uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

[Titus-a-fishus]

Titus, I havn't gone back and read all your posts, but what are you using for corn?? May have been kiln dried?? or just a crappy corn with no flavor??
I have run off UJSSM at 95% and could still taste too much corn for me to call it neutral. Try a different source for your corn. Maybe that will help??

Thanks for that Fastill, you just might be right.
Have spoken to a mate that lives in a corn growing area and he says we grow maize not corn.
Similar but not as much corn flavour..... possibly another issue.
Will try a different supplier and see what happens.

Just as an after note,
I am happy with the neutral it is currently producing as it is far superior to any of the other recipes I've tried.
Am oaking some of this and will see what happens.

I'm chasing the corn flavour that I got in the very first wash as it was delicious.

TAF

[TexasReflux]

Ok, I will admit to cheating a little.

I ran my 35 gallons over the last few days, and now have 5+ gallons to do a spirit run with. But I took off about 400ML of product from the hearts off each run, and saved them for a little sampling. I know recycle the first batch, but I have to say this is a great tasting product.

Few days in and out of the freezer with a little oak, and I am impressed. By my 4th generation and gallons and gallons of product, I will be a very happy guy.

Thanks UJ.

[blind drunk]

But I took off about 400ML of product from the hearts off each run, and saved them for a little sampling.

That's easy to do. I call it the distiller's share. The angels get all the heads and the other volatiles

[TexasReflux]

I like that, the distillers share... Gotta get something for those long nights of work I guess. The angels can have all the heads/tails they want!

Cant wait to clean this up.

[mash rookie]

I like that, the distillers share... Gotta get something for those long nights of work I guess. The angels can have all the heads/tails they want!

Cant wait to clean this up.

TexasReflux

You will find that with each generation the tails keep getting better and better. A ton of flavor there. I find myself adding more tails to my blend with each generation before oaking. I LOVE my UJSSM !!

[TexasReflux]

On generation 2, and it is slowing down nicely.

My first wash was bitter at the end (I hear that's good) and I tasted the 2nd generation tonight and it is getting bitter but has a nice sour taste developing. Got to say very happy...

I like this wash.

[waylyn]

Just on my second batch, stopped the puking by increasing the water flow, no probs at all, how much spirit would I expect from 20 ltrs of wash an average?

[Titus-a-fishus]

Ran a fifth generation UJ two days ago and still no flavour.
Even had some oats and wheat in this run.
Convinced it is the maize ... not corn that is the problem.
Also ran a first gen maize only to compare.... same result. no flavour at all.

Good news is that I now can make neutral without a reflux - by using UJSSM recipe using a maize instead of corn.
The things you find out by mistake

Going to scrap the lot and find some corn to ferment.
I will eventually get a nice corn flavoured likker.


Cheers
TAF

[TexasReflux]

TAF,

New to the ujssm, but I am finishing up my second generation run now and have noticed a noticeable drop in the corn flavor.

Do you think we are not replacing enough corn for each generation?

Still good, but getting less corn flavor...

[Titus-a-fishus]

Hi TexasReflux
Not sure as I replaced the first batch of corn entirely because I didn't read the instructions properly.
Used the yeast bed of course.
Even with that batch I didn't get a good taste of corn, off the still.

Did a first generation 12 ltr batch and got no flavour either, so the corn has to have something to do with it.

Have decided to try 1kg of frozen corn kernels with this current batch.
Will let this one run until next weekend and see what happens.

I'm convinced that the corn I am using is part of the problem
The oats and wheat didn't add any flavour either.

Cheers
TAF

[blind drunk]

Hey Titus, have you been aging any of your UJSSM? You should be getting some flavor, especially with the oats and wheat added. It might need some time on toasted/charred oak or maple or both. I noticed time and wood can make flavors appear even when they seem absent from the outset.

Hope this isn't a presumptuous question ...

Btw, barley malt could put your UJSSM over the edge, flavor wise.

Good luck.

[Titus-a-fishus]

Hey BD
Any help, hints or tips are appreciated
Have been oaking some UJSSM for about a month
Can't say that there is any real corn flavour yet.

The first one I did has plenty of corn flavour (6weeks oaking) and is nearly all gone
But none of the ones that followed have any.

As said, will try with frozen corn kernels that I have added already to the last ferment (that is still a week off finished).
Will see what happens.

Thanks for the interest and help

Still have to say - I am very happy with the UJSSM recipe and will be using it for a long time to come.
Just need to tweek what I am doing to get the corn flavour.

