How is the new Affordable health care plan going to affect y

[mash rookie]

Thank you management for allowing us to have a civil discussion about recent political events.

Yes, I am from the left coast and most around here are pretty liberal. Having traveled the US much, I do understand that there are many varying points of view, particularly regionally. I am interested in everybody’s opinion. Lets play nice. I will attempt to keep my posts about subject matter.

Americans, We have heard from a half dozen members from Canada, Australia and across Europe that enjoy and appreciate their national health care. While their systems may not be perfect, I have not read one of our foreign brothers say they would opt out. I am very much interested in their thoughts as that may give us more insight to what to expect in the future.

So much political rhetoric has been spouted about this plan I don’t think anybody really knows yet how well it will work and what the costs will be. I don’t.

We have just now been told that insurance pools will be established where individuals will be able to shop for coverage. Will that offer cheaper or better coverage than I have now? I don’t know. Will it make coverage available to my daughter that she can afford? I don’t know that either.

While in my 30s I could get away with not having coverage, at 56 I can not risk it now. One major medical occurrence could cost me my home and assets that I have spent a life time scratching for.

In the last 30 years I have had and lost coverage several times for a variety of reasons. I made too much to qualify for some programs, Could not afford a program or find one I could that I could afford,
I have been canceled for making a claim once. Another time they raised my rates after my first back surgery to a point the premium was higher than my mortgage payment. They were going to get their money back quick. Greedy insurance companies blurr the line of right or wrong. Are they doctors or nurses? They often make life affecting decisions.

I think our system needs an overhaul. Will this one work? Even if it does not, or is repealed maybe it will start us moving in the right direction of making health care available.

Thank you everyone.
MR

[rad14701]

I'm all for universal healthcare... It will help eliminate the greed that US insurance and pharmaceutical companies currently have... Essentially, the same basic healthcare whether you are a multimillionaire, on public assistance, a middle class working family, an infirm citizen of any age, and everyone else... This country was not created so that the richest could be the healthiest and to hell with anyone who can't afford insurance or self-paid healthcare... Somewhere along the way the concept of improving the health of your fellow man, selflessly, became one of greed for wealth... What ever happened to the idea that a healthy country has a better chance of being a strong and prosper country...???

[guittarmaster]

How is the affordable health care plan going to effect me??? I'm considering moving to another country, who is John Gault??? Where is Silver Town???

better question is - who is John Rawls? Where is "a theory of justice" Best part is Barnes and Noble shelf it in the philosophy section, not as 'fiction'.

(not politics, philosophy)

[MuleKicker]

Hard to butt in here without getting political.but I will try. Our system is broken yes. But it is still the best system out there. All the foreign high powers and rich that live in countries with nationalized health care.... Where do they go for treatment???? The us. We all hate to see these big companies post record profits. No body likes to see people rake it in. But if it wasn't for those profits, where is the incentive to make the big advances? Capitalism is what drives this country, and the world. You take that away and there is no incentive to go big, and make the break throughs. Communism doesn't work.
The supreme courts decision to uphold this law and call it a tax is nothing short of damn scary. Whats next? Won't be long and this country will be broke... Hell, it already is. Time to tax our way out, right?

[whiskeytripping]

+1 Mulekicker

[blind drunk]

Germany, a capitalist country,is doing pretty well and they have one of best public health systems in the world. Canada's doing pretty good economically speaking, and we have a pretty decent system, overall. Everybody I know has had excellent had excellent health care. Sure, our taxes are higher, but we get stuff back. I think of it as an insurance policy; we all pay into it and draw on it when needed. Why's that bad?

[MuleKicker]

I have 1 question that the only answer I have gotten is from our media.. Do you have long waits, delayed or denied care? Meaning if you go in and your doctor says you need X test for what ever reason. Do you have to get that test approved by some government employee, and how long does it take?

[Bushman]

I have 1 question that the only answer I have gotten is from our media.. Do you have long waits, delayed or denied care? Meaning if you go in and your doctor says you need X test for what ever reason. Do you have to get that test approved by some government employee, and how long does it take?

