Dan P. wrote:PP, thank you for your informative post!
I don't know if I really answered your question?
There would or could be reasons to separate the feints from different recipes.
Say you wanted a specific flavor in your vodka. Let's say you wanted a rye vodka. Maybe you wanted it to make a genever or the like. And wanted a nice rye base to use. Then using only rye whiskey feints would be a better plan. That way you get some good rye whiskey and a good base for rye genever.
Or say you wanted to fortifie a wine. Then feints from a good grape brandy would be better.
Feints from a rum might be good for a butterscotch schnapps.
Possibilities are endless.
With a better neutral still design. The flavor profiles wouldn't come though as much. Which could be a good thing. Or a bad thing. Depending on how you look at it.
Dan P. wrote:PP, thank you for your informative post!
I don't know if I really answered your question?
You answered my question very fully!
You could also have answered it by saying; "I don't re-run my feints because I run a plated column".
I forget to specify what kind of still we are talking about. It happens all the time. For my old grand-dad puffing billy still, not re-cycling feints in successive runs is unthinkable, you'd lose too much. If, however, you are running at the efficiency of your C3PO (Star Wars reference, for you youngins) still, feints will be more concentrated and you understandably will handle them differently.
But the long answer was better, anyway.
For me, feints are feints... I don't give a rats ass where they came from, they all get mixed together... They're just white dog feints, period, and either get tossed in with a batch of fresh wash or get refluxed by themselves... Nothing scientific... Never end up with too much heads or tails no matter what method I choose to use... All I do is experiment with how far down to dilute... If a jar of heads or tails smells too bad, from any run, it gets chucked into my foreshots jar rather than saved as feints...
rad14701 wrote:For me, feints are feints... I don't give a rats ass where they came from, they all get mixed together... They're just white dog feints, period, and either get tossed in with a batch of fresh wash or get refluxed by themselves... Nothing scientific... Never end up with too much heads or tails no matter what method I choose to use... All I do is experiment with how far down to dilute... If a jar of heads or tails smells too bad, from any run, it gets chucked into my foreshots jar rather than saved as feints...
I don't recommend tossing rum feints into and AG spirit run.
I keep them seperate. I will mix panela with rum, and wheat AG with barley (or whatever), but I do not cross pollinate. Apple with apple, plum with plum. You might get away with putting AG feints in a heavy rum wash. And keep your peated AG feints seperate too, unless you don't mind it being in there.
Or chuck them all together and make some tutti-frutti frankenshine. Whatever floats you boat.
rad14701 wrote:For me, feints are feints... I don't give a rats ass where they came from, they all get mixed together... They're just white dog feints, period, and either get tossed in with a batch of fresh wash or get refluxed by themselves... Nothing scientific... Never end up with too much heads or tails no matter what method I choose to use... All I do is experiment with how far down to dilute... If a jar of heads or tails smells too bad, from any run, it gets chucked into my foreshots jar rather than saved as feints...
I don't recommend tossing rum feints into and AG spirit run.
I keep them seperate. I will mix panela with rum, and wheat AG with barley (or whatever), but I do not cross pollinate. Apple with apple, plum with plum. You might get away with putting AG feints in a heavy rum wash. And keep your peated AG feints seperate too, unless you don't mind it being in there.
Or chuck them all together and make some tutti-frutti frankenshine. Whatever floats you boat.
+1 gotta agree with this. The only exception to this I ever made was for the vodka. Which I will now rename Tutti Fruiti FrankenVodka. Truthfully it was mostly grain based feints, but had a little rum feints and sugarhead feints tossed in for giggles.
I just ran a run of 6g Ujssm countless gens going with 6 liters of heads and a gl of tails 2x using water to cut and it turned out good with tight cuts mild grain flavor just good. The final heads I put in the fores bottles and tails to add to a future run, in the pot still that barley hangs around in spirit and I like the flavor once again personal taste you can't buy off the rack. Jimbo said early on in my reading don't throw the alc away in them tails that's where the good stuff hides.
