooling from an air conditioner for anything bigger than 2". Just look at the input power, if you are 1500w of heating, you need more than 1500w of cooling since ac is not 100% efficient. The limit for most 110 appliances is 1200-1400w. So you would need an ac unit that runs on 240.
Step up to a 4" system and input 5000w, that's a huge air conditioner. I know my house was not wired for two 240v loads. Water is much cheaper and easier to use. A couple of garbage cans with a pump should handle most 2" systems. Ibc tote for 4".

I'm not talking about using an A/C to cool anything. I'm talking about pumping my coolant through copper tubing (or a radiator) in order to drop the temperature and reuse.

[jb-texshine]

Oh, I've got you! Keep your eyes out for a window unit ac on a curb that you can yank a coil out of. Get a 55 gallon hdpe drum and pond pump and box fan. fill drum with water and rout hoses from pump in bottom of barrel. To condensers to bottom of ac coil out the top of coil to top of 55 gallon coolant reservoir. Place fan to blow thru coil. Add a half cup bleach to the water weekly to keep it sanitary. Top up with fresh water to replace any that evaporates monthly.
Jbt

[joeymac]

I actually have a brewhaus pump already from other brewing activities (529 GPH and 8'2" Head Pressure). I'm sure a cheap auto radiator would work. Most small car radiators cool in the 2000-4000 BTU/min range... that's like 35kW-70kW power dissipation. So even though I'm not pumping 200 degree water at 40gal/min with 35mph airflow like a car, I'm sure I can get a small pump and box fan (13mph) to reject a relatively small 3-5kw.

I'm just not ready to plunk down $60 on a new one and the thought of a used dirty exchanger (oil, antifreeze, freon, or ATF) associated with distilling is offputting to me. So when I saw that idea of just blowing a boxfan over some soft copper tubing I found that interesting.

[jb-texshine]

Heater core might even work. Long as its only cooling water it shouldn't matter what was previously ran through it. As far a refrigerant, it boils at room temp so should Vale off cleanly. The only residue should be a small amount of oil that's there to lube the compressor.
I've actually got a small ac unit on the portch now that's gonna die for this exact purpose.
Jbt

[ShineRunner]

Like I said, my radiator came from a Toyota Tacoma and it's slightly bigger than the box fan I use. It sprung a small leak that is only apparent when pressurized. With the open system, it doesn't leak. Free! It works, but realistically doesn't work as well as pumping cold water through the Liebig. If I crank my still way up ( 5500W element) it has a hard time keeping up. It will do it, but my distillate is usually somewhere around 130F. My discharge water is close to 180F and input to Liebig is around 90F.

Part of that may be my Liebig, which is 32" 3/4 over 1/2. I think the vapor speed is so high that it doesn't get as much contact. But it can, and will, dissipate a lot of heat.

The question is whether it's worth it. Up to you- water is cheap. But I hate dumping all that water every time I run and now use less than a gallon. I drain it every time unless I know I'll be using a lot to keep funk from growing in the open system.

Sure, there was coolant in there before, but I'm not drinking anything from the radiator. I rinsed it a couple times and it's fine. Doesn't bother me.

SR

[bluefish_dist]

Recirculated water works fine as long as you have enough water. I run my large still at 8000w with two ibc totes. The cooling water gets maybe 105 deg after 4-5 hrs. At 6000 w I can run for 8-9 hrs no problem. It just takes a lot of water to keep the temp in check. I ran a single ibc and an ice machine to start. It did not have enough water to absorb the heat.

I would think that a small radiator and a 30-50 gallon trash can would handle a typical keg with a 2" column. You would still get a temp rise, but the radiator would slow it down. Put an outlet at the top that drains to a bucket. That way you can add ice or cold water quickly and easily if needed at the end of a run.

[jb-texshine]

I would think that a small radiator and a 30-50 gallon trash can would handle a typical keg with a 2" column. You would still get a temp rise, but the radiator would slow it down. Put an outlet at the top that drains to a bucket. That way you can add ice or cold water quickly and easily if needed at the end of a run.

