uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

[NZChris]

My last attempt at a sour mash was thirty years ago and was a vomit smelling disaster that went into my compost heap.

I have my first generation of UJSSM fermenting now. Starting with small washes that are for producing increasingly large and mature backsets for the next generations. I shouldn't have to do my first spirit run until at least generation five.

As an experiment, I will use seashells if I have to regulate pH. These will be weighed before and after and any losses recorded.

[Thebigthumpa]

Hi, I am in the process of building a pot still head to attach to
My existing boiler to Make ujssm.
Just want to clarify a few things before I start.

The first still run, you discard foreshots, collect to 20%, and used as feints for distilling of second ferment?
Secondly, next time you take off product between 70-60% to keep for drinking.
Thirdly, the next runs, or as many as you do are kept separate and for drinking, (60-70%) or are they all mixed in with each other for drinking?
Thanks alot

[NZChris]

Wrong.

You are confusing stripping runs with spirit runs. Read the original method again. and again.

The first time a wash goes through the still is a stripping run and produces 'low wines'. You save your 'low wines' until you have enough to fill your still for a 'spirit run', which is when you produce your sippin whiskey ready for drinking, or ageing. This may be three, four, or five generations.

Don't be confused by UJ recommending you put the 'low wines' into the still with the second generation. It is not an essential part of the method, it is just a way of dealing with product of the first generation that isn't sour mash yet. You could throw it out, but I bet nobody ever does.

[aknewb1s]

There are two basic types of pot distillation:

The first involves a traditional pot still, which has no cooling in the neck or column.

The second type of pot distillation is performed in a reflux still [snip] This type of still is far more efficient and can produce a high proof, high quality spirit in a single run.

If I understand this method correctly, the instructions basically describe the use of the traditional pot still. How does the method change if you're using a reflux/boka still in pot mode? Are the multiple runs still necessary? The last part of the section above seems to imply no.

[rad14701]

There are two basic types of pot distillation:

The first involves a traditional pot still, which has no cooling in the neck or column.

The second type of pot distillation is performed in a reflux still [snip] This type of still is far more efficient and can produce a high proof, high quality spirit in a single run.

If I understand this method correctly, the instructions basically describe the use of the traditional pot still. How does the method change if you're using a reflux/boka still in pot mode? Are the multiple runs still necessary? The last part of the section above seems to imply no.

You would want your reflux column detuned so it performs like a pot still so in that case you would run it as if it was a pot still... You surely don't want to lose the very flavor profile you are working so hard to attain, and you don't want the %ABV of the spirits to be so high that you need to dilute aggressively...

[Thebigthumpa]

Thank nz Chris. I understand now!
So I could run this in my Nixon stone, with no reflux and no column packing and it would still come out good?
On ur spirit run, how quick should u take off the product?

[aknewb1s]

The second type of pot distillation is performed in a reflux still [snip] This type of still is far more efficient and can produce a high proof, high quality spirit in a single run.

You would want your reflux column detuned so it performs like a pot still so in that case you would run it as if it was a pot still... You surely don't want to lose the very flavor profile you are working so hard to attain, and you don't want the %ABV of the spirits to be so high that you need to dilute aggressively...

That's what I thought, but UJs sentence is technically incorrect then right? A detuned reflux still operating like a pot still does NOT produce a high proof, high quality spirit in a single run.

[Da Yooper]

Running my second gen as I speak. Temp is 190 I'm on jar 5 and ABV is now at 60. The smell is great can't wait to do some sipping. Running at about 3-4drips per second.

[Black Eye]

That's what I thought, but UJs sentence is technically incorrect then right? A detuned reflux still operating like a pot still does NOT produce a high proof, high quality spirit in a single run.

That's kind of open to ones own opinion. I used to run it in my reflux, detuned with no packing and it did come out higher proof then what I get out of my pot now,and pretty damn good for a first run. I never really make enough to fill my boiler for a large spirit run so I dump all my feints into my next "stripping" run and run it in my pot and I get pretty good quality and a little higher ABV than running the wash alone. Honeslty I get good results with UJ no matter how I've run it... cutting it properly makes the biggest difference for me I try to be picky about what I keep for drinking and run the rest again.

I'm with Rad. For me, it starts coming off the Pot in the 130's after I stop chucking fores and early heads. I collect everything up in jars... and once I get into the nasty part of the tails I just collect in one vessle, to add to my next run. After airing, I mix everything I want to keep in one jug then seperate into 800ml mason jars so I can play around with different things. Sometimes I mix two different jugs to start off with if I'm playing with mixing for flavor comparison. I usually pick 1 jar ( if I'm mix 2 main jugs its the best tasting one) for some white and the rest I oak or play with fruits. I only proof anything down further with water, when I'm ready to bottle it after oaking. White I leave what ever proof it was after mixing, which usually works out to 100-110 and just add ice to the glass to knock down the proof to good sipping volume. Keeping the proof fairly low off the pot seems to work really good for flavoring.