Everything's better home made, everything!!
15.5 keg 7.75keg 2"pot still, Gold CM
Never look down on a man unless it's to help him up.
I just taste tested my feints run that's been on toasted/charred oak for 2 weeks. I had added a small piece of vanilla bean just for shits and grins. Tasted it today...pretty damn good.
sounder_4 wrote:I just taste tested my feints run that's been on toasted/charred oak for 2 weeks. I had added a small piece of vanilla bean just for shits and grins. Tasted it today...pretty damn good.
Glad it worked out for you. I tried adding just a tiny piece of vanilla bean to some neutral, and everyone hated it including myself.
I put a 1 inch slice off a vanilla bean in a fifth of bourbon once on a wild hair whim. Still havent finished that fifth. The vanilla caramel notes from oak seem perfect. And vanilla itself seems so wrong in there. Hard to describe
I used less than Jimbo. The vanilla flavor was all by itself with literally nothing else there. Like chewing on a vanilla bean. A bunch of people tried it just to make the yuk face.
Can anyone point to a definitive thread or suggest some good search terms that would cover "dumping interesting stuff into the product to add character?"
I prefer normal shine runs, better than runs made from feints only.
It has more flavor and character, I can play with using cuts, oaking and aging
In the past, I've added feints back to the stripping run and/or the spirit run.
Some times I still use some of the tails part of feints this way.
Now I do feints only run with a pot, thumper, column with tight cuts for a clean neutral spirit.
Friends and family like the neutral. I don't
In my opinion you can't beat an ol vanilla bean. Personaly don't think it could ever be over done.
Granted throwing one into a neutral is just making vanilla extract. The spirits need to have some character of their own first. It's like oaking a neutral. It just gives you a oak wood flavored spirit. You need the flavors from a whiskey or rum to make it work right.
Shady You are comparing apples to oranges. And that is what many do. Thinking that what they get from an all feints run. Will be close if not the same as the original run. They are very different. And you have to go into it thinking they will be very different. And figure out the best way to use them to your benefit.
Here is another example of a good use for them would be.
Do an all feints run. Then use the hearts collected from that run. In a fresh mash run. Instead of adding more heads and tails to the next run. Add just the good ol hearts. It would end up being like you did a stripping run and a spirit run. In one go. With a lot more product collected.
Or add those feints to the backset of a run. Let them meld and or marry with them. Then do a spirit run with them. Gaining good flavors left over from the backset. Or dunder if that's the case.
I could probably sit here and think of 50 ways to use feints to make a good product. They may not all be a good product for each individual. But out of those 50 ways there has to be one or two that will work for each individual.
There are so many ways to skin this cat. You are only hurting yourself. If you don't experiment with all the possibilities. If you don't like the outcome of one way. Try another. And another and another. What's it gona hurt? It gives you stillin time. It's making better use of something you would throw away normally. And it will eventualy give you something you will be proud of making. You only loose a little bit of your time. Maybe a little propane or electricity. But in the end. It's all part of the fun of this great hobby.
A couple days ago I barreled my 2013 apple brandy run. It was sitting on wood in quart jars till now. 2013 I did some experimentation with different yeasts, differnet woods and (the point of this diatribe) an all feints run.
There were 7 different things jar'd seperately (1 pint kept of each for further tasting). There are 3 different yeasts on oak, 3 different yeasts on apple wood and an all feints run on oak. I tasted all 7 carefully side by side. Ill write about the yeast and apple wood observations in my apple thread soon. But as far as the all feints run, wow! I have 5 quarts of 62% hearts from the all feints run, if that were poured down the drain it would be a horrible loss. It is my favorite of all 7. Ive been wondering why for a couple days. My thoughts 1)Its a blend of all the yeasts so nice balance of esters and fruit. 2) its double run, so cleaner, in that sense, ironically. Cleaner is nice at this young age of only 6 months.
Prairiepiss wrote:Nice Jimbo. 5 qts is a lot of good product to toss out. Glad you saved it. And got a really good product out of it.
