FLUTE TALK

[Austin Nichols]

I can hold my flute up in the air and the plate tree wont fall out, it's a real bitch to get in and out.

My plates are 3mm thick, I used the drill press and file to finish them off, the fit is as close to perfect as one could want.

Cheers.

[Samohon]

I like that Idea Austin... Thanks man...

[olddog]

You could use a PTFE seal on the shaft seals which would be made like a compression fitting.


OD

[Kentucky shinner]

That will work great(flour paste) until you move the lever You could use stainless washer inside and out with cork fitted really tight so when you tightened the washers against the cork with stainless nuts it would squeeze the cork tight making a seal. I think that would work pretty well.

[Austin Nichols]

I like that Idea Austin... Thanks man...

My pleasure

In regards to your other question earlier, I'm using a 4 ring burner to run my rigs but never run all 4 rings once she's rockin.

[olddog]

pm
Oh and I was told you need walls for bubble plates to be efficient.

If your plates are a good enough fit, why would you need walls? the early plate builds, the plates were made with a pair of tinsnips and filed the edges smooth, and some did not fit too well resulting in weepage around the edge of the plate, now we are virtually turning them we can get a perfect fit, and no walls are required.


OD

[kenfyoozed]

I agree if they are sealed , or tight fight walls shouldnt be needed. But hey, what do i know. We will be able to test weather walls are needed very soon.

[kenfyoozed]

RC, hope i didnt make you mad. Just saying i had read that bubble plates needed walls, especially if they were removable. Mine will be permanent, sealed to column, hope it works out fine. I cant wait to run it.

[Mr.Spooky]

i made mine with snips. i think i was about build #3 but dont quote me on that... look at how far it has come just between build #3 and build 12 or so. imagine what the advances will be on build # 100. were all in this together, and i for one, am just hapy to be apart of it. FUCK FUCK
jason

[squidd]

...... it's called a butterfly valve which when open gives you full throttle, when closed it's completely shut off. This could be simply incorporated into a column with the plate being the butterfly,with a simple lever through the column it could be opened or closed, or plate enabled or plate disabled. KISS

OD

OD,

Myles' idea is to fit an external drain tube and a valve between each section.

No moving parts other than the valve handle.
No seals required through the column.

Pretty hard to be much KISSer than that.

squidd

[Kiwi-lembic]

OD, that seems to be a perfect idea! Should work great in a perf plate. Got any ideas for bubble caps? I'm not wanting to start an issue of which is better, i think that horse has been beat enough, but looking for ideas from someone who definitly thinks outside the box. Come one OD , what ya got? I know you got to have something? Lets keep going!

Umm a solid copper rivet maybe .or get a wire thickness you need cut longish bits to keep your hands away from the heat hold it with vise grips itll get hot ,flux just the end of it ....tip it upside down and hit it with oxy aceteleyne ,it should turn into a wee ball on the end if you spin it as you do it ...take this and put it in a solid steel plate with a hole the same size as your wire and smack it with the hammer ,thatll put a cap on it ..while its still in the plate file its top flat and run some fine sand paper over wrapped around a flat stick..If you want it pretty on the edges put it in your drill pull the trigger and use a file and this should round it up ...im pickin this will work in the scale we work with .the down side is it probably does require oxy acet' to get the heat required to form the melted ball on the end ..might help someone here

[olddog]

Myles' idea is to fit an external drain tube and a valve between each section.No moving parts other than the valve handle.No seals required through the column.Pretty hard to be much KISSer than that.squidd

I totally agree with you Squidd, Myles idea is an excellent one, although the experts have pointed out, the valves would have to be turned off in sequence, but this could be simply overcome by taking the output of each valve into a common down pipe, instead of having one valve leading to the one below.
This would still leave the plates in place which would still allow refluxing of the now passive plate, just like packing in a column, whereas a butterfly option would only present the edge of the plate to the upcoming vapor. Myles idea would be an easier option, if you were not worried about the bit of extra reflux.


OD

[Austin Nichols]

Well...........Moving away from the "great plate debate"

I thought I would throw a question out there to those who are already running the bubble plate design, that doesnt seem to have much info on.

Where has everyone been mounting their temp probe?

I am going to put mine above the deflamagatorer in the top of the first 90 degree bend, but I'm interested in others opinions on why they put their thermometers where they did.

And.... does anyone think there would be any advantage of having a second thermometer just below the delphagometer?

Cheers.

[olddog]

Mine is about an inch (25cm) below the dephlagmater, and when running and taking hearts maintains 78-79 degrees.


