Gerber

[rad14701]

Hey Rad,

Have you ever tried this recipe using different yeast. Curious if you or anyone else has used lalvin EC-1118 in this wash for colder months.

Nope... I haven't used any yeast other than bakers yeast in decades, since the late 70's to early 80's when wine and champagne became scarce in my area...

[northernstillin]

Hey all,
Just started 2-20L Gerber washes earlier today, is it normal for it to take a while before it really starts bubbling?
My process:
Invert 4- 2kg bags of sugar in water
Pour and divide contents into 2 glass carbouys
Add water to make total volume 20L per carbouy
Add Gerber cereal to each Carbouy
Pitch yeast in.

Correct?

I would add some pics but seem to be having some trouble doing so.

[northernstillin]

Well, my washes are bubbling but very slowly, about 1 bubble every 8 seconds. This is kind of slow IMO. Any suggestions...maybe a little more patience?

[tomgndallas]

patience yes!

[Odin]

Northernstilling,

If you could put up a bit more info, people might help you better. How long is your ferment going on, for instance? At what temp are you fermenting? Which yeast do you use and in what quantities?

Odin.

[northernstillin]

A little background, I started the wash late sunday afternoon. The yeast i used was Lalvin EC-1118 and i pitched it in after the wash cooled down to about 20C. Im not sure of the SG, my hydrometer broke before i made this wash, picking a new one up tomorrow. Have some of you had better success dissolving the nutrients while inverting the sugar as opposed to adding the nutrients to the total volume of wash and then stirring/shaking to mix it up?
Even tonight, wednesday, its still bubbling at about once every 7 seconds.

Thanks

[Dnderhead]

its nothing for a ferment to go a week ,make it one weekend ,distill the next.
did you aerate the wash before pitching? that will shorten the lag time.
higher temps will speed up the ferment.24c-27c is good for most yeast.

[WalkingWolf]

. . . . its still bubbling at about once every 7 seconds

I'd open it and stir it a couple of times with a long spoon. This will release the CO2 in the wash. Taste the wash -- if it doesn't have anymore sweet taste it is finished. 7 seconds between bubbles sounds mighty slow. These cereal washes have a lot of nutrients and on a first run this could finish pretty quick. Buy your hydrometers and alcometers in twos (at least) then when you break one (and you most certainly will) you can continue to operate while you reload (I know this last statement was simply restating the obvious but I couldn't help it)

[northernstillin]

So this morning i gave it a good stir and gave it a taste. Its still very sweet. I cant really figure out whats gone wrong...do most of you make a yeast starter?
Maybe i should have dissolved the gerber in the water as i inverted the sugar...puzzled. does the wash still seem salvageable or is it a total bust and start over?

[Dnderhead]

starters should not be necessary,,,,unless..using liquid yeast,old/miss handheld yeast,,high sg,,preservatives..
did you aireate? if not you can now to give it a boost.
bring the temp up to 24c.

[rad14701]

So this morning i gave it a good stir and gave it a taste. Its still very sweet. I cant really figure out whats gone wrong...do most of you make a yeast starter?
Maybe i should have dissolved the gerber in the water as i inverted the sugar...puzzled. does the wash still seem salvageable or is it a total bust and start over?

No yeast starter for me with this recipe...

You pinpointed what I think is the problem... I always boil the cereal in water to release the nutrients... I don't consider thick sugar syrup as a good way to go about it... I feel that the thick sugar does more to seal up the nutrients in the cereal than help release them...

[northernstillin]

Thanks for the suggestion Rad. Ill remember that for the next run...rookie mistake.
So today I stopped at the wine shop and got a new hydrometer and my good bud at the wine shop suggested some yeast energizer.
So when i got home i raised the temperature of the wash to 24C and poured the energizer in and gently stirred it up and now (about 4 hours later) its bubbling about once every second. So I think im in the clear for now. Note: Hydrometer reading 1.070...ill keep you posted as to when it gets below 1.000.

[northernstillin]

Bubbling real nice now!!! Disaster averted!!!

[tomgndallas]

great results from this last gerber... 7.5 gallons finished in a week, down to .996 FG, and I just racked to a secondary fermenter to let it clear a couple days before I rack into my boiler. I am thinking of just basically strip running this with my reflux, tossing foreshots and a little heads and putting it all in feints. This will build my inventory up such that I will have a nice fat run for a second distallation of my feints. I will have about a gallon and a half I think of full strength, so this will make a nice run.

Cheers

oh yes, mods to this wash... used the fermax and made sure I aerated about 30 to 40 minutes. I used 7 tsp per gallon fermax, and a pinch of epsom. I think this really helped the wash out. I was not expecting it to finish so soon. I stirred it last night, and tasted the spoon, dang it was dry! so I checked the SG and here we are.