Cheers
TAF

[Smokehouse Shiner]

Say TaF, i'm under the impression that what you call maize and what we call corn over here are the same grain. Over here it would be commonly reffered to as "field corn" as opposed to sweet corn. Can't explain the lack of flavor in your spirits save for posing the question that are you potstilling this UJSM? Sorry if you've given this info. I didn't go very far back in the thread. Other than that I would suggest that if you want more grain flavor, then cook the grains before you start the wash. No need for 100% gelatinization like for an all grain mash. Just hold the corn/maize/oats/barley/rye or whatever you choose at 170-200F by whatever means necessary for 30 minutes to an hour and it should release plenty of grainy goodness.

[Titus-a-fishus]

Say TaF, i'm under the impression that what you call maize and what we call corn over here are the same grain. Over here it would be commonly reffered to as "field corn" as opposed to sweet corn.
Sounds about right

Can't explain the lack of flavor in your spirits save for posing the question that are you potstilling this UJSM? Sorry if you've given this info. I didn't go very far back in the thread.
Yep potstilling

Other than that I would suggest that if you want more grain flavor, then cook the grains before you start the wash. No need for 100% gelatinization like for an all grain mash. Just hold the corn/maize/oats/barley/rye or whatever you choose at 170-200F by whatever means necessary for 30 minutes to an hour and it should release plenty of grainy goodness.
Did that with the last all UJSSM and still got the same results ..... no flavour.
This is why I am trying frozen sweet corn this time.
Next time will try a different supplier of cracked corn

Will get there eventually

Cheers
TAF

[guittarmaster]

I"m on my 5th generation of UJSSM. I"m running 15 gallons of it about every two weeks. I really like it. THis being said.

There now is a BUNCH of sediment at the bottom of the bucket. When i stir up the new sugar and backstrap everything get sreally cloudy. Do you guys every take all the corn out and rinse it off? will this accumulation throw off the flavor?

GM

[Dnderhead]

"Do you guys every take all the corn out and rinse it off?"
if you did it stop fermenting, that is the yeast..

[Bull Rider]

Scrape off the top couple of inches of corn, it will be a darker color, and feed it to the birds, your neighbors chickens, the deer or ???

Every generation I would add fresh corn, a couple of pounds, some ground barley, or ground rye. I've changed over to peated and smoked barley now. You'll never run out of possible combination's.


B u l l.

[Titus-a-fishus]

As the others have stated that is your yeast.
Don't wash the yeast bed off or remove it.
That should be adding to the flavour with the backset as well ..... but isn't in my case.

Have tried to get more flavour by adding frozen corn to my last ferment and will be running it in an hour or so.
Will know in a few hours how that goes.

Also, am trying a version of another recipe that I was directed to.
Roasting a kg of sweet corn for about 3 hours at 120C in an oven until it has a nice brown to it.
It smelt divine.
Have made a new ferment with the toasted/roasted sweet corn and a kg of cracked corn and 4.5kg of sugar.
The recipe called for a bunch of other things but I am just trying for a basic corn flavour.
That ferment won't be ready until next week.

On a similar subject .... sugar has gone up. now it's $3.20 for 3kg
Still cheap by my way of thinking.

Cheers
TAF

[waylyn]

Just finished my 3rd run taking on a nice sweet tasting whiskey flavour, my question is (I have read it on here somewhere but can't seem to find it now) I have bought a 13ltr Oak barrel and was wondering how long I would age it, I seem to remember something like 2 months per 4lts but wouldn't swear to it.

Don't know if it's the spirit or my age that's messing my memory

[Titus-a-fishus]

I have bought a 13ltr Oak barrel and was wondering how long I would age it, I seem to remember something like 2 months per 4lts but wouldn't swear to it.

Don't know if it's the spirit or my age that's messing my memory

30-40 days for each 4ltrs/or 1gal of spirit.
From what I've read if you use 55% abv spirit you will get good flavour and it will age well.
The recomendations have been for a 20ltr barrel or larger.
Also the blokes that know say keep tasting as a new barrel will flavour up and over oak quickly.
I'm all jealous now,,,,, got to wait until next year for my barrel (anniversary present)


Cheers
TAF

[waylyn]

Thanks Titus-a-fishus,

I have a second hand Barrel and cant wait to try it, I will have to wait for my next batch to have enough for the 13 ltrs @ 55%

[el-zonko]

Hope I can ask a question on the end of this long thread.

How do you know how much grain to take off when going to the next generation of fermentation?