OD

[Austin Nichols]

It's funny ya know, out of this whole build I never gave it a second thought.

I was standing there looking at it today and thought something is missing... WTF!.... OH OK DUH!

[Prairiepiss]

OD if you were to build the butterfly plates what would you do for the downcomers? I guess you could use a p trap style that would move with the rotation of the plate. It would have to be a 180 turn in less than 2" kinda tight? Just a thought!

[likkerluvver]

The plate would only have to rotate a few degrees and not have to rotate 90 degrees to disable it. Should still be enough room for a J.

...Or is my thinking faulty?

[Prairiepiss]

Another thought? If you went with a butterfly plate. Wouldn't you have to disable the bottom plate and work your way up? You couldn't start in the middle because it would double the distance between plates. This would take it past the recommended 4 to 6 inches between plates. Or are does this really matter?

I have a question or theory about the downcomers. I haven't seen anyone use a p trap style with a perforated plate? I've seen them with the bubblecap plates. Here is my thinking correct me if I'm wrong. If you were to use a j downcomer with a perforated plate. The dropping fluid could have more potential of causeing the plate to collapse. From the force of the falling fluid overcoming the vapors rising? Where the bubblecaps would divert this falling fluid. But then again the dephlagmater does pretty much the same thing on the top plate. So is this something to be concerned with? Again just thoughts that have been running through my head while planning my build.

And I just thought of a butterfly valve that I think could be modified to work as a plate. Let me find it again and I will post a pic of it.

[Prairiepiss]

Wow I didn't look at the prices when I found them. Even with my 15% discount that's high. But they are still cool valves. And could be modified to work as plates. Or at least give someone ideas. I like the fact it goes inline where a triclamp would.

[Kentucky shinner]

I think the idea of the drain tube from each plate with a valve on each into a larger main drain is the best idea. It really would not be that hard to do either. This flute brainstorming is great. Room full of great ideas flying around.

[rad14701]

I'm going to throw this one out there again, just because... If someone was to attempt adjustable perforated plates they can resolve several issues at the same time... I'd love to give it a go but I simply don't have the resources to tinker these days...

First, the adjustable perforated plate can be calibrated using a wire gauge to find the optimal hole size, with some calculating, for a specific plate in the tree... It has already been discussed that different plates may require different hole sizes or number of holes to achieve the same effect... Doing this would at least find the general ballpark for both... The holes just need to start out a bit bigger, perhaps 2X, than theoretically needed...

Second, opening the holes in the perforated plate to allow dumping would essentially eliminate the plate, allowing vapor to bypass it freely, as well as letting reflux rain down freely...

Granted, the two layered plates would probably need to be machined and permanently fixed, but I think they would at the very least serve as a learning platform if nothing else... I can visualize them, I just don't have a shop or the financial resources to give this one a go... If I did, I would already have a working example... This has been eating at me since before the whole flute craze started, when folks were still busy building 3" Bokakobs and VM columns...

[Kentucky shinner]

I'm going to throw this one out there again, just because... If someone was to attempt adjustable perforated plates they can resolve several issues at the same time... I'd love to give it a go but I simply don't have the resources to tinker these days...

First, the adjustable perforated plate can be calibrated using a wire gauge to find the optimal hole size, with some calculating, for a specific plate in the tree... It has already been discussed that different plates may require different hole sizes or number of holes to achieve the same effect... Doing this would at least find the general ballpark for both... The holes just need to start out a bit bigger, perhaps 2X, than theoretically needed...

Second, opening the holes in the perforated plate to allow dumping would essentially eliminate the plate, allowing vapor to bypass it freely, as well as letting reflux rain down freely...

Granted, the two layered plates would probably need to be machined and permanently fixed, but I think they would at the very least serve as a learning platform if nothing else... I can visualize them, I just don't have a shop or the financial resources to give this one a go... If I did, I would already have a working example... This has been eating at me since before the whole flute craze started, when folks were still busy building 3" Bokakobs and VM columns...

I remember you posting this idea . I have thought about it many times. When i get some thing caught up around here i may try that rad. It would be a great learning tool for sure .

[squidd]

Myles' idea is to fit an external drain tube and a valve between each section.No moving parts other than the valve handle.No seals required through the column.Pretty hard to be much KISSer than that.squidd

I totally agree with you Squidd, Myles idea is an excellent one, although the experts have pointed out, the valves would have to be turned off in sequence, but this could be simply overcome by taking the output of each valve into a common down pipe, instead of having one valve leading to the one below.....
OD

OD,

I think that Myles' improved idea was NOT to have a valve lead to the one below.