[rogr18]

Hi,

I would like to try this out but in the UK I'm struggling to find cracked corn, reading on here it looks like Maize is the equivalent, but all I seem to be able to find at local animal feed warehouses is cooked flaked maize. Is this ok to use? if not what should I be looking for?

My second question is regarding the first fermentation... Am I correct in saying that I don't let the fermentation complete, in the past when made a mash i.e. Rad's all bran recipe I've just let it complete fermenting and when the SG is at a certain value. When it says "It should take 3 or 4 days for the ebullition to end" this isn't when fermentation is complete is it? Is this similar to when primary fermentation completes when making beer?

I apologies if the answers to these questions are easily found in the forum, but I cant find them anywhere

Thanks

[Bushman]

Hi,

I would like to try this out but in the UK I'm struggling to find cracked corn, reading on here it looks like Maize is the equivalent, but all I seem to be able to find at local animal feed warehouses is cooked flaked maize. Is this ok to use? if not what should I be looking for?

My second question is regarding the first fermentation... Am I correct in saying that I don't let the fermentation complete, in the past when made a mash i.e. Rad's all bran recipe I've just let it complete fermenting and when the SG is at a certain value. When it says "It should take 3 or 4 days for the ebullition to end" this isn't when fermentation is complete is it? Is this similar to when primary fermentation completes when making beer?

I apologies if the answers to these questions are easily found in the forum, but I cant find them anywhere

Thanks

Read this thread for the first question as I have not used Maize.
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =3&t=36879

For the second I always try to let my fermentations complete.

[rogr18]

Hi,

I would like to try this out but in the UK I'm struggling to find cracked corn, reading on here it looks like Maize is the equivalent, but all I seem to be able to find at local animal feed warehouses is cooked flaked maize. Is this ok to use? if not what should I be looking for?

My second question is regarding the first fermentation... Am I correct in saying that I don't let the fermentation complete, in the past when made a mash i.e. Rad's all bran recipe I've just let it complete fermenting and when the SG is at a certain value. When it says "It should take 3 or 4 days for the ebullition to end" this isn't when fermentation is complete is it? Is this similar to when primary fermentation completes when making beer?

I apologies if the answers to these questions are easily found in the forum, but I cant find them anywhere

Thanks

Read this thread for the first question as I have not used Maize.
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =3&t=36879

For the second I always try to let my fermentations complete.

That's great, thanks for the link and info

[NC Dayzz]

I've ran this through several generations now and I like it a lot! I've also read lots of comments about each generation improving (and it is) but no explanation why it is improving? Anybody know? Thanks

[StogieFarts]

I've also read lots of comments about each generation improving (and it is) but no explanation why it is improving? Anybody know? Thanks

If I had to take a wild guess, I'd say it's improving due to the backset that you are continuing to throw into each new fermentation. That backset contains a lot of the flavor that contributes to the finished product, and the more generations a backset has, the better the product ends up being.

So while your first batch of UJSSM may be good, the constant recycling of the backset over many generations is going to change the way it tastes, and make it so much better in the long run.

(I am currently fermenting my 8th batch of this recipe, and it's becoming second nature to me at this point. I've had people sample my finished whiskey which I diluted down to 55% and stored on some Jack Daniels wood chips......they said it's fantastic!)

[Lukemanley89]

I have 50 pounds of cracked corn 50 pounds sugar 55 gallon drum and pleanty of yeast can someone give me a good recipe? Thank for any input

[Dnderhead]

you have posted this 3-4 times and this time your on the right thread.
start at beginning read it over.
this will git you started:
5 gallons soft, filtered water.
7 lbs cracked corn. 6-8 pieces/kernel is the proper crack. If using bird feed, make sure it is perishable, or in other words is free of preservatives.
7 lbs of granulated sugar.
1 tbsp yeast (distillers yeast if available.)

[pt49]

that won't work becuz he's got 50 pound o grain

[Black Eye]

he can dig the calculator out and multiply by 10

[StogieFarts]

he can dig the calculator out and multiply by 10

You mean that futuristic number-counting machine?

[Prairiepiss]

I have 50 pounds of cracked corn 50 pounds sugar 55 gallon drum and pleanty of yeast can someone give me a good recipe? Thank for any input

First post in this thread is the recipe.

Figure out how much the 50 lbs will make. Going off that recipe.

[Prairiepiss]

that won't work becuz he's got 50 pound o grain

Why not?

[thatguy1]

I have 50 pounds of cracked corn 50 pounds sugar 55 gallon drum and pleanty of yeast can someone give me a good recipe? Thank for any input

What you need to do is find out how much you can make with your limiting factor, which is your sugar and cracked corn. You have 50lbs of each. The recipe calls for 7 lbs of sugar and 7 lbs of corn for 5 gallons of water. So divide 50 (the amount you have) by 7 (what the recipe calls for) and you'll get 7.14 batches that you can make. If you want to make multiple generations or cycles, you'll need more corn and sugar than 50 lbs if you start with 50 total. However if you just want one generation or cycle then 7.14 batches of the posted recipe means you'll need 7.14 x 5 gallons of water = 35.7 gallons. The recipe calls for about 2 tablespoons of yeast per 5 gallons. 7.14 batches x 2 tablespoons = 14.28 tablespoons of yeast. Or if you want, since 2 tablespoons equals one ounce (oz), you can also weigh it as 7.14 oz of yeast. So your recipe is the following:

50 lbs of sugar
50 lbs of cracked corn
35.7 gallons of water
7.14 oz yeast (14.28 tablespoons)

You'll notice that also works out to 1.4 lbs of sugar and 1.4 lbs of cracked corn PER gallon of water.

