Removing 'Homebrew' taste

[tugboatbilly]

So the forum topic didn't specify adding or removing flavor so i hope this post is good here =0).

I'm running into an issue with a 'homebrew' flavor that is present every now and then. more noticeable in a neutral spirit but i just did a rum and i'm catching that flavor there a bit as well. also had it with a whisky. most the runs are beautiful.....nice proofs, clean flavor.....right on point. then the exact same recipe will have that off flavor and i can't figure it out.

i always use my fresh well water from the green mountains of vermont, dady yeast, the best ingredients i can find. the still and column are always cleaned and sanitized....and so are my half gallon growlers i age and proof in. where am i picking up this 'homebrew' flavor/smell from??

thanks for any ideas or advice.

[der wo]

Tails cut not strict enough?

Not enough copper?

[yakattack]

You definitely need to explain this home brew taste. There are a number of cogners and alcohols present. When you do ssmell them?
Ingredients, process? Any changes?

[tugboatbilly]

hi guys.

well i guess the closest thing i can compare it to is a saki flavor. something like that. got plenty of copper and i only collect to 90 pf before collecting tails.

the first and most powerful flavor came from a potato mash vokda i made a few years ago. it ran off at 193 pf and was crystal clear and not smell or flavor until a few days later it had a noticeable funk to it. i polished and filtered 3-4 times but really didn't help much. potatoes, bread yeast

my whiskys have been great until the last batch, same thing.....ran off smelling and tasting great. started running off at around 170 pf and i ran that down until i was collecting at 90 pf then the rest went in the tails jug. couple days later same thing.....off smell and funky taste. corn, 6 row barley, cane sugar, DADY yeast.

rum was the same as the recent whisky....did both those runs the same week. the rum you can just barely detect it but it's there. molasses, brown sugar, DADY yeast.

aging on french oak spirals medium or dark toast......but that obviously isn't the issue as it's present before we get to the wood.

i try to do everything the same. still temp, mashing fermenting.....

[Still Life]

Assuming your still is clean (crystal clear product),
is it also safe without rubber gaskets, new fluxxy solder joints, or other poisons in the vapor path?
That'll add unfriendly flavors and it's unhealthy.

[der wo]

90 pf is low. Was it a double run? Second run with reflux column? Is the packing copper? Perhaps you have to clean it?

[dieselduo]

at 90 pf you have a lot of tails in there

[FullySilenced]

Could be the french oak....

FS

[cob]

the still and column are always cleaned and sanitized.

that looks like a clue

[AB Normal]

I'd also consider the ferment. Maybe the yeast wasn't given enough time to clear out any off-flavors leading to something akin to unexpected early & funky tails. Is the mash/wash *always* clear when you run it?

[tugboatbilly]

the still and column are always cleaned and sanitized.

that looks like a clue

How so cob? What are you thinking?

[tugboatbilly]

90 pf is low. Was it a double run? Second run with reflux column? Is the packing copper? Perhaps you have to clean it?

No, the runs were a few days apart. No packing either...except for the vodka run a few years ago. Still and column always get cleaned between runs.

Maybe it could be the tails.

[still_stirrin]

Billy,

Tell us how you clean your still & column. RU sure there's no residual cleaner agents left behind?
ss

[Hillbilly Popstar]

Make cuts by smell and taste, not pf.

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[Hillbilly Popstar]

Why clean it?
What exactly do you believe is getting on there that's unwanted?
Nothing wrong with a little patina.

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[crazy]

May I suggest you check this topic out & practice it ? http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 63&t=13261

[Danespirit]

What kind of wash do you use for neutral..?
If it's a birdwatchers, try cutting back on the tomato paste.
Yeast trub from the previous ferment will also give plenty of nutrition to the ferment

[Jimbo]

If your stillin and cuts process are the same everytime you need to go further back in the process. Id put my bet on fermentation process. Even a couple degrees difference and the yeast will produce different esters and other byproducts (congeners). You could try a clean yeast like US-05 for a while and make sure your ferment temp is the same every time, lower the better if youre after a clean spirit. US-05 at 68F would be good.