Instead, the liquid is drained from the disabled plate, through its opened valve, and returned to the column just below said disabled plate. Same as lifting a drain plug.

Each plate can thus be disabled independently.

squidd

[Kerry]

Hello guys,

I've been thinking about separator plate design. After a few days I think I have figured out how to make a bubble cap by profile cutting a star and bending the arms over to form a cap and in the separation plate having slots cut that would accept the point of the arms! This increases the practicality of manufacture. But then I was thinking about the practicality of running a bubble cap. What happens when a run is over? There is a whole bunch of liquid mix left in the trays... how is this cleaned out... by flushing? The real question I have is can the mix be left in the column until the next time it is charged up? The only thing I could think of to drain the waste of a bubble cap was to have a trough setup under the down tube which then would penetrate the side of the column with a valve. I am assuming all of this isn't a problem for a perforated plate as the liquid mix left should just drain to the bottom... is that the case?

Comments welcome.

Edit:


Above is my perforation pattern for a 4" column. I have made the holes 1.7mm, which gives 9.6% opening, but I am thinking to go to a 1.9mm hole giving an 11.9% opening. Some of you are running much less opening, some much more. I do see a trend around 18% opening - is that just what "works"?

[Austin Nichols]

Thanks Austin
I'll start ringing around tomorrow.
Regards

If you get stuck I have a 200mm piece spare you could make a dephlag out of, should keep you busy until you find a good length for your column, if you got a 300mm bit of 2 inch I'd consider a swap.

In regards to the dephlag, I'm building a couple of dephlags now, one is a shotgun, the other is a 3/8 double helix coil inside a 4" housing connecting via tri camps.... which way do you think you will go?

Cheers.

[Kentucky shinner]

Hello guys,

I've been thinking about separator plate design. After a few days I think I have figured out how to make a bubble cap by profile cutting a star and bending the arms over to form a cap and in the separation plate having slots cut that would accept the point of the arms! This increases the practicality of manufacture. But then I was thinking about the practicality of running a bubble cap. What happens when a run is over? There is a whole bunch of liquid mix left in the trays... how is this cleaned out... by flushing? The real question I have is can the mix be left in the column until the next time it is charged up? The only thing I could think of to drain the waste of a bubble cap was to have a trough setup under the down tube which then would penetrate the side of the column with a valve. I am assuming all of this isn't a problem for a perforated plate as the liquid mix left should just drain to the bottom... is that the case?

Comments welcome.

Edit:


Above is my perforation pattern for a 4" column. I have made the holes 1.7mm, which gives 9.6% opening, but I am thinking to go to a 1.9mm hole giving an 11.9% opening. Some of you are running much less opening, some much more. I do see a trend around 18% opening - is that just what "works"?

Yes the perforated plates just drain themselves when the run is finished. Just give a good flush with water while its hot and put it away. that is all I do.
KS

[Thorn_veritas]

+1 on ks comments on perf plates.

But on bubble caps I think what people are doin for draining is a small hole ie 1mm in the center of the plate to drain off product after run. After the plate fills the hole wont drain product during run because because of rising vapour. But no vapor and it drains. Easy cough cough

Im not quite sure were i read it but I think it was a post by rednose.

[Kiwi-lembic]

Hi there .with all the plate designs coming along so far and the different runs that are being done and proven run results .could someone advise what the ultimate plate thickness .% of holes plate distance apart size of downcomers etc .

Would it be too much different if these plates were in a tapered neck like the pic of my still design from say 5 1/2 inch at the bottom tapering down to 3 1/2 inch at the top of the neck just before the goose neck .Could this neck reduction be even more benificial to rising vapours ....appreciate ideas out there -Kiwi-l

[exon]

I know nothing

Whatever quality of plate operation could be attributed to vapor speed would be changing if the column itself were tapered.
An excellent opportunity to employ sight glasses for observation.
exon

[prdbrissy]

Thanks Austin
I'll start ringing around tomorrow.
Regards

If you get stuck I have a 200mm piece spare you could make a dephlag out of, should keep you busy until you find a good length for your column, if you got a 300mm bit of 2 inch I'd consider a swap.

In regards to the dephlag, I'm building a couple of dephlags now, one is a shotgun, the other is a 3/8 double helix coil inside a 4" housing connecting via tri camps.... which way do you think you will go?

Cheers.

my dephlag is going to be a shotgun with 9 x 3/4 tubes. It is fitted with tri-clover clamps top and bottom.The 4"tube needs to be about 300 long because it will sit on the top plate and has to carry the sight glass for that plate.

Regards