Do I understand correctly that it's just the "spent grains"? And that the only ones that are spent are the ones that float?

Last time round, none of the grains in my tub were floating.

But since I guessed that most the flavour would be gone out of them, I removed about a quarter of them and added a whole new lot. That was wrong, I know. Now more than a quarter volume of my bucket is grains! Don't suppose it will hurt though.

*******


On another subject, I wonder too if I will suffer lack of flavour. I have been using Chinese grown corn and I know the fresh product at least is tasteless, sticky and very starchy.

I could get some quality imported American corn, I know a popcorn supplier, but the price is about 4x the local stuff.

[whiskymonster]

is poppin corn the same?

i can get that from the cash n carry.

[guittarmaster]

is poppin corn the same?

i can get that from the cash n carry.

I would think not. I often eat popcorn, and have been doing a bunch of UJSSM with feed corn... they neither look, smell, now taste the same. Beside..... the cost you will spend on getting enough popping corn you could buy a 50lb bag of cracked corn form the feed store.


I comment on the floaters.... What i have done thus far, and seems to work, happens after the siphoning of the mash.... but before adding back-strap and most of the water....

I'll add 1.5 gallon or so of water... enough to cover the corn at the bottom with about 3 inches of water. I will then add half of the sugar and stir it up really well. It all dissolve, but it does something else......The SG becomes so high that suddenly a good portion or corn will now float. I remove this and add equal portion back into it. I wanna say i read in this thread that the spent corn floats so by bumping the SG so high it helps to separate them even more.

GM

[el-zonko]

is poppin corn the same?

i can get that from the cash n carry.

I would think not. I often eat popcorn, and have been doing a bunch of UJSSM with feed corn... they neither look, smell, now taste the same. Beside..... the cost you will spend on getting enough popping corn you could buy a 50lb bag of cracked corn form the feed store.


I comment on the floaters.... What i have done thus far, and seems to work, happens after the siphoning of the mash.... but before adding back-strap and most of the water....

I'll add 1.5 gallon or so of water... enough to cover the corn at the bottom with about 3 inches of water. I will then add half of the sugar and stir it up really well. It all dissolve, but it does something else......The SG becomes so high that suddenly a good portion or corn will now float. I remove this and add equal portion back into it. I wanna say i read in this thread that the spent corn floats so by bumping the SG so high it helps to separate them even more.

GM

If I get popping corn it will be wholesale (I know the vendor, so it's mates' rates). Chinese corn is more like cattle feed really. But since many people here actually use cattle feed, it may not be so bad after all.

Thanks for the advice on raising the sg that way to pick out the spent corn.

[whiskymonster]

is poppin corn the same?

i can get that from the cash n carry.

I would think not. I often eat popcorn, and have been doing a bunch of UJSSM with feed corn... they neither look, smell, now taste the same. Beside..... the cost you will spend on getting enough popping corn you could buy a 50lb bag of cracked corn form the feed store.

GM

unfortunately though, im a city boy and feed stores are few and far between!

limited to the supermarkets and the cash n carry.

ah well. ill stick to sugar and neutral for the time being.

cheers anyway!

j

[rad14701]

Popping corn has been tried and does not work as well as good old fashioned dent corn... Do a site search for popcorn, bypassing references to Popcorn Sutton...

[whiskymonster]

it was bypassing the references to mr sutton that causes me to ask!

600 odd hits, and once i got to page 5 i gave up.

ah well.

ill stick to cornflakes n allbran

[WalkingWolf]

unfortunately though, im a city boy and feed stores are few and far between!
limited to the supermarkets and the cash n carry.
ah well. ill stick to sugar and neutral for the time being.
cheers anyway!
j

Here is a link to the grains available from Kentucky Shinner. He sells them in a 5lb bag. You could have a couple of 5 pound bags mailed right to your door. You could easily get 5 runs before any grain needs to be changed and then it would only be a little bit. With 2 bags I'd venture to say you could easily get 20 or more ferments.

http://www.hillbillystills.com/category_s/68.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[PJD]

I just ran my first generation UJSM. WOW! This is wonderful stuff. I started it in the fermenter that held DWWG and used one gallon of back set from the DWWG. I simply added 10 pounds of cracked corn and 10 pounds of sugar. It fermented dry in about 5 days and when I ran it I got about 3 Liters of 150 proof with loads of great corn flavor. I was planning to put the entire first generation back into the second run but now I think I will only re-run the tails.
Thanks so much for this recipe>