You said you have a 55 gallon drum. Using 35 gallons of water will be perfect since the 50 lbs of sugar and 50 lbs of cracked corn will probably take up another 10 gallons and almost fill your drum to the top. Remember the sugar and cracked corn does take space in the drum as well

Hope this helps

[Odin]

Sorry, but a guy that cannot do that math himself should maybe not be permitted to the craft.

Just imagine the discussions that are sure to follow. "If ABV on 1 liter of uncut whiskey is 60%, how much will it be on 10 liters?"

Just saying.

Odin.

[thatguy1]

Sorry, but a guy that cannot do that math himself should maybe not be permitted to the craft.

[Prairiepiss]

Sorry, but a guy that cannot do that math himself should maybe not be permitted to the craft.

Just imagine the discussions that are sure to follow. "If ABV on 1 liter of uncut whiskey is 60%, how much will it be on 10 liters?"

Just saying.

Odin.

He will just expect it on a silver spoon.

[Sabatour]

Want to get a quick logic check on what I am doing.

Thanks again for the previous help on this - things are running smooth so far.


So I am fermenting my third run.

First run was normal stripping run - everything saved 'cept the foreshots (175ml)
Second run I dumped all the low wines saved from the first into the boiler with the second batch of beer - everything saved again 'cept the foreshots and set aside
Third run (and this is where I need my logic check) -- Just run the beer on its own dont toss all the previous low wines in - save everything minus foreshots
Forth run - same as the third - just running the beer and saving everything to the side minus foreshots
Fifth run - all the previous low wines saved (everything) and the fifth gen of beer -- do real cuts with 1/2 pint mason jars


Not sure on going to five runs before I keep anything - might do a spirit run on the forth - not sure.


Thanks again for the help guys!

[canadadry]

I'm not totalllly sure I'm reading everything correct. After I do the first run through the still, from what I read from others collect everything including tails. Then do a spirit run? and thats my final product? I'm not sure what the second fermentation is all about..I'm not adding my alcohol back in the fermenting bucket right? Is the second fermentation done because you can re use the corn in it, or because in order to make the true whiskey you need to have a second fermentation off the previous leftovers ?

[Sabatour]

I'm not totalllly sure I'm reading everything correct. After I do the first run through the still, from what I read from others collect everything including tails. Then do a spirit run? and thats my final product? I'm not sure what the second fermentation is all about..I'm not adding my alcohol back in the fermenting bucket right? Is the second fermentation done because you can re use the corn in it, or because in order to make the true whiskey you need to have a second fermentation off the previous leftovers ?

They say you dont get a really good flavor profile until the third or 4th generation. When you decide to save stuff is second run or later - which in my case I am working on the third run and have still not bothered to do a spirit run.

No you are not adding any of the spirits back into the fermenting bucket as this will kill the yeast. What you are adding back is what is left in the boiler once it has cooled - with more sugar (yeast food) and water. You want the flavor of the backset (whats left in the boiler after a run) to enhance the flavor coming out of the fermenting bucket hence the sour mash. The more times you do this (to a point) the better the flavor gets.

Do some more reading bro - it will start to come together for ya

[Black Eye]

Spirit runs are great... But I haven't been running a ton lately. I keep a couple jars of first run and be really picky about what I mix and proof and it's still good sipping

[canadadry]

I'm not totalllly sure I'm reading everything correct. After I do the first run through the still, from what I read from others collect everything including tails. Then do a spirit run? and thats my final product? I'm not sure what the second fermentation is all about..I'm not adding my alcohol back in the fermenting bucket right? Is the second fermentation done because you can re use the corn in it, or because in order to make the true whiskey you need to have a second fermentation off the previous leftovers ?

They say you dont get a really good flavor profile until the third or 4th generation. When you decide to save stuff is second run or later - which in my case I am working on the third run and have still not bothered to do a spirit run.

No you are not adding any of the spirits back into the fermenting bucket as this will kill the yeast. What you are adding back is what is left in the boiler once it has cooled - with more sugar (yeast food) and water. You want the flavor of the backset (whats left in the boiler after a run) to enhance the flavor coming out of the fermenting bucket hence the sour mash. The more times you do this (to a point) the better the flavor gets.

Do some more reading bro - it will start to come together for ya

thanks man! Also, will all of this be able to fit into a 5 gallon bucket? The way im reading is you add the water then dump the corn in, idk if my bucket can handle this or if I should go buy a bigger bucket. Was thinking of building a 10 gallon rubbermaid mashing bucket, but if the 5 gallon bucket works I'd rather use that.