I live close to the Canadian border and have heard the same complaints. I also know that a lot of people go to Canada for their medicine from this area as it is cheaper. My wifes cousins live in Norway and they are taxed heavily for everything, of course they on average make more than US citizens. The nice thing for them is at retirement they can really retire with a good salary and health benefits that don't take half their retirement check.

Grass always seems greener on the other side!

[LWTCS]

Not so sure the US medical treatment is all its cracked up to be? My sis in law is a pharm sales rep..
If you want fake titties or brain surgury,,,,,,we are good. The rest of the industry is a sloppy mess.
Their answer for most of what ails us fat bastards is some kind of pill......as we illiminate PE in our school systems and gobble down big Macs and big gulp coke........that shit kills more people along with automoblies than moonshine every will.

[emptyglass]

Like this dude?
I think he might have man titties too.

[MuleKicker]

Obviously if the payout to the hospitals/clinics go down, the quality of care goes down. My wife works for a very large health system in US. No names, just spread it on yer sammich . They are already talking about the changes they are going to implement in this new law. One being, if you come in to see a doctor for what ever reason, you dont see a doctor. You see a nurse. They are granted privileges to write prescriptions (under a doc). Its like calling a customer service line and getting a recording. How many times do you have to press "0" to get to an operator?
Thats just one change.

[LWTCS]

We get that now Mule? Maybe not everybody but thats what I get any way under the old system.

[mash rookie]

I'm all for universal healthcare... It will help eliminate the greed that US insurance and pharmaceutical companies currently have... Essentially, the same basic healthcare whether you are a multimillionaire, on public assistance, a middle class working family, an infirm citizen of any age, and everyone else... This country was not created so that the richest could be the healthiest and to hell with anyone who can't afford insurance or self-paid healthcare... Somewhere along the way the concept of improving the health of your fellow man, selflessly, became one of greed for wealth... What ever happened to the idea that a healthy country has a better chance of being a strong and prosper country...???

Well said Rad.

I agree. What the hell happened to "We The People" Yeah, We have the best care available. Available to who? I think the biggest problem with our system is that it is being managed by insurance companies that need to return a profit to share holders. They dictate who they will cover and what treatments they will cover as well. They literally wield the power of life and death daily with their commitment to corporate profits.
If insurance companies were not allowed to exist all those folks would have jobs in health care helping people instead of getting paid to say “no”

At the hospital where my girlfriend works they spend a lot of time making sure paper work is just perfect so they will get paid from Medicare or an insurance company and lament that they don’t pay enough for some procedures. Cross the “T’s” Dot the “I’s” because there is some dick somewhere looking for a reason to not pay.

as we illiminate PE in our school systems and gobble down big Macs and big gulp coke........

I agree with you to Larry. Fast food has super sized America destroying the health of many people. I say… "Just say no to Junk food"…. In a fast paced society people want to grab and go instead of eating healthy. I personally have not had a soda in 15 years and dont eat any junk food or fast food. I am not a health food nut. I just don’t eat crap. I have until recently exercised most of my adult life.

I am however putting a hurting on my liver. A guy has to have some vices besides chasing beautiful women.

[blind drunk]

I have 1 question that the only answer I have gotten is from our media.. Do you have long waits, delayed or denied care? Meaning if you go in and your doctor says you need X test for what ever reason. Do you have to get that test approved by some government employee, and how long does it take?

We' ve never experienced a long wait list. There are NO gov employees between our doctors and their patients. We just went through our system in a big way and it was nothing like that. I'm sure the Heritage Foundation can find examples where the Canadian system has failed, but pretty much everything that Hannity and Co say about our system are lies. Three years and still not Hannitized No death camps for the elderly. My mother had alzheimer's for close to 15 years and no government official came knocking at our door suggesting murder. Thems the facts. Like I said, it's not perfect, but it's decent and morally right. It probably makes economic sense as well. It's worth fighting for.