This is where I'm headed with mine. Plus a box fan. Should be plenty for 2 strip runs or a long spirit run with the thumper. At least I hope.

[rad14701]

Here is some logic to help decide where cooling and recirculating is worthwhile... If you think "Green" then it might be worth it to you based on that aspect alone... However, if you have to spend more than let's say $30, or whatever, to get recirculation working then it may not be worth it because $30, or whatever, covers a shitload of municipal water usage, even if you get dinged for sewer fees along with the water usage... So, pick your battles wisely...

[Greenthorn]

I see your point. Less clutter and mess, smaller working area, all that stuff. I think that fan conditioner would work. Mind you I am not an engineer. And on that note, I once was tickled by SL's ridiculously easy built air fan condenser. Hey, if that thing knocks down 180 to 70 degrees, then I don't see why this wouldn't work for cooling your recirculating water. I for one ain't worried about costs and experimenting, other hobbies are quite more expensive then this one. I think you should go for it!

[Greenthorn]

Air cooled condenser

Here's what I found with the HD search at the top of the page
This should keep joeymac busy reading for a while

https://www.google.com/search?rls=en-us ... +condenser" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Here's what happened when I did the same search and clicked on Image
https://www.google.com/search?q=site:ht ... EQ_AUIBigB" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I feel slighted, my air cooled condenser didn't come up in that search...

[skow69]

]

Here's what I found with the HD search at the top of the page
This should keep joeymac busy reading for a while

https://www.google.com/search?rls=en-us ... +condenser" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Here's what happened when I did the same search and clicked on Image
https://www.google.com/search?q=site:ht ... EQ_AUIBigB" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow:

WOW! Look at this monster from the image link above.

Man, that takes dedication! How much time do you suppose is in that?

[Euphoria]

Here's a link to a thread which went around on this topic from a few months ago.

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 87&t=63997

[Oldvine Zin]

And here is my cooling build
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 87&t=60026
Even though I live in one of the wettest cities in the US the cost of water is one of the highest, it was worth to me to build this.

OVZ

[skow69]

That is too cool, both of you. Do you run straight water in them or a glycol mix?

[joeymac]

Oldvine Zin,

Thanks for the link. The read was quite helpful. I've priced it out and a stripping run should cost me about $1.50 in water and a spirit run with reflux should cost me about $3.50 in water. If I do two strips and one reflux run for every batch that's about $6.50 in water for each go around. If I can keep a cooling system under $50, then a box fan & radiator cooling setup could break even after about 8 runs. But more importantly, it make my setup more self-contained. Although this is my pump... a bit more puny than yours, LOL: http://www.brewhaus.com/Submersible-Water-Pump.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

If I might ask, when that radiator is cooling your reflux coil what is your power input on the boiler, what is the external ambient temperature, and what is your coolant flow rate on the pump? How long are your runs?

I once had a closed-loop water-cooled computer that I ran without a reservoir - just the water in the little 120mm radiator (plate and fin construction) and lines. It did reasonably well, but not great without a reservoir. So I added a fan in front of AND behind the radiator in a push-pull configuration. It didn't quite double the cooling, but it made a helluva noticeable difference. Perhaps running two box fans push-pull would improve your cooling, too.

[Oldvine Zin]

If I might ask, when that radiator is cooling your reflux coil what is your power input on the boiler, what is the external ambient temperature, and what is your coolant flow rate on the pump? How long are your runs?

Hey Joey,

Usually I run Anna full reflux for about an hour at anywhere between 3/4 and full power (5500 W), then collect at around 3/4 power for about another hour - of course every batch is a little different but I have her dialed in pretty good. I really don't know the flow rate of the coolant because I go by output speed not dials.

I run in the cellar so the ambient temp stays in the high 50's to low 60's year round, the coolant temp has never gotten hotter than a lukewarm bath. No need for a second fan.

OVZ