[tugboatbilly]

Make cuts by smell and taste, not pf.

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I only check pf to see where in the run I am. I don't use anything that doesn't smell or taste good and only use the hearts of the run. It's only happened three times so....i guess that is why i'm trying to figure it out.

[tugboatbilly]

Billy,

Tell us how you clean your still & column. RU sure there's no residual cleaner agents left behind?
ss

I use one step and hot water and a carboy brush, then sanistar. Pretty sure no residue is left behind.

[Hillbilly Popstar]

Well if your run is starting in the 170s, by 90pf you're DEEP in the tails.

I often find my tails to taste good right off the still, but when I put too much in the cut, after a fee days in the jar, it develops a overpowering aftertaste that is very earthy/metallic and gives me heartburn.

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[Hillbilly Popstar]

I don't even own a parrot and my thermometer is used for 2 things, to know when to turn my cooling water on and when to turn the fire off.

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[tugboatbilly]

What kind of wash do you use for neutral..?
If it's a birdwatchers, try cutting back on the tomato paste.
Yeast trub from the previous ferment will also give plenty of nutrition to the ferment

I've did a potato mash for the fist vodka I tried.....the others have just been sugar.

[tugboatbilly]

Why clean it?
What exactly do you believe is getting on there that's unwanted?
Nothing wrong with a little patina.

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Could be my ignorance leads me to believe the copper column needs to be cleaned after a run....especially when doing a rum, then a whisky....then maybe later that week a neutral. If that is not the case it will definitely save me some time.

[tugboatbilly]

Well if your run is starting in the 170s, by 90pf you're DEEP in the tails.

I often find my tails to taste good right off the still, but when I put too much in the cut, after a fee days in the jar, it develops a overpowering aftertaste that is very earthy/metallic and gives me heartburn.

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Man......sounds like my deal. I'll hold back then, really keep an eye on things once i'm in the 120's.

[der wo]

Nothing wrong with a little patina. But a cleaning without acids, without destroying the patina is very beneficial before distilling a neutral.
And in addition, the copper scrubbies in the lower part of my column get regularly an acid bath. They are not oxidized, what would be beneficial eventually, they have a different residue, black copper sulfide probably.

[tugboatbilly]

Nothing wrong with a little patina. But a cleaning without acids, without destroying the patina is very beneficial before distilling a neutral.
And in addition, the copper scrubbies in the lower part of my column get regularly an acid bath. They are not oxidized, what would be beneficial eventually, they have a different residue, black copper sulfide probably.

What would suggest for cleaning a column? One step and sanistar both strip the patina.

[der wo]

Nothing wrong with a little patina. But a cleaning without acids, without destroying the patina is very beneficial before distilling a neutral.
And in addition, the copper scrubbies in the lower part of my column get regularly an acid bath. They are not oxidized, what would be beneficial eventually, they have a different residue, black copper sulfide probably.

What would suggest for cleaning a column? One step and sanistar both strip the patina.

The scrubbies, which get an acid bath, have no patina after.
Acids destroy the patina, so if you want to keep it, you need something with high pH. Washing soda. As hot as possible. And rinsing with much hot water after.

But I also think, that the real problem is, that you cut too late. For example normal Bourbon is distilled to 130 pr. I know, the continuous process is a different story. But for example the potstill distilled Bourbons from Woodford are distilled to 158 pr (total, not the cut point, and after three distillations). And the average cut point of Scotch Malt distilleries is 130 pr (the cut point! Total the hearts have 140 pr).

[cob]

it seems that most clean their stills with a water rinse.

this is the only instance of chemical cleaning after every run that I can recall.

[rad14701]

What would suggest for cleaning a column? One step and sanistar both strip the patina.

Hot water... I've never used anything but hot water to clean my stills unless the components are new or modified by soldering... The entire rig has been steam cleaned during the run, mostly with high proof alcohol vapor... Pretty much all I'm rinsing out is the tails... I do run a long bottle brush down through my column sections every few runs with hot water running through during brushing... I don't do anything to effect the patina... I hate the taste of bare copper...