[rtalbigr]

We' ve never experienced a long wait list. There are NO gov employees between our doctors and their patients. We just went through our system in a big way and it was nothing like that. I'm sure the Heritage Foundation can find examples where the Canadian system has failed, but pretty much everything that Hannity and Co say about our system are lies. Three years and still not Hannitized No death camps for the elderly. My mother had alzheimer's for close to 15 years and no government official came knocking at our door suggesting murder. Thems the facts. Like I said, it's not perfect, but it's decent and morally right. It probably makes economic sense as well. It's worth fighting for.

A big problem is that we don't get accurate info from anybody. One news show says this, another says the opposite. That's what they are now is just shows, honest, accurate reporting just doesn't happen anymore. Forget about the politicians and the gov't. What we need is more info like you're given us BD, something straight from someone that is there.

Personally, I just don't see the Affordable Care Act working. I think the entire insurance industry needs to be restructured. Right now we have 50 different insurance industries, one for each state; just changing that could reduce costs considerably. Facility centralization would also reduce costs. I know an accountant who has been in the medical industry for 35 years. He says more money is WASTED because every hospital has to have the newest and best instead of simply sharing.

as we illiminate PE in our school systems and gobble down big Macs and big gulp coke........

I agree with you to Larry. Fast food has super sized America destroying the health of many people. I say… "Just say no to Junk food"…. In a fast paced society people want to grab and go instead of eating healthy. I personally have not had a soda in 15 years and dont eat any junk food or fast food. I am not a health food nut. I just don’t eat crap. I have until recently exercised most of my adult life.

I am however putting a hurting on my liver. A guy has to have some vices besides chasing beautiful women.

Amen! Like MR I don't eat fast food and very rarely have a soda. That stuff's poison! About 6-7 years ago I was with my daughter and she wanted to stop and get a burger at McDonald's. I told her I didn't eat that crap but I let her talk me into it, "Just one won't hurt you." Ya right, I was sick for two days.

Big R

[mash rookie]

I learned 25 years ago that news reporting can not be trusted. A friend and his wife disappeared and had been murdered. I was the last one to see them alive. It was a real who dun it mystery for a year before they charged and convicted two guys.
Knowing him well I was shocked when the local news would make up fresh stories about him almost daily. They reported that he was a major drug kingpin. It could not have been further from the truth. They would repeat what each other network reported. People took it as fact. Other friends would ask me “did you know Gary was a drug dealer?” It was terrible to see his reputation tarnished after being brutally murdered.

The press are a bunch of drama queens. Combine that with politicians using scare tactics to push their agenda and how much news can be trusted ????

[MuleKicker]

Flush the news media, Shoot all lobyests, and kick every incumbent out of office. Clean house and start over.

[LWTCS]

Forgot to abolish the IRS and implement sales tax on non essential purchases only and make the federal government build the budget based on previous years revenues,,,,,like the rest of hard working folks do.

[MuleKicker]

Forgot to abolish the IRS and implement sales tax on non essential purchases only and make the federal government build the budget based on previous years revenues,,,,,like the rest of hard working folks do.

My mistake. Thank you for correcting me.

[LWTCS]

My mistake. Thank you for correcting me.

Its cool. I figger it can be real tough to remember everything ya need to do when ya got so many broken down 6-ohs to fix in yer parking lot and not enough arms.

Hows the baby doing mule? She still poopin in her pants?

[mash rookie]

Our state has a sales tax but no income tax. It puts an unfair burden on the poor. They pay a higher percentage of their income to the state than people in a higher income bracket. They have to spend everything they make to survive. Wealthy spend about the same on taxed consumables as the poor.

Our greedy state has tried to pass an income tax ballot several times but is not offering to give up the sales tax. Who the hell would vote to be double taxed?

I have a doctor friend that moved from Oregon to Washington ten years ago to avoid the Oregon state income tax. He said that the average worker didn’t pay shit but those that made above 200K were getting screwed. I didnt show him much sympathy.