[northernstillin]

So now both washes have finished fermenting and are both down to .994 SG. Ive racked them both and now are clearing nicely. Ill likely run it through the still on the weekend...cant wait!!!

[tomgndallas]

it is a great feeling. i will be doing some stilling this weekend as well. 4 gallons of wposw and another 5 gallons of the same using a different yeast. good luck, let us know how it goes!

[tomgndallas]

just started another 6 gallons of gerber with EC1118 yeast. i like the compact lees and the way it clears compared to the bakers yeast. i compared 2 wposw, the ec1118 was chrystal clear after only one rack, the active dry fleishmanns was mostly clear after a second racking to a glass carboy. got nearly 2 gallons now of spirit that will go into an all spirit run this weekend while my wife is working.

[grainhopper]

I just tried this recipe with a few different touches. Its the hardest fermenting wash That I have used.
The question I have is this..has anyone had their wash, from the beginning, all the bran go straight to the bottom..except from the occasional grain floating to the top, it never formed a cap either. It looks as if it has already been cleared but it's hammering away.

Grainhopper

[tomgndallas]

yes. i always attributed it to proofing my yeast first and puring it in versus dry pitching it on the top. bran and gerber both settle to zhe bottom, but it just bangs away and is done in a week to two weeks. then rack to secondary let er clear and stll it.

[CH3CH2OH]

How much ec-1118 should I use in a 5 gallon batch?

[WalkingWolf]

Use 1 pack -- proof it in suger water for 30-60 minutes then dump it in. EC1118 has never failed a single wash for me.

[tomgndallas]

ditto, it is great yeast.

[CH3CH2OH]

here is the plan:

5 gal water
18 cups sugar
4 1/2 cups gerber
1pkg ec-1118
1/2 tsp epsom salt

sound about right to you guys???

[WalkingWolf]

Sounds the same if you scale up the original recipe -- Give it a shot it should be fine. Be sure to familiarize yourself with the nuances of how this is prepared to get the maximum from your cereal.

[CH3CH2OH]

by nuances do you mean

inverting the sugar for a half hour with half the water

mix with the rest of water and other ingredients less yeast

pour in proofed ec-1118 after temp is < 95'

aerate well for first half hour

or anything else I should be doing??

[rad14701]

@CH3CH2OH

Or you could actually invert the sugar rather than thinking that simply boiling does more than dissolving it... It won't matter whether you boil it for 1 minute or 100 if you don't add acid to cause it to invert...

[CH3CH2OH]

Thanks rad, i guess i am misunderstanding your first post

"Ingredients
* 3.5 cups sugar
* 4 liters water
* 1 cup Gerber Barley flavored baby cereal
* 2 tbsp active baking yeast

Process
* Simmer equal amounts of water and sugar for 30 minutes or longer to invert sugar.
* Combine boiled components with cold water and cereal to bring up to total volume.
* Let cool to 95F.
* Pitch yeast.
* Aerate for one hour.
* Cap and insert air lock.

Notes
* No lemon juice was used while inverting the sugar. Doing so may or may not be of benefit."

What do you suggest I should use? lemon juice or something else?

Thanks

[tomgndallas]

if you do not have citric acid powder on hand, lemon juice will suffice. search the thread for how much. i think for that batch two lemons, of course make sure you strain the juice for pulp and seeds so they dont end up in your wash. Others have used the lemon juice you buy in the bottle too, but for some reason i seem to remember that the fresh lemon was preferred. maybe it was a bitter flavor thing or preservatives?

[CH3CH2OH]

thanks

Lets try this again to make sure I have this right!!!

Ingredients

* 17 cups sugar
* 4.5 gallons water
* 4 cups Gerber
* 1 pkg ec-1118
* 1/2 tsp citric acid

Used a little less water and sugar to leave room in the carbouy for the frementation

Process

* Simmer equal amounts of water and sugar with 1/2 tsp citric acid for 30 - 45 minutes at 180'-200'F to invert sugar.
* Combine inverted sugar with cold water to bring up to total volume and stir well.
* Add cereal and stir well.
* Let cool to 95F.
* Pour in ec-1118 that was proofed in 100' F water for 15 mins as per instructions on packet
* Aerate well for one hour to start aerobic process.
* Cap and insert air lock.

Would it be better to do the whole process in a 22l carbouy or to do all the mixing and aerating in a 5 gal pail and then transfer it over to the carbouy to ferment?

Thanks

[WalkingWolf]

If you have the option to ferment in a fermentation bucket as opposed to a carboy I'd go bucket. Buckets are a lot easier to work with and clean. Time to quit asking questions and move forward. Old hands get wore thin on 20 questions.