How did you run it off? Just single run all feints pot still?
Right, 5 quarts at 62% is almost 10 fifths of 80 proof. The feints from the feints run I pitched, at some point, feints of feints just doesnt make sense, but we could prolly start up a whole nuther myth thread on that and the magic of the VM/LM hybrid. LOL
Yes, it was a potstill run of the collection of many feints, minus the fores, from all the earlier apple runs. I dont remember the total qty of feints I had, notes are at home, I think 3 gallons or so.
Now how did it taste off the still? Did you think it was gona be as good as it is then?
I think many also get caught up on how it tastes off the still. But if they would just toss it on some oak. Or even leave it white. And age it good. It may end up being very good.
My very first run. Was a sweetfeed with pellets. I had it and thought what the hell. I found it to be horrid off the still. And I probably (more then likely) made really bad cuts on it. I went ahead and tossed it in a jar with some oak. And years later it turned out to be a fine drink. I still have it. I take a sip now and then. Still in the same jar still the same oak. And I think it only gets better every time I take a sip.
I know that has nothing to do with feints. But the same can go for a feints product. Like Jimbo has shown. Don't discount a product right off the bat.
Prairiepiss wrote:Now how did it taste off the still? Did you think it was gona be as good as it is then? It was good off the still, but nothing like now
I think many also get caught up on how it tastes off the still. But if they would just toss it on some oak. Or even leave it white. And age it good. It may end up being very good. Agreed. In fact to take that one step further. You NEED some heads and tails in anything but a neutral (by definition, its not a neutral after all). The trick is learning how to use the crystal ball to determine how much, knowing that the cardboardy tails flavor turns into real flavor and character with age, especially with whiskeys. A challenge with apple brandy (any fruit brandy) is heads. Ya cant lop it off or you lop off the fruit flavor which comes over early. But too much heads and you get that aldehyde hardness. Honestly I think I didnt cut enough heads on the 2012 batch, worried about losing flavor. Its aged and warm now, tails gone, but heads, aldehydes never go away. And its more pronounced now that the rest of the cut is mellowed so nice. A little frustrating. I been making apple brandy for 20 years now, and just when I think I have it wired, I get slapped in the head, serves me right. This hobby is a lifelong work in progress.
My very first run. Was a sweetfeed with pellets. I had it and thought what the hell. I found it to be horrid off the still. And I probably (more then likely) made really bad cuts on it. I went ahead and tossed it in a jar with some oak. And years later it turned out to be a fine drink. I still have it. I take a sip now and then. Still in the same jar still the same oak. And I think it only gets better every time I take a sip.
I know that has nothing to do with feints. But the same can go for a feints product. Like Jimbo has shown. Don't discount a product right off the bat.
I know everyone's method is different as is everyone's taste but fruit head faints is just as bad as anything I ever tasted and apples might just be at the very top of my list. I would not blend one drip of that liquid hell into my Calvados no way no how. After what I said this is one of a few faints I would only run to neutral, don't know if its a touch of methanol or what but apple faints I found is bad shit just my two bits
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.Benjamin Franklin
Scribbler wrote:Did the vanilla been add a lot of favour? How about color?
The cinnamon added a touch of red (it was already dark from the oak). First try with cinnamon and vanilla bean. Cinnamon taste is predominate, next time may try vanilla bean alone.
Just to be clear, this is not the flavor I'm going for when I make UJSSM. This was an all feints spirit run and I wasn't particularly pleased with the flavor so I threw the cinnamon and vanilla in the jug just to see what would happen. It made it spicy yet pretty darned drinkable...I'm not disappointed. If I do this again, I'll suspend the cinnamon and vanilla bean in cheese cloth tied with a string so that I can pull it out of the jug before it imparts too much added flavor.
Just another learning experience. Once I begin making AG I don't expect to be messing with any flavor additives.
Thanks PP for taking the time to type all of that out and share it with us, one of the best single posts Ive seen here. 