[LWTCS]

I'm talkin limitations not to exceed a certain percention

[Prairiepiss]

All I know is as it stands I pay out about 2/3 rds of my paycheck to insurance and taxes. I have to pay taxes to a city that j don't live it. And usually don't work in. But because my shop is in that city I have to pay their stupid taxes. I have to pay a state tax to a state I don't even live in. Then I have to turn around and pay the state I do live in. Then the state I don't live in credits some money back. But then later says I owe them a shite ton of money. Insurance I have to pay extra to cover my wife because she doesn't take the insurance at her job. Which would be double what I pay for a whole family. And I have to fight with them to pay for anything I have done. I live in a county that has the poorest population in the state. But yet we have the highest personal property taxes in the state. And they give huge corporations tax exemptions for around 10 years to get them in. So we have to carry the burden of huge corporations. That should be carrying our weight. Did I mention the city and the county merged into one entity. But yet we still have different city and county taxes. All the money goes to improving the area around the Kansas speedway. Our roads closer in town you need a 4wheel drive to navigate. They also control or should I say monopolize the utilities water, gas, sewer, trash and electric. Not to mention the ridiculous taxes on them. Gasoline is 10 cents more on this side of the state line. Cigarettes are $5 more a carton on this side too.

And all I can do is try to survive. From paycheck to paycheck.

[MuleKicker]

My mistake. Thank you for correcting me.

Its cool. I figger it can be real tough to remember everything ya need to do when ya got so many broken down 6-ohs to fix in yer parking lot and not enough arms.

Hows the baby doing mule? She still poopin in her pants?

nope. she poopin in a potty. Been doin it since 18 months. No shit. Broke down sick-o's.... Dont know where to start there. They be payin my health ins.

[LWTCS]

Poopin on the potty already aye! Good for her....
My best to you and yours

[mash rookie]

Poopin on the potty already aye! Good for her....
My best to you and yours

Nobody can take a thread off topic faster than you LW. WTF? Can you PM that kind of chatter? JFC!

[Husker]

Personally, I just don't see the Affordable Care Act working. I think the entire insurance industry needs to be restructured. Right now we have 50 different insurance industries, one for each state; just changing that could reduce costs considerably. Facility centralization would also reduce costs. I know an accountant who has been in the medical industry for 35 years. He says more money is WASTED because every hospital has to have the newest and best instead of simply sharing.

I know I stated I would stay out of this, but I just could not help myself.

The quote I am using, is not so much re-directed back at rtalbigr, it just happens to have 2 parts that I wanted to talk about.

First off, one big problem we have is there is NO SUCH THING as health insurance in this country. However most ppl 'believe' so, and thus are fooled and want to treat it as such. If there were health insurance, then you would pay 500 to 800 a year on insurance. It would never cover things like dr office visits, routine care, medication, etc. Does anyone go to their auto insurance company when they need to fill up the tank with gas? when they need to change oil? When they need new tires/wipers? Nope.

What we have in this country is PRE PAID medical. We really NEED to stop calling it insurance, IT IS NOT. However, being that it is pre-paid medical, we do not act appropriately (as a group of people). As a group, we demand things like every trivial expense paid for. We do not shop around ourselves, or try t maintain costs in any way. Also, on the back side, we have the hospitals quadrupling (or more) the prices they charge, since the goobernent medical programs ('care and 'caid) do not payout well. So the hospitals are playing the shell game. As a society, we think insurance, we pay our 'premiums' then expect to live forever. Along with that, we have become overly litigious (fukin tort lawyers!!!). The whole system IS already unsustainable, and based upon a fantasy.

However, does ANYONE believe the gooberment is going to do it any better? Any cheaper? Any more 'fair'. If so, I have a large plot of land to sell, that at one time was river front property (before the damn).



The second point I want to make is one that you hear thrown around A LOT. That is this mythical 50 states all with their own insurance companies.

Well folks, ever heard of the 10th amendment? Each state has written it's own laws, added it's own mandates. About the only way to legally build policies that work across state lines, is to make all of the coverage a union of each states mandates. Either that, or get the states to drop some of their mandates. This is what the system is, and WHY it is that way. This IS what happens when goobernent gets involved in commerce, and starts writing laws. Now we have a bill (er, law), that is probably 20x bigger and more obnoxious than ANY of the former state laws. And there is a HUGE drum beat to simply have 'universal' policy capabilities. Well, if that is going to happen, then you will get either 1. a 2x or 3x more expensive bloated set of plans, because they have to cover EVERYTHING across all states OR you end up fuking the states and usurping their rights.

Either way, the whole thing is almost certain to fold like a house of cards. As a people, we have gotten our expectations and behaviors SO out of whack, when it comes to health care. We treat ourselves like shit, expect to live forever, and do not want to pay for shit. Those are 3 mutually exclusive directions, but we think we can do them all.


I am going to slink back into my hole for now. I really should not have posted.

H.

[mash rookie]

I've avoided comment on this because it's soo sensitive of a subject. I'm basically conservative 66% and liberal 33% and 1% undecided.

My wife went blind 10 years ago because of ms. She had a catheter, couldn't see, couldn't walk. Pure hell! It happened so quick, weeks. As soon as the neurologist gave the diagnosis she became uninsurable. We spent our life savings paying doctors, test, MRI.....ect. It killed us. Luckily because of the blindness she qualified for SS. But not untill a year and half of doctors, neurologist, and a host of other specialist concluded she's fucked. Most people with ms don't qualifie for ss and must bare all the expenses. The drugs she was taking cost 1500$ a month. Medicare doesn't cover these drugs, it's all out of pocket.

I am Sorry to hear about your wife RC. If you were rich you would have had access to the finest care available. If we had universal coverage you would have had immediate care at what ever level that will be. BD and OD seem to think that their countries do pretty well. You would think we can do as well as them at taking care of our citizens.

[Kidnapper2]

The ACA (affordable care act), has some very good things to it, and some very bad things to it. But simply put, it is an unsustainable system. Some can argue if the act is designed to fail or not, but the politics of it really don't matter now.

The act will increase the medicaid/medicare roles by some 30 million people. The act also allows a few million people to be exempt from it. Add into the mix that the US now has more under employed and unemployed people than in the last 30 years leaves the act underfunded. With the increased numbers of those who get "free" care, there is no increase in health care facilities or health care workers which will make getting care a lot tougher. If you have ever been to an impoverished area emergency room, you will understand what I mean.

With the "tax" of not having insurance being lower than the cost of insurance and the simple fact that no company can deny you coverage for any reason, or charge a higher rate for a condition there is no reason to carry insurance. Pay out of pocket for check ups and such, and if you ever have an emergency situation, or are diagnosed with a serious illness, call an insurance agent first, pay the premium and you're covered.

So there is either 2 options left after the previously mentioned and many other factors happen. Scratch the system and go back to the old way, or upgrade to a full single payer/socialized medicine system.

All I can say as opinion is this. Look at Japan's system. They do not have a socialized system, they have private pay insurance. Their system is extremely similar to the US traditional system with a better designed safety net for those that are less advantaged. And they are basically the healthiest country on earth with the longest life expectancy.

I have very good health insurance, but haven't always and am in constant concern with keeping my coverage due to the construction industry and it's ups and downs over the last few years. But have been notified that rates will be going up with the act being deemed constitutional. All I can say is I hope the govt. doesn't "fix" things so much that I can no longer afford or have the option to health care for me and my family.

[Coolbreeze]

I'm for a change in general....Not the Affordable health care plan as written, word for word. If our elected representatives would start working together as AMERICANS , and listen to what we are saying, things just may get better....

I found a FREE link to the 5 year old documentary called "Sicko". Its about health care here and around the world. Try to watch and listen to the complete 2 hours. Then decide what is needed http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/